¡Por la Patria, Viva México Fuerte! A Mexican TL
- Thread starter Arkhangelsk
- Start date
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- strong mexico
Está viviendo!
Y con nueva fuerza también!
Arkhangelsk
Good to see this back. Hope the examines went well.
Steve
Thanks Steve, I feel like I did rather well, I will admit the exams kicked my ass a bit, lol.
Thanks for the sentiment. Thanks for the support guys!
Hi! Interesting timeline.
Thank you very much!
Hehe thanks! I meant for posting it today but was stuck doing something else, so I'll have the update up tomorrow. I hope you'll enjoy it!
Reigning in the Extremes: Guatemala and California
Okay I lied, TODAY shall be when I make the update.
Reigning in the Extremes: Guatemala and California
President-elect Allende spent the intervening months between his election and inauguration preparing for what he felt was his toughest challenge yet. His office was untested, and he was well aware of the magnitude of the new nation's problems. The nation’s coffers were empty, much of the countryside was in ruin, and marauding bands of former royalists were scattered all over throwing the countryside into even more ruin. All this was seemingly not enough, however, to drown the spirits of many, as celebration for their newly acquired independence continued will into 1817. Perhaps no town or village celebrated harder than San Miguel el Grande in the new state of Guanajuato, home and birthplace of the nation's new leader. The troubles facing the young nation did not stop Allende from spending a few weeks in his hometown to partake in the celebrations. It also did not stop his son, Indalecio Allende Herrera[1]from becoming acquainted with a beautiful young woman by the name of Adélia Jacinto Vargas. Adélia quickly fell in love with the junior Allende, and needless to say the feeling was mutual. Before long they were engaged, and marriage soon followed on 27 December 1816. After final preparations General Allende made his move to México City, were in the final weeks to his inauguration on 1 March Allende would begin forming his Cabinet. With final preparations set forth 1 March 1817 arrived and Ignacio José de Allende y Unzaga would formally become the first President of the United Mexican States. Upon taking office Allende would send 1,500 troops to Veracruz, as reinforcements for General Fernández. Allende would also approve a contingent of troops, under the command of Morelos’ lieutenant Vicente Guerrero to aid Insurgents in Central America. The Revolution in Central America, which was heavily suppressed by the Spanish in 1812, was experiencing resurgence, undoubtedly stemming from the Insurgent victory in the former New Spain. The renewed rebellion however was without clear leadership and was locked in a stalemate with the Spanish. Departing on 5 March from México City, Guerrero would stop, first in Chilpancingo, then in Acapulco in order to accumulate supplies and troops. From Acapulco Guerrero would then march along the coast, entering Soconusco in late March, where he had his first engagement with Royalists immediately south of Tapachula. Guerrero made quick work of the weak force, which quickly disintegrated and fled to their base in eastern Guatemala. From Tapachula Guerrero would then reach Guatemala City on 8 April. From Guatemala City Guerrero would formally begin his campaign against the Spanish, with a massive thrust at San Salvador. Despite some stiff resistance, Guerrero’s troops managed to defeat the Spanish north of San Salvador on 20 April. Wasting no time, Guerrero shifted his attention north, immediately invading Comayagua[2] where, despite the toll the tropical climate was taking on many of his troops, took both the capital at Comayagua and the neighboring village of Tegucigalpa. It is here where Guerrero is informed that the last Central American Intendancy of León had conceded to the Insurgents. With all of the former Captaincy-General in the Insurgent camp, Guerrero and his men turned back towards México City.
Vicente Guerrero's Guatemala Campaign
Meanwhile to México’s northern extreme General Ignacio Aldama was charged with a military expedition to Alta California and Nuevo México, collectively known as the Northern Territories. After making the arduous trek from México City through the Bajío, Zacatecas, Durango and Sonora Aldama and his forces would enter San Diego on 2 April 1817. The commandant of the Presidio there welcomed Aldama and his men, allowing them lodging there. Here Aldama would find out that the dispute between the governorship of the territory had been settled, Solá remaining in Monterey while Argüello setting up shop in Baja California Territory. Aware of Solá’s Spanish sympathies, Aldama sent a dispatch to meet with the governor immediately. Upon Solá’s agreement to meet up, Aldama left San Diego on April 20, following the route of the former Camino Real[3] along the coast. Despite losing a few of his men to Indian attacks two days north of San Juan Capistrano Mission, Aldama managed to reach Los Angeles on 30 April, where he would finally meet with Governor Solá, who had also made the trek from Monterey to Los Angeles to meet with Aldama, based on an agreement made prior. Besides being largely uneventful, the meetings achieved their stated goals of attaining Solá’s loyalty to the Insurgent government, as well as ensuring free passage through the Territory.
