Well some people are rooting for a side
Just tbc not me. I am completely 50/50.
Last edited:
偉大な恐ろしい戦争: A more bloody and impactful Boshin War
- Thread starter IntellectuallyHonestRhino
- Start date
Well some people are rooting for a side
Just tbc not me. I am completely 50/50.
A Repentant Heretic
Banned
In Fall of the Samurai, you can declare yourself an independent republic based on Ezo Republic.
It is, however, hard to win with Republic because:
1) You can no longer use Shinsengumi and Ishin-Shishi.
2) Everyone will hate you, including your subjects.
3) Republican high-tier units are somewhat lackluster compared to high-tier Imperial or Shogunate units.
You are an absolute monarchy monarchist or constitutional monarchy monarchist? Which monarchy in the world are you especially fond of?
I am glad you recognize the honor of Imperial household
I mean, I believe constitutional monarchy is inevitable in monarchies that survive so I don't mind suffering under an absolute one in this case especially given Japan's OTL trajectory and Taisho and all that.
I'm fond of all monarchies tbh, but especially "mine" in the House of Windsor.
I am seeing a lot of division in peoples opinion on who is winning the war, and I take that as a great compliment as I am creating a compelling and plausible TL that is not boring and wank. But I am also curious to why people chose said opinions. I am curious to what different readers value, what they predict, and what in general leads to this almost equal division.
Are both factions opposed to foreigners? I know the Imperials are, or at least supposed to be, but I vaguely remember someone saying that the Shogunate is more welcoming.
Because in game,high tier units are expeditionary forces sent by France,Britain or the US.Factions allied with the Shogunate gets to recruit French marines and French ironclads.Factions allied with the Imperials get to recruit British marines and British ironclads.While factions that choose to be a republic gets to recruit US marines and US ironclads.The British has the best ironclads while the French has the best marines.The US however,gives you the worst marines and ironclads.Somebody has strong opinions
Realpolitik explains everything. The Japanese people hate foreigners, yet both factions need their weapons.
Foreign involvement
American foreign policy:
The United States public, weary of war, desired peace above most things. The only thing above peace was economic expansion of the United States. Desperate to cement the Democratic party's surprisingly newfound popularity, President Seymour crafted a strategy to fit both. President Seymour gave a critical speech to Congress detailed "The New Age of War", which stated that "the civilized nations of the world will no more engage in brutal absolute war, but instead provide allies in the uncivilized world with the arms, experience, and finances to wage war that benefit both groups".
After mulling over the extent to support the Shogunate (America could not afford to back the loser), President Seymour, with congressional approval, sent an American delegation to Edo, with two special attendees. One of them was Confederate (and now American) General Joseph Eggleston Johnston. Craving to win a war again (as well as financial difficulties. He found it difficult to make a proper living back home), he was filled with noted gusto. Accompanying him was Union war hero General William Tecumseh Sherman. German Sherman originally did not want to go overseas, bit with the pleading of his good friend Johnston as well as President Seymour (who wanted a Northern Republican and a Southern Democrat to represent a unified America). Shogun Yoshinobu gratefully embraced the two generals, and during the welcoming dinner tales of the civil war were discussed plenty.
(Drawing of the American delegation by the New York Times, 1868.)
Of a United Germany and a Divided Japan:
Germany's and perhaps Europe's greatest statesman of the time, Otto von Bismarck, desired a unified Germany above everything else. The Northern German Confederation already ruled a majority of Deutschland, yet Southern Germany was still under independent small kingdoms form the HRE days. But Bismarck had a plan. He always had a plan. He decided to leverage the political situation in Japan by sending a delegation from the NGF to Kyoto, signaling Prussian support for the Imperial cause. He then signaled to the British that they had an important common interest, one where they also clashed with the French. Napoleon the III was a brash man, a man of bravado, one who preferred public spectacle over strategic long term low morale policies, yet with his whole cabinet begging him to not risk war with both the British and the Germans, the Emperor reluctantly agreed to Bismark's demands of letting go claims to Southern Germany and recognize a union. But Emperor Bonaparte was not to be manipulated. While brash, he was no fool, and after much counsel, he added a caveat to Bismark's treaty which demanded that the Germans give up all claims to Alsace-Lorraine. Unbeknownst to Bismarck, Napoleon the III communicated this to the British first, who steadily agreed, as they did not want the French nor the Germans to gain too much power. A France and Germany that cancelled each other out was the best position for Britain. After communicating their thoughts to Bismarck, Bismarck reluctantly agreed, and singed the Treaty of Munich. In the end, the British had maintained continental stability, the French had kept their pride, and without a shed of blood, the German nation was born.
