If the Shogun has absolute control over the nation politically and militarily, then Emperor Meiji will join his ancestors in ceding power as usual. I do have a plan, and doing this would mess up a lot. Not that it's a bad idea, but I would have to recreate a lot, and I'm not sure if it'll pan out so well. Once again, I hope I don't sound dismissive or condescending. I like hearing people's opinions. It's just I don't see this aspect being implemented.
偉大な恐ろしい戦争: A more bloody and impactful Boshin War
- Thread starter IntellectuallyHonestRhino
- Start date
If the Shogun has absolute control over the nation politically and militarily, then Emperor Meiji will join his ancestors in ceding power as usual. I do have a plan, and doing this would mess up a lot. Not that it's a bad idea, but I would have to recreate a lot, and I'm not sure if it'll pan out so well. Once again, I hope I don't sound dismissive or condescending. I like hearing people's opinions. It's just I don't see this aspect being implemented.
But in the circumstance where the emperor is actively exercising power in the west,he will have to be villified in some manner.Things like the emperor has been deceived/manipulated can only lasts so long—especially if this emperor turns out to be capable and the emperor will soon be of age.The Shogun’s mandate is something that’s retractable.
I understand what you're saying. But trust me, it'll work out. I don't want to reveal any more early on. I have quite a bit planned, and am tinkering quite a bit. But this I can't really tinker. I will say this last thing. The fact that the Shogunate's propaganda (I have scratched the surface. Lots of detail will come out) is not 100% bullet proof means there will be Imperial supporters. Certainly no side in the U.S. Civil War had fullproof propaganda. Someone would always oppose it.
In this timeline,did the Shogun formally ‘return power’ and resign his position prior to the Boshin War like OTL?If he did,that’s gonna be a serious problem.
No he did not. Instead, he made an official western-influenced cabinet, accepted state delegations, and creating more armies. That was the earlier post (I think on page 7).
Oh there will be no surrender early on! I'm not gonna reveal anything except this; this war is going to be bloody, eventful, and intense.
Yoshinobu actually resigned as Shogun in OTL. The original war broke out because the Sat-Cho Alliance wants the complete dismantlement of the Tokugawa clan and redistribution of their lands (which angered Yoshinobu).
It shows that Yoshinobu was somehow willing to compromise.
It shows that Yoshinobu was somehow willing to compromise.
That's one of the major POD's in this TL. It also shows how when no one wishes to budge how much violence can come of it.
FillyofDelphi
Banned
I prefer the Shogunate, TBH, if only because I find ahistorical outcomes inherently more interesting and there's a natural inclination on that side to allow for greater foreign influence in Japan (at least in the short-medium term) especially by France; and Britain having some competition for international influence during their Pax has some intriguing possibilities alongside the islands becoming an arena of "Great Gaming". Who has the advantage? Its hard to say and depends ALOT on the winning of the hearts and minds of the people in order to get them to swallow the massive changes in their way of life and governance both sides want to implement. Militarily, its in the hands of the Shogunate who now that they're mobilized and consolidating can take advantage of being on the strategic defensive and their superior lines of communication/logistics thanks to their naval supremacy. As for foreign support, its primary impact is never going to be in manpower but rather as "force multipliers" in the form of modern warships, access/supply of heavy weapons and engineering specialities, drill instructors, ect. that will allow the Japanese to apply their forces more efficient, especially on the defensive (See Gattlings, modern entrenchment techniques, ect.) and the finances to pay for them.
An Imperial Germany that backs Imperial Japan? This might be my favorite timeline.
Foreign support also means foreign concessions. What were the cities used by both sides for facilitating communication with the foreign powers. Nagasaki is already a given, what about the others?
The 2nd Phase and Additional Advisors
The Second Phase:
The Second Phase of the Boshin War was defined by intense military conflict. After the Imperial victories in Kansai and with Hisamitsu, Takimacha and Ryoma's consolidation of Western Japan, Emperor Meiji and his cabinet of daimyo decided that it would be wise to attack further into Chubu and Kanto regions of Japan. In Chubu numerous mountain battles occurred while Kanto became famous for its bloody fields. General Johnston called Kanto "the Virginia of Japan". Famous battles include the battle of Obama, battle of Yamanashi, battle of Ueno, battle of Niigata, battle of Saitama, and the battle of Higashiagatsuma.
It was the phase that defined the Imperial movement from a rebellion to a state, a phase of great courage, and a phase of great importance.
Important new people:
An ardent liberal, Sakamoto Ryoma was an ardent follower of British economist John Stuart Mill. So when the British state recognized the Imperial government as Japan's legitimate government, Ryoma was elated that he could personally write a letter to Mill, requesting him to come on a state visit. Mill enthusiastically agreed, eager to meet his "favorite fan in all the Orient". After a dinner full of jokes, discussion, and stories, Mill and Ryoma really hit it off. The Japanese diplomats were surprised by Mill's intellect, and Ryoma found it relatively easy to convince Emperor Meiji to hire Mill as an Imperial economic advisor.
Imperial economic advisor John Stuart Mill:
"Mill was to Meiji what Keynes was to Wallace. A prominent economist who gained equal prominence in a foreign nation for his dutiful work as a foreign economic advisor." - Milton Friedman, American economist and Governor of New Hampshire, Democratic.
General Yamagata Aritomo:
Born in Hagi, Yamaguchi province, General Yamagata Aritomo always had a deep sense of loyalty to the Mouri. Serving the "Greatest clan in all of Chugoku" was of immense pride for Aritomo, and so when Daimyo Takimacha recommended that he represent Mouri clan and Yamaguchi province going forward in the war, General Yamagata happily and readily accepted. He was a brilliant military leader but is controversial for his political support of militarism.
Hayashi Tadataka:
(Daimyo Tadataka was a noted strategian, especially in the art of guerrilla warfare)
A formerly obscurely known daimyo from a non-prominent Daimyo family, Daimyo Hayashi Tadakata proved his family's worth on the battlefield with his strategy. His use of guerrilla warfare was immensely successful, and he is regarded as one of the great strategists for the Tokugawa Shogunate.
The Second Phase of the Boshin War was defined by intense military conflict. After the Imperial victories in Kansai and with Hisamitsu, Takimacha and Ryoma's consolidation of Western Japan, Emperor Meiji and his cabinet of daimyo decided that it would be wise to attack further into Chubu and Kanto regions of Japan. In Chubu numerous mountain battles occurred while Kanto became famous for its bloody fields. General Johnston called Kanto "the Virginia of Japan". Famous battles include the battle of Obama, battle of Yamanashi, battle of Ueno, battle of Niigata, battle of Saitama, and the battle of Higashiagatsuma.
It was the phase that defined the Imperial movement from a rebellion to a state, a phase of great courage, and a phase of great importance.
Important new people:
An ardent liberal, Sakamoto Ryoma was an ardent follower of British economist John Stuart Mill. So when the British state recognized the Imperial government as Japan's legitimate government, Ryoma was elated that he could personally write a letter to Mill, requesting him to come on a state visit. Mill enthusiastically agreed, eager to meet his "favorite fan in all the Orient". After a dinner full of jokes, discussion, and stories, Mill and Ryoma really hit it off. The Japanese diplomats were surprised by Mill's intellect, and Ryoma found it relatively easy to convince Emperor Meiji to hire Mill as an Imperial economic advisor.
Imperial economic advisor John Stuart Mill:
"Mill was to Meiji what Keynes was to Wallace. A prominent economist who gained equal prominence in a foreign nation for his dutiful work as a foreign economic advisor." - Milton Friedman, American economist and Governor of New Hampshire, Democratic.
General Yamagata Aritomo:
Born in Hagi, Yamaguchi province, General Yamagata Aritomo always had a deep sense of loyalty to the Mouri. Serving the "Greatest clan in all of Chugoku" was of immense pride for Aritomo, and so when Daimyo Takimacha recommended that he represent Mouri clan and Yamaguchi province going forward in the war, General Yamagata happily and readily accepted. He was a brilliant military leader but is controversial for his political support of militarism.
Hayashi Tadataka:
(Daimyo Tadataka was a noted strategian, especially in the art of guerrilla warfare)
A formerly obscurely known daimyo from a non-prominent Daimyo family, Daimyo Hayashi Tadakata proved his family's worth on the battlefield with his strategy. His use of guerrilla warfare was immensely successful, and he is regarded as one of the great strategists for the Tokugawa Shogunate.
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Nagasaki, Kagoshima, Kobe, Shimonoseki and Osaka are major trading cities for the Imperials, while Edo, Niigata, Sendai, Hakadote, and Sapporo for the Shogunate. Others too, but these are the primary five for each side in trade.
Btw, they aren't so much "conceded' as they are trading centers. Japan being in a civil war leads to some bargaining chips.
Battle of Obama:
(Echizen Bridge, a crucial aspect of the battle).
(Echizen Bridge, a crucial aspect of the battle).
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That's a lot of battles. How many months did it took for all of these?
The pacing is a bit fast for me. How did the Imperials reached Kanto that fast? There are three routes to take, and I don't think they have enough manpower to simultaneously advance ala Barbarossa.
The pacing is a bit fast for me. How did the Imperials reached Kanto that fast? There are three routes to take, and I don't think they have enough manpower to simultaneously advance ala Barbarossa.
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