With the legalities aside, Aldama could begin the exploratory phase of his mission, beginning with the area due north of Los Angeles and San Gabriel. Aside from the San Fernando Mission in the foot hills to Los Angeles’ north, the proceeding mountains were largely unexplored, and what lay beyond them a mystery. Running on notes from the famous Portolà Expedition some 40 years before, Aldama would proceed through the Santa Clarita valley, and after crossing several mountain passes finally caught a glimpse of the expansive San Joaquin Valley floor on 16 May. Upon descending Aldama discovered both wetlands and grassland, and upon stumbling onto the Posuncola River’s[4] flood plain, and during a flood due to snow melt, the existence of fertile soil. It was not long however before hostilities broke out between Aldama’s men and the local Yokuts tribe. The Mexican’s defeated the Yokuts with relative ease, but Aldama knew better than to remain in the hostile area for too long, and so on 26 May crossed the Posuncola River and continued north. As the Mexican’s continued to traverse the valley (which seemingly had no end in sight), Aldama came across a large body of mixed marshland and water, which according to his notes he identified as Lake Tulare. After several more weeks the valley floor gave way to hills and ridges and finally on 12 June Aldama reached the coast, and within sight of Monterey. After several days in the capital he and his men followed the Mission trail south, reaching Los Angeles on 2 July and San Diego on 15 July. After leaving several of his troops who had decided to remain in the territory, Aldama would make the final stretch of his journey back to México City, finally arriving on 22 August.
***
[1] Considering Allende is never killed in Chihuahua in 1811, neither is his only son Indalecio. Here I have him survive the war with his father, and expect him to be important later on.
[2] Archaic name for Honduras.
[3] Kinda weird for México to have a "Royal Road" if it's a republic.
[4] Posuncola was the name of the Kern River prior to California's annexation in OTL.
I'll post a map like the one for Guerrero's campaign later.
Vicente Guerrero's Guatemala Campaign
Meanwhile to México’s northern extreme General Ignacio Aldama was charged with a military expedition to Alta California and Nuevo México, collectively known as the Northern Territories. After making the arduous trek from México City through the Bajío, Zacatecas, Durango and Sonora Aldama and his forces would enter San Diego on 2 April 1817. The commandant of the Presidio there welcomed Aldama and his men, allowing them lodging there. Here Aldama would find out that the dispute between the governorship of the territory had been settled, Solá remaining in Monterey while Argüello setting up shop in Baja California Territory. Aware of Solá’s Spanish sympathies, Aldama sent a dispatch to meet with the governor immediately. Upon Solá’s agreement to meet up, Aldama left San Diego on April 20, following the route of the former Camino Real[3] along the coast. Despite losing a few of his men to Indian attacks two days north of San Juan Capistrano Mission, Aldama managed to reach Los Angeles on 30 April, where he would finally meet with Governor Solá, who had also made the trek from Monterey to Los Angeles to meet with Aldama, based on an agreement made prior. Besides being largely uneventful, the meetings achieved their stated goals of attaining Solá’s loyalty to the Insurgent government, as well as ensuring free passage through the Territory.
With the legalities aside, Aldama could begin the exploratory phase of his mission, beginning with the area due north of Los Angeles and San Gabriel. Aside from the San Fernando Mission in the foot hills to Los Angeles’ north, the proceeding mountains were largely unexplored, and what lay beyond them a mystery. Running on notes from the famous Portolà Expedition some 40 years before, Aldama would proceed through the Santa Clarita valley, and after crossing several mountain passes finally caught a glimpse of the expansive San Joaquin Valley floor on 16 May. Upon descending Aldama discovered both wetlands and grassland, and upon stumbling onto the Posuncola River’s[4] flood plain, and during a flood due to snow melt, the existence of fertile soil. It was not long however before hostilities broke out between Aldama’s men and the local Yokuts tribe. The Mexican’s defeated the Yokuts with relative ease, but Aldama knew better than to remain in the hostile area for too long, and so on 26 May crossed the Posuncola River and continued north. As the Mexican’s continued to traverse the valley (which seemingly had no end in sight), Aldama came across a large body of mixed marshland and water, which according to his notes he identified as Lake Tulare. After several more weeks the valley floor gave way to hills and ridges and finally on 12 June Aldama reached the coast, and within sight of Monterey. After several days in the capital he and his men followed the Mission trail south, reaching Los Angeles