.svg/1222px-German_Empire_-_Alsace_Lorraine_(1871).svg.png)
(Map of Central Europe, 1868. White shows territory of the German Empire, and red formerly claimed territory by the German Empire*)
*The German Empire was officially recognized twenty hours before claims of Alsace-Lorraine were dropped, so in technicality it was the German Empire that dropped the claim.
The United States public, weary of war, desired peace above most things. The only thing above peace was economic expansion of the United States. Desperate to cement the Democratic party's surprisingly newfound popularity, President Seymour crafted a strategy to fit both. President Seymour gave a critical speech to Congress detailed "The New Age of War", which stated that "the civilized nations of the world will no more engage in brutal absolute war, but instead provide allies in the uncivilized world with the arms, experience, and finances to wage war that benefit both groups".
After mulling over the extent to support the Shogunate (America could not afford to back the loser), President Seymour, with congressional approval, sent an American delegation to Edo, with two special attendees. One of them was Confederate (and now American) General Joseph Eggleston Johnston. Craving to win a war again (as well as financial difficulties. He found it difficult to make a proper living back home), he was filled with noted gusto. Accompanying him was Union war hero General William Tecumseh Sherman. German Sherman originally did not want to go overseas, bit with the pleading of his good friend Johnston as well as President Seymour (who wanted a Northern Republican and a Southern Democrat to represent a unified America). Shogun Yoshinobu gratefully embraced the two generals, and during the welcoming dinner tales of the civil war were discussed plenty.
(Drawing of the American delegation by the New York Times, 1868.)
Of a United Germany and a Divided Japan:
Germany's and perhaps Europe's greatest statesman of the time, Otto von Bismarck, desired a unified Germany above everything else. The Northern German Confederation already ruled a majority of Deutschland, yet Southern Germany was still under independent small kingdoms form the HRE days. But Bismarck had a plan. He always had a plan. He decided to leverage the political situation in Japan by sending a delegation from the NGF to Kyoto, signaling Prussian support for the Imperial cause. He then signaled to the British that they had an important common interest, one where they also clashed with the French. Napoleon the III was a brash man, a man of bravado, one who preferred public spectacle over strategic long term low morale policies, yet with his whole cabinet begging him to not risk war with both the British and the Germans, the Emperor reluctantly agreed to Bismark's demands of letting go claims to Southern Germany and recognize a union. But Emperor Bonaparte was not to be manipulated. While brash, he was no fool, and after much counsel, he added a caveat to Bismark's treaty which demanded that the Germans give up all claims to Alsace-Lorraine. Unbeknownst to Bismarck, Napoleon the III communicated this to the British first, who steadily agreed, as they did not want the French nor the Germans to gain too much power. A France and Germany that cancelled each other out was the best position for Britain. After communicating their thoughts to Bismarck, Bismarck reluctantly agreed, and singed the Treaty of Munich. In the end, the British had maintained continental stability, the French had kept their pride, and without a shed of blood, the German nation was born.
(Map of Central Europe, 1868. White shows territory of the German Empire, and red formerly claimed territory by the German Empire*)
*The German Empire was officially recognized twenty hours before claims of Alsace-Lorraine were dropped, so in technicality it was the German Empire that dropped the claim.
Last edited:
The Sakhalin dispute:
Ever since the late 1700's where the Russians forced a delegation upon the Tokugawa Shogunate, tensions over the East Pacific territories were always high. Countless disputes almost always led to war, and if it were not for the Crimean war, the Russians most likely would have forced war over the unwavering Shogunate. Yet recent conflicts made strange bedfellows. With Britain and Germany coming closer together, the fear of Berlin's might rapidly increased. Especially without any damage from war, Germany was especially terrifying. Thus, the only logical steps were to:
a) not get involved directly in a war.
b) create an alliance with the French.
Not wishing to risk a war they would certainly lose, the Russians (and Shogunate) wished to ease up relations. Russia desired mostly greater access to the Pacific as well as a land connection to Manchuria, while the Shogunate mostly wanted more territory up north and to protect their northern settlers, so an agreement to please both sides most ardent needs were met. Both sides signed the Treaty of Palana, which had the Shogunate (Russia did not recognize the Imperial Yamato Government) remove its claims on Northern Sakhalin, as well as recognize whole Kuril island chain as sovereign Russian territory; in exchange, the Russians recognized Southern Sakhalin as Japanese (Bakufu) territory. The Tokugawa Shogunate named their section of the island Karafuto. A Russian delegation was sent to Edo, and ties were strengthened. Both sides celebrated at Edo and at the northernmost border with fabulous feasts, with Sake and Vodka pouring down attendees throats galore.
