A Desert Called Peace

[Grimm Reaper]

Faeelin, nah, they have plenty of decent stuff too. Also, it serves a useful purpose. I saw the sample chapters and thereby saved myself the cost of the book.

Technically I saw about three and a half pages in chapter one and thereby decided to invest elsewhere but...

 

[Chris]

Question: How typical is this of the stuff Baen publishes?

A State of Dis. is pretty much unique. The only thing close to it is 'The General's President' which was years old and something of a precursor to Tom Clancy's Exceutive Orders.

Chris

 

[Leo Caesius]

Here we go, dredged up from the original Usenet discussion I remember from four years ago... sample chapters for your amusement.

For the Republicans, however, the Democratic dream was a nightmare: thought control through linguistic control,​

"Death Tax," "Personal Accounts," "Family Values," "Freedom Fries," and of course, "Tranzis..."

micromanagement of the economy by those least suited to economic power,​

The CEO President (and the Enron Presidency), corporate welfare, no-bid government contracts...

social engineering under the aegis of the most doctrinaire of the social engineers,​

Faith-Based Funding, Abstinence Education, No Child Left Behind...

disarmament of the population and the creation of a police state to rival that of Stalin or Hitler, at least in its scope if not by design in its evil.​

I wonder how Kratman feels when the far left compares Bush to Hitler? He probably doesn't like it very much.

In any case, extraordinary rendition, secret military tribunals, loyalty oaths, free-speech zones, total information awareness, "T.I.P.S.," warrantless wiretapping... man, I could go on and on... Is this guy for real? Has he even been reading the news over the past few years or does he just get all of his information from the World Net Daily?

 

[Archangel Michael]

Question: How typical is this of the stuff Baen publishes?

Not all that often. They do balance it out with Eric Flint, former labor organizer and member of the Socialist Workers Party, though.

 

[Ibn Warraq]

I wonder how Kratman feels when the far left compares Bush to Hitler? He probably doesn't like it very much.​

I honestly would be shocked if he's a fan of Bush. He strikes me as being a right-wing version of all those leftists from the 90s who thought of Clinton as a "pro-choice Republican"(I actually heard someone use that term).

In fact, I remember one of my professors, whose specialty was Labor History called Clinton a "no different from Bush(the first) in any signifigant way" and called Wellstone "a sell-out" whose role was to "co-opt the American Left." He vowed never to vote for a democrat untill he found one who was a "true leftist".

I wonder if my professor still feels that way after nearly eight years of Bush II.

I was actually aware of Kratman before this thread because he PMed me asking me if I was "the Ibn Warraq who wrote Why I am Not a Muslim" so I got a chance to see his website with that particularly intense looking picture. After seeing his website I decided he was either nuts or had a very peculiar sense of humor.

 

[CalBear]

Question: How typical is this of the stuff Baen publishes?

Not very. From what I've seen, unique. As has been pointed out they also publish Eric Flint, who is fairly far to the left as well as a lot of straight sci-fi and fantasy. They do publish John Ringo, of Posleen fame, who is also on the conservative side (less so, if I read it correctly, than Tom Kartman) but has a better sense of humor built into his stories. Ringo puts a lot of his political views into the stories he writes, but it is a good deal less obvious (although he does NOT hide his distain for President Clinton's foreign policy, a point that I can't largely disagree with) and he also clearly created the entire "Kildar" series as a response to the problems he sees in the "War on Terror".

Baen also has, especially under it's founder, Jim Baen, a rather good record of publishing new authors, even to the point of accepting slush directly, even encouraging it. If Chris ever gets the break he so surely deserves, I would give odds that Baen is where it will come from.

 

[Grimm Reaper]

I don't find Flint to be remotely as extreme politically as Kratman. Also, Flint was Jim Baen's chosen successor(Baen passed away recently).

 

[Ian the Admin]

Question: How typical is this of the stuff Baen publishes?

It's extreme even for Baen, which usually publishes military (or perhaps more accurately "militaristic") SF rather than present day political stuff. However, Jim Baen was apparently very right wing himself and *totally* irrational about certain specific issues - especially anything to do with the Clintons, apparently. It's easy to believe Kratman's assertion that this book was written based on a spec from Baen himself, since the core of the book is about Hillary Clinton trying to become a dictator.

 

[Chris]

It's extreme even for Baen, which usually publishes military (or perhaps more accurately "militaristic") SF rather than present day political stuff. However, Jim Baen was apparently very right wing himself and *totally* irrational about certain specific issues - especially anything to do with the Clintons, apparently. It's easy to believe Kratman's assertion that this book was written based on a spec from Baen himself, since the core of the book is about Hillary Clinton trying to become a dictator.

Jim had a bad experience with the Clinton administration (more specifically, the IRS) during the second term. IIRC, the year after 1945 came out, Baen was investigated by the IRS and it happened each year until Bush II took office.

Chris

 

[Redem]

Jim had a bad experience with the Clinton administration (more specifically, the IRS) during the second term. IIRC, the year after 1945 came out, Baen was investigated by the IRS and it happened each year until Bush II took office.

