Weekly Flag Challenge: Discussion & Entries

[The Professor]

Some good flags guys.
And some are disturbingly close to my idea

Further question - does it have to be de jure rule of the regions, or can the state be based in part of the area but undertake an occupation of the rest? Also, does the entry flag have to be the national flag, or can it be a flag of the nation?

Occupation or de jure does not matter so long as the flag belongs to a state that holds the "Fields and Beaches".
Thus I can accept any flag from your entry (Btw which First Regiment Flag IS your entry?)

 

[TheseusDeuteros]

Some good flags guys.
And some are disturbingly close to my idea

I'm sure the word 'some' doesn't include me here!

 

[xt828]

Which First Regiment Flag IS your entry?

The first one

 

[Which Tyler]

NORMAN & MOLL
Following the death of his father, William the Bastard, in the Battle of Seaford (1066) Richard became Duke of Normandy and turned his attention away from England to expand into territories along the Channel coast. Over the next 300 years Normandy came to control the entire coast from Brittany to Calais, where it met up with the resurgent Lotharingia. Its coastal expansion stopped for the time being, Normandy turned its attention to the hinterland, acquiring a large northern portion of what some scholars are still wont to refer to as Gaul.

The Duke Robert (1307-1327) invaded England in 1311, almost 250 years after the ill-fated attempt of William the Bastard. The invasion was only a partial success, the Normans being generally welcomed by the ‘oppressed’ Anglo-Saxons but bitterly resisted by the Norse rulers and their kinsfolk. It was not until the middle of 1313 that a lasting peace was reached (Treaty of Cambridge) by which Normandy acquired a large portion of southern England..

The disputed succession in Lotharingia became a civil war (1497-1501) Normandy at various times armed and supplied mercenaries to both sides. A weary nation succumbed to the Partition of Lotharingia (1509) by its neighbours, in which Normandy acquired much of western Lotharingia.

Normandy became a kingdom in 1515, its first monarch being Richard I. The kingdom encompassed the continental possessions but its English territory became a principality outside the kingdom. The principality was incorporated into the kingdom in 1701, upon the coronation of Henry IV, at which time the nation became the United Kingdom of Lamanchia.

The flag shown below was adopted in 1714.

 

[Richard IV]

WT, the Woman From La Manch(i)a! I like it and Richard is probably THE best name ever for a King.

 

[Richard IV]

Union de la Côte / Unie van de Kust

Following 3 disastrous European wars in the first 50 years of the 20th century, the EW3 Allies (principally USUK, Nordic Union, Russian League) decided to recast many of the nations of western and central Europe. The Paris-Berlin Axis had conquered much of Europe during WW3 and left it in ruins. The Chef de l’Etat De Gaulle in his refusal to consider surrender had laid utter waste to much of France; the condition of Germany and the Low Countries was little better. The victorious Allies were determined to prevent a repetition of French and/or German aggression and the proposals originated by Commander Dennis Wheatley (USUKAF), who had served on the Federal Planning Staff during EW3, for ‘redrawing the map’ were in large part accepted and implemented.

The self-governing “Union de la Côte / Unie van de Kust” was created from Allied Occupation Area E-W1 on 1st January 1956 and achieved full independence 4 years later. It comprises an area from Brittany to Flanders, is a republic and has 5 autonomous Regions. The national flag has 5 stripes, 3 white and 2 black, commemorating the markings used by the Allied forces in the invasion of Europe (1948) plus a red canton bearing a bi-coloured lion inspired by the heraldic lions of Normandy and Flanders.


National Flag (Competition entry)

Presidential Standard

Flag of the Regions :

Brittany

Flanders

Normandy

Picardy

Seine-Maritime

 

[The Professor]

NORMAN & MOLL
~SNIP~

Fairly nice, though I'd sugges both lions be passant-guardant

 

[titulus regius]

Fairly nice, though I'd sugges both lions be passant-guardant

I think that keeping the Normandy and Flanders lions in their traditional stances is absolutely appropriate.

Although I don't like fussy, heraldically laden flags, given the traditions of this board I have to say very nice, Which Tyler!

 

[titulus regius]

SOCIETY 11

Arising from the ashes the Yaygınimha conflict, Society 11 of the European Syndicalist Bond was created from the northern third of France, the west of Belgium and a strip of the coast of the Netherlands. Its capital is Pougetville (formerly known as Le Havre). In its 42 year history it has provided two Chairman of the European Central Syndicate including the current incumbent Marcel La Plume.

 

[The Professor]

I think that keeping the Normandy and Flanders lions in their traditional stances is absolutely appropriate.

Although I don't like fussy, heraldically laden flags, given the traditions of this board I have to say very nice, Which Tyler!

Except the Flanders Lion is Black on Gold and only arose in OTL in the 1200s. Since that's later than WT's POD...

Anyways my entry to come shortly.

 

[The Professor]

The current flag of Picardy derives from the banner of William IV of England & Ireland while he was the Red Prince of Picardy [1] and heir to the thrones of both England and Ireland.
The Red Prince’s banner was based on that of his uncle Eustace, Duke of Cornwall, Duke of Normandy, Count of Flanders, the Black Prince [of Picardy]; said banner flown during his campaign in Brittany to claim the Ducal Crown by right of wife [2]. Eustace’s death made the underage William heir presumptive to England, being the only son of Eustace’s sister Emma and King William III of Ireland, and led to the union of the crowns since King Eustace I of England created his 3rd son William King of Ireland [3].
William’s banner may also be considered to be the first merging of the English Red Cross of St George with the Irish Gold Cross of St Patrick [4] as it was later in William IV’s reign that the various Dual Monarchy flags are first seen, though flag most common in Normandy-Flanders (or Picardy as it became known) was the quartered crosses.
Variants of the Red Prince Flag surfaced during the occupation by the Burgundian Empire until the AngloIrish-Danian Coalition restored Picardy to the Regency.
A centred version of the flag served as official flag of the region until its appropriation by the Zirconists as the flag of the Zirconist Protectorate of Picardy. Members of the Resistance used a Danian-style [5] Red Prince Flag; this became the Regional Flag after liberation and remained so when the Region voted to remain part of a newly federalised restored Regency – the United Realms – as the Lieutenant State of Picardy.
The flag’s asymmetry in contrast to the other Lieutenant States is a strong reminder of the region’s independent character.

[1] so called due to his flaming red hair
[2] Eleanor daughter of Duke William of Brittany
[3] Eustace’s 1st son Henry died shortly after being made co-Duke of Normandy; his 2nd became Stephen I of England; his 4th became Eustace I of the Latin Roman Empire
[4] often also bearing 4 crowns
[5] OTL Nordic as Sweden-Norway uses saltires TTL

EDIT: a brief view of William IV's descent

 

[titulus regius]

Except the Flanders Lion is Black on Gold and only arose in OTL in the 1200s. Since that's later than WT's POD...

I was referring to the lions' stance not their colour and I cannot find a stated POD in Which Tyler's narrative, but the absorption of the Flanders area would appear to have occurred well after your date of 'the 1200s', I quote:
"The disputed succession in Lotharingia became a civil war (1497-1501) Normandy at various times armed and supplied mercenaries to both sides. A weary nation succumbed to the Partition of Lotharingia (1509) by its neighbours, in which Normandy acquired much of western Lotharingia."

So there would be plenty of time for that Lion to have appeared in WT's timeline.

 

[The Professor]

I was referring to the lions' stance not their colour and I cannot find a stated POD in Which Tyler's narrative, but the absorption of the Flanders area would appear to have occurred well after your date of 'the 1200s', I quote:
"The disputed succession in Lotharingia became a civil war (1497-1501) Normandy at various times armed and supplied mercenaries to both sides. A weary nation succumbed to the Partition of Lotharingia (1509) by its neighbours, in which Normandy acquired much of western Lotharingia."

So there would be plenty of time for that Lion to have appeared in WT's timeline.

Well the POD is in the first line: "Following the death of his father, William the Bastard, in the Battle of Seaford (1066)"
However this is rendered moot by the fact that the fact that the lower lion is in fact that of Brabant formerly Nether/Lower Lorraine (aka Duchy of Lothier) as it still was at the time.
It's unclear whether Duke Godfrey near the time of the POD used the Landgrave of Brabant Gold Lion on Black or the County of Leuven White Bar On Red but we can infer that in TTL his line used the lion and restored Lower Lorraine in the time following the POD and its absorption into Greater Normandy
Note Flanders is not part of Lower Lorraine as part of the HRE but part of France:

Since early arms did not really distinguish passant and rampant lions I just thought it'd look nice on the flag

 

[Which Tyler]

Oooh, two men fighting (sort of, LOL) over me, I am so flattered. But let us call it off boys, ok?

Prof, although my first sentence refers to 1066, that year was not the POD I had in mind, it was actually a POD resulting from a different Treaty of Verdun in 843 under which Lotharingia ended up with more territory than in OTL.

TR, the Prof has a very good point about that lion. TBH I simply thought it looked better in gold against the black background ... but my excuse could be that, as the former conqueror and now the major player in Lamanchia, Normandy wanted both lions to be the same colour.

But thanks to both of you for the interest in my humble entry.

xxx

 

[The Professor]

Oooh, two men fighting (sort of, LOL) over me, I am so flattered. But let us call it off boys, ok?

Prof, although my first sentence refers to 1066, that year was not the POD I had in mind, it was actually a POD resulting from a different Treaty of Verdun in 843 under which Lotharingia ended up with more territory than in OTL.

TR, the Prof has a very good point about that lion. TBH I simply thought it looked better in gold against the black background ... but my excuse could be that, as the former conqueror and now the major player in Lamanchia, Normandy wanted both lions to be the same colour.

But thanks to both of you for the interest in my humble entry.

xxx

Sometimes we get a little too testeroney

 

[xt828]

The Professor, I see that you have royal houses of Fitzstephen and Fitzwilliam, but IIRC the Fitz indicated acknowledged illegitimate birth, which usually precluded any sort of inheritance or royal marriage. Was this intended?

 

[The Professor]

The Professor, I see that you have royal houses of Fitzstephen and Fitzwilliam, but IIRC the Fitz indicated acknowledged illegitimate birth, which usually precluded any sort of inheritance or royal marriage. Was this intended?

"Fitz" is a norman patronymic and was often used after the Conquest for norman nobles - eg Henry II was known as FitzEmpress - or especially following the Conquest of Ireland to translate Gaelic "mac".
It was only later (perhaps as early as the Lancasters but definitely post Tudor) to indicate acknowledged royal illegitimates.
Here I've used it to indicate the royal cadet branches of Blois in England and Ireland.
Hope that helps

 

[xt828]

"Fitz" is a norman patronymic and was often used after the Conquest for norman nobles - eg Henry II was known as FitzEmpress - or especially following the Conquest of Ireland to translate Gaelic "mac".
It was only later (perhaps as early as the Lancasters but definitely post Tudor) to indicate acknowledged royal illegitimates.
Here I've used it to indicate the royal cadet branches of Blois in England and Ireland.
Hope that helps

Interesting - I've only encountered it as used for illegitimates - didn't Henry VIII have a couple of FitzHenrys running around by his various mistresses?

 

[TheseusDeuteros]

Here's the new challenge!

 

[autonomousoblast]

Flag Challenge 83

Democratic Republic ofJutland

The rye ear, pen and hammer represent the farmers, intellectuals and industrial workers respectively. The white-blue-white strip at the bottom are the colours inspired from the Finns' flag but instead reinterpreted by the regime to represent sacrifice and a new beginning for white and blue representing the waters surrounding the peninsula and their important position in controlling trade in the region.


Presidential Standard

Kingdom of Denmark

The flag was designed by the nationalist regime (that still recognized the monarch) that was highly irredentist and placed a claim on the socialist Jutlanders. The symbol of the regime were three bearded-axes, which represented the Viking past.

Tsardom of Smolensk

This flag was adopted after constitutional reforms.

Kola Republic

A breakaway state from the earlier Kingdom of Finland. They lay a claim to the old Finnish realms, now controlled by the socialists. They have come under influence of both leftists and Novgorod, whom both they hate. The flag was based on the Nordic cross pattern that old Finnish flag followed. The symbol defacing the cross was claimed to be an 'ancient Finnish symbol', it is reportedly a stylized axe of Ukko.

Principality of Ingria

An orthodox state laid claim to by the two Finlands in the name of Pan-Fennicism.

Kingdom of Norway

Personal union under the French crown. The flag of the union was chosen to be one that amalgamated the Merchant flag of France and the Nordic-cross flag of Norway charged with coat of arms. Norwegians tended to use the earlier Nordic-cross flag, especially ones with nationalist inclination.