(Map of Sakhalin/Karafuto island, 1868. Marked in red is Karafuto province, a province of the Tokugawa Bakufu. The Tokugawa territory was administered both directly by the Tokugawa clan, as well as by loyal clans such as the Matsumae, Date, Uesugi and Satake clans. Pockets of Karafuto were divided up by these different clans, primarily for the purposes of appointing retainers.)
Ever since the late 1700's where the Russians forced a delegation upon the Tokugawa Shogunate, tensions over the East Pacific territories were always high. Countless disputes almost always led to war, and if it were not for the Crimean war, the Russians most likely would have forced war over the unwavering Shogunate. Yet recent conflicts made strange bedfellows. With Britain and Germany coming closer together, the fear of Berlin's might rapidly increased. Especially without any damage from war, Germany was especially terrifying. Thus, the only logical steps were to:
a) not get involved directly in a war.
b) create an alliance with the French.
Not wishing to risk a war they would certainly lose, the Russians (and Shogunate) wished to ease up relations. Russia desired mostly greater access to the Pacific as well as a land connection to Manchuria, while the Shogunate mostly wanted more territory up north and to protect their northern settlers, so an agreement to please both sides most ardent needs were met. Both sides signed the Treaty of Palana, which had the Shogunate (Russia did not recognize the Imperial Yamato Government) remove its claims on Northern Sakhalin, as well as recognize whole Kuril island chain as sovereign Russian territory; in exchange, the Russians recognized Southern Sakhalin as Japanese (Bakufu) territory. The Tokugawa Shogunate named their section of the island Karafuto. A Russian delegation was sent to Edo, and ties were strengthened. Both sides celebrated at Edo and at the northernmost border with fabulous feasts, with Sake and Vodka pouring down attendees throats galore.
(Map of Sakhalin/Karafuto island, 1868. Marked in red is Karafuto province, a province of the Tokugawa Bakufu. The Tokugawa territory was administered both directly by the Tokugawa clan, as well as by loyal clans such as the Matsumae, Date, Uesugi and Satake clans. Pockets of Karafuto were divided up by these different clans, primarily for the purposes of appointing retainers.)
Last edited:
Because it was the Shogunate that accepted America's demands of opening their markets. The Emperor's rebellion is based literally in opposition to that decision by the Shogunate. The only descision is whether American supports any side or not. Supporting the Imperials is out of the question (and staying neutral maybe the worst option as no matter who wins your strategic goals get sidelined.)
Just to keep score the Shogunate has the backing of the French, the Americans and the Russians while the Imperials are backed by the British and the Germans.
But the Imperials, with control over Kansai and the support of the British, are the ones with the supreme advantage.
Also, the Shogunate's position is untenable in the long run. The Shogun derives his right to rule from the Emperor. And the Emperor fired him. He may be able to argue against the orders being real now since the Emperor is 17 and technically underage by Japanese law, and can argue he is being manipulated. But that won't last long, so unless he plans on crowning a rival Emperor, he cannot sustain his position for too long.
The Shogunate claims that the Emperor is the divine representation of Amarasetsu and the Japanese people and is above earthly politics and governing. They state that the Emperor getting involved in politics would be a "bastardization of the divine role" and that those who wish to make the Emperor the head executive are "damaging the social and cultural fabric" of Japan. They claim to be the true protectors of the divinity of the Emperor and claim the Imperial movement is a front for anti-national movements. They point to the slaughter of innocents in Osaka as proof.
The Imperial rebuttal is that in general the Emperor is above such politics, but with the Shogun bowing to the west and exposing tranquil Japan to the harsh rule, desperate times call for desperate measures. They frame this new era as some sort of apocalypse, where tradition must change to suit tradition. They also claim that the Emperor's resolution against the opening of Japan shows his great willingness to defend the honor of Japan and its people. I will have numerous updates on the propaganda war effort.
The Shogunate claims to be the side that is truly defending the honor of the Emperor. They say that involving the Emperor in earthly politics and governance is "bastardizing his role and the cultural fabric of the Japanese nation". They ironically claim to be the true defenders of Emperor's honor and dignity. I will go over in detail all the propaganda being used. There will be numerous updates, and it will all be explained over the coarse of the TL, bit by bit. Convincing the Japanese people who is the side of righteousness is an essential part of the war.
I actually thought my first reply was deleted so that's why there are two.
Three steps forward four steps backward am I right?
Btw which anime is your username's picture from? Looks awfully familiar. I'm just asking for the sake of asking, totally not a weeb or anything ...
ALL ANIME IS BEST GIRL!!!!!!!!
Last edited: