偉大な恐ろしい戦争: A more bloody and impactful Boshin War

Who is winning the war?

  • Shogunate

    Votes: 5 18.5%
  • Empire

    Votes: 16 59.3%
  • Shogunate (barely)

    Votes: 2 7.4%
  • Empire (barely)

    Votes: 4 14.8%

  • Total voters
    27
  • Poll closed .
U.S. General Election of 1868
Election of 1868:




grantcolfaxposter.jpg

(An election poster for the Grant/Colfax campaign, 1868)




After the bloody civil war, the United States was tired. Tired of bloodshed, tired of warfare, tired of the same old leadership. With Lincoln dead, the field for competent leadership at the top was looking slimmer by the day. While people were still originally hopeful after the shocking assassination of the much beloved President Lincoln, hopes for a better tomorrow were as quickly vanishing as the talent pool was, under the rule of graft politics. The American people were looking for a unifying leader, one that could repair the nation after its most destructive war to date. In the Republican column, Union War hero Ulysses S. Grant was nominated for the top job (alongside with Congressman Colfax of Minnesota), while the Democratic ticket was Seymour-Hancock. Originally, pollsters expected a Republican sweep due to union supporters rallying around the "Champion of Chattanooga", however, Hancock as the "General at Gettysburg" brought in essentially all the War Democrats back into the Democratic column, turning former shoe in states for Grant such as New York and California into question.


"This race certainly will be a close one. That is all I can predict" - Senator Blaine of Maine


Still, with the South out of play with Reconstruction, a Republican victory was for certain. Seymour and Hancock could revive the party in the north and sweep the border states, but the general consensus was that Grant would succeed the ill-renowned President Johnson. Or so they thought.


"From the wars in New Zealand to the massacre of foreigners in Japan, white racial tension was at an all high time in the middle Victorian era. A period of colonial expansion with recent setbacks as well as in America the collapse of slavery sent shockwaves across the American electorate. More and more Caucasian-Americans saw Seymour and the Democrats as their champion, and old fears of freedman going in droves towards the West and the northern cities frightened the living soul out of the majority of Americans. For the Democratic Union supporter, voting for Seymour was no problem, as by his side was the great war hero Hancock. For the Copperheads, Seymour's role in the 63 New York Draft riots made him their hero, and for the longtime Whig who supported Lincoln, Lincoln fought for the unity of the nation, not the welfare of the freedmen. A new coalition coalesced around Seymour and Hancock, who ran a non-controversial, highly unifying in terms of region yet highly divisive in terms of race campaign, allowing for a surprise victory for Seymour" - A History of Columbia, by David McCullough.


Elections Results:


genusmap.php




Seymour/Hancock - 165
Grant/Colfax - 129


The upset victory caused a shock across the nation, and puzzled all foreign commentators. Andrew Johnson immediately resigned and let Seymour, the way more popular politician, take the reigns of control.


"Never before have I seen the winners of a war be so horribly punished" - Napoleon III, Emperor of France.


"At least that rat Johnson is nowhere in sight" - Edwin M. Stanton, Lincoln's Sec. of War


White House, District of Columbia, 1868:

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(The White House, 1868. Colorized.)

"Mr. President, what is the urgent matter?"

"The civil war in Japan is of great concern to me. This is our nation's greatest opportunity to enter the bountiful Pacific market, essential for our economic and ultimately social welfare"

"What should I do, Mr. President?"

"Send me generals William Sherman and Joseph Johnston"
 
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I really can't see Seymour winning the election. Grant was the far more popular one and a war hero who beat Lee, had the votes of the free blacks, the press show Seymour as disloyal, and Seymour did not take an active role in the campaign for a good part of it.

Either way, Republicans will stay in power in Congress and block everything Seymour does.
 
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I really can't see Seymour winning the election. Grant was the far more popular and a war hero who beat Lee, had the votes of the free blacks, the press show Seymour as disloyal, and did not take an active role in the campaign for a good part of it.

Either way, Republicans will stay in power in Congress and block everything Seymour does.

GOP wins Congress. I was going to add that later, and there will be a part two to explain everything. I tried to find a good situation with President Grant dealing with Japan, but it works better with Seymour. The election was much closer than expected, and if Seymour had just a bit more support in the North, he would be President. Francis Blair's rhetoric was extremely catastrophic for Seymour. Hancock would have been much more appealing. Unlike 72 against Greeley, the voteshare was quite close, and it was only Republican dominance in the reconstructed South that gave such a strong mandate for Grant. A little bit more strength for Seymour up North and its a whole different ballgame. Seymour-Blair winning is IMO ASB, but Seymour-Hancock? I think that's a different story. And in this election Hancock never mentions the role of the tariff what so ever, so that potential drag goes away.


The West votes Democratic btw also due to anti-Chinese sentiment (California and Nevada voted for Hancock in OTL 1880 election), and Indiana and Ohio always had strong Democratic voter bases during the gilded age. Hancock is from Pennsylvania, so he's a son of the soil.
 
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GOP wins Congress. I was going to add that later, and there will be a part two to explain everything. I tried to find a good situation with President Grant dealing with Japan, but it works better with Seymour. The election was much closer than expected, and if Confederate supporting Southern white could vote (and just a little bit more support for Seymour in the North. Francis Blair's rhetoric was extremely catastrophic for Seymour. Hancock would have been much more appealing.), Seymour would be president. Seymour-Blair winning is IMO ASB, but Seymour-Hancock? I think that's a different story. And in this election Hancock never mentions the role of the tariff what so ever.

I still find it a bit hard. Either way, I don't think Seymour will get much done outside of Japan. (Which the GOP will be quick to cry foul.)
 
I still find it a bit hard. Either way, I don't think Seymour will get much done outside of Japan. (Which the GOP will be quick to cry foul.)

Fair point. I never said that American politics would be smooth after this ;). Just to be clear I would never have Greeley win. That's impossible. And also I only see Seymour winning with Hancock, as that would slightly lessen Grant's big war hero advantage. I will give one hint. A more divided American gov is required for interventions in Japan.
 
Any predictions for how the U.S. will involve itself in the Boshin War?

Fair point. I never said that American politics would be smooth after this ;). Just to be clear I would never have Greeley win. That's impossible.

With British support of the Imperial Forces, the USA would likely support the Shogunate. There is a ton of Civil War vets they send over to help (William W. Belknap), and a ton of left over gear and guns to send over.

Heck, ever former Confederates could see action. (William R. Boggs, Braxton Bragg, John Rogers Cooke, Basil W. Duke.)
 
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With British support of the Imperial Forces, the USA would likely support the Shogunate. There is a ton of Civil War vets they send over to help (William W. Belknap), and a ton of left over gear and guns to send over.
But at the same time... the French are heavily supporting the Shogunate, and they gave far more materials to the Confederates than the British.
 
But at the same time... the French are heavily supporting the Shogunate, and they gave far more materials to the Confederates than the British.

London did build the CSS Alabama for the CSA however.

What we could see is fighting between Pro-Paris and Pro-DC elements inside the Shogunate
 
Any predictions for how the U.S. will involve itself in the Boshin War?

I don't see foreigners rushing to back each side, to be honest, there would be no real difference for the foreigners regardless of who would win, Japan must open, the days of isolation to maintain stability are over. The Shogunate and the Imperials both would want to modernize, the big question is what does the power structure look like. The Shogunate would want to conserve its power and keep the emperor as a figurehead, and at least reform the Shogunate, so their strength is not bound to the lords of the domains, create a Shogunate that is now far stronger than any that came before it. While the Imperials would want to do away with the Shogunate system and put power back into the Emperor's hands.
 
I don't see foreigners rushing to back each side, to be honest, there would be no real difference for the foreigners regardless of who would win, Japan must open, the days f isolation to maintain stability are over. The Shogunate and the Imperials both would want to modernize, the big question is what does the power structure look like. The Shogunate would want to conserve its power and keep the emperor as a figurehead, and at least reform the Shogunate, so their strength is not bound to the lords of the domains, create a Shogunate that is now far stronger than any that came before it. While the Imperials would want to do away with the Shogunate system and put power back into the Emperor's hands.


All I'll say is this. Foreign powers will be quite involved in the civil war. In what extent, what area, not revealing. May also depend on the power.


Btw like your Imagawa TL.
 
All I'll say is this. Foreign powers will be quite involved in the civil war. In what extent, what area, not revealing. May also depend on the power.


Btw like your Imagawa TL.

Not surprising, considering we're in the 2nd Age of Imperialism here. France is still groaping around for her "India" to retain something of a position as a rival to Britain, and a loyal Shogunate indebted to and militarily/economically tied to Paris under a semi-decenteralized system as the Daimyo would go a long way towards achieving that enviable position. Foreigners in particular, though, seem less likely: few individuals are likely to feel motivated to travel all the way to Japan without direct orders from their employers in order to take part in a war who's causes and impacts primarily remain contained to Japan. I imagine involvement is going to be mainly in terms of naval support and supplies; perhaps the French Navy bombarding a major harbor right after it gets captured by the Imperials, and providing access to modern equipment to elite units.
 
Not surprising, considering we're in the 2nd Age of Imperialism here. France is still groaping around for her "India" to retain something of a position as a rival to Britain, and a loyal Shogunate indebted to and militarily/economically tied to Paris under a semi-decenteralized system as the Daimyo would go a long way towards achieving that enviable position. Foreigners in particular, though, seem less likely: few individuals are likely to feel motivated to travel all the way to Japan without direct orders from their employers in order to take part in a war who's causes and impacts primarily remain contained to Japan. I imagine involvement is going to be mainly in terms of naval support and supplies; perhaps the French Navy bombarding a major harbor right after it gets captured by the Imperials, and providing access to modern equipment to elite units.

Imperialism will definitely be a big part of this TL.
 
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