Chris

Well what is the thing that piss more people off than Taxes? getting investigate on there taxes

 

[Ibn Warraq]

Jim had a bad experience with the Clinton administration (more specifically, the IRS) during the second term. IIRC, the year after 1945 came out, Baen was investigated by the IRS and it happened each year until Bush II took office.

Chris

The Clintons, Hillary in particular, had a reputation for being vindictive.

 

[Chris]

The Clintons, Hillary in particular, had a reputation for being vindictive.

<shameless political jab> my, think how many people would be in jail if Bush II was vindictive </shamless political jab>

Chris

 

[Leo Caesius]

It would be interesting to compare how many people were unlawfully detained under both administrations.

Incidentallly, how many people did Hillary have arrested?

 

[Redem]

Incidentallly, how many people did Hillary have arrested?

Hard to know I don't think first lady is part of the executive branch

 

[Archangel Michael]

Hard to know I don't think first lady is part of the executive branch

And neither is the vice-president! Hi-oh!

 

[Amerigo Vespucci]

I'd just like to take the chance to write a little something about tolerance. I'm sure you're all rolling your eyes at this right now, and won't read what comes next, but it's something that needs to be said.

This is Ian's place. He's invited us in here, graciously pays the hosting fees, and administrates the site for us to use. And I thank him for that. But this is the second author we've driven off in a short period of time. You may not agree with something someone's written, but that doesn't mean you need to degenerate the argument into namecalling, whether it's "nutjob," "racist," or some other epithet.

We're not such a large community that we can afford that sort of divisiveness. There's only so many alternate history fans out there, and even fewer that have the time or desire to write something on the subject. When someone writes something you disagree with, feel free to reply, but just do it in a polite manner.

Don't let them get the better of you. Counter irrational arguments with reasonable ones, and know when to just walk away. Everyone's got that one issue one which they refuse to bend, and if you run across it, just leave the thread. If there's something I know will upset me or make me angry, I stay away from it or ignore it entirely. I don't go into the Future History or ASB forums very often for those very reasons.

But that doesn't mean you should discount everything someone says, just because you disagree with them on one issue. You may disagree with someone about the Battle of Waterloo, but find yourself completely in agreement with their views on the Invasion of Russia. Don't throw the baby out with the bath water. Don't resort to name-calling over one issue.

If a person or issue upsets you, ignore it. Even trolls sometimes have something valuable to contribute. You may not feel the gain is worth the potential argument, but I do. Everyone's got something to contribute, and though I might disagree with what's being said, that person has the right to say it -- within proper bounds, of course.

There are only so many Alternate History fans in the world, and even fewer posters on this board. Each one of us has something to contribute. Whether you disagree with that contribution or not is up to you, but don't degenerate a discussion because of that disagreement.

Just my two cents.

 

[Ian the Admin]

But this is the second author we've driven off in a short period of time. You may not agree with something someone's written, but that doesn't mean you need to degenerate the argument into namecalling, whether it's "nutjob," "racist," or some other epithet.

You've got the timeline a little wrong.

Someone called Kratman a "wack job" in reference to one of his books, YOU posted implied agreement with the statement, and then AFTER that Kratman joined the board, posted a very snippy message in response, and proceeded to post unrelated flamebait of the kind that leaves me merely debating whether to warn or kick someone. He then apparently couldn't stand either A) I wasn't going to do anything about someone having slammed him and his books pretty much the same way we'd slam any other author who wrote something nutty, B) I wasn't going to put up with him slamming all left wingers, or C) both, and left immediately in an extreme huff. If that's what it takes to drive someone off, that's entirely their problem.

Stirling wasn't "driven away" by anyone, BTW, he was banned for bigoted comments of a kind that aren't tolerated from anyone on this board.

We're not such a large community that we can afford that sort of divisiveness.

This board regularly has in the range of 1500 posts per day. It actually is a large community as web boards go.

 

[Abdul Hadi Pasha]

OH, OK. I thought it might be some bizzare sexual thing.

Tranzi = Transexuals who advocate the mass-internment of all people who retain their birth-gender.

 

[Susano]

I honestly would be shocked if he's a fan of Bush. He strikes me as being a right-wing version of all those leftists from the 90s who thought of Clinton as a "pro-choice Republican"(I actually heard someone use that term).

With the difference that Clinton was. He definitly was much nearer to the right win of teh Democrats than the left wing. Whereas Bush is pretty much part of the Republican rightwing, so you cant have the equivalent accusations against him.

 

[joea64]

With the difference that Clinton was. He definitly was much nearer to the right win of teh Democrats than the left wing. Whereas Bush is pretty much part of the Republican rightwing, so you cant have the equivalent accusations against him.

It says something interesting, if perhaps not entirely palatable to all here, that Clinton is the only Democrat since Franklin Roosevelt to be elected to the office twice (or more, in FDR's case). (A lot of people forget these days that in 1976, Jimmy Carter, the only Democrat to be elected to the Oval Office between LBJ and Clinton, was widely viewed as being the candidate of conservative Christians - this was, of course, before the Moral Majority. Remember his Playboy interview?)

Something else interesting: the last three Democratic Presidents have all been Southerners. Maybe John Edwards isn't such a long shot as I thought...

-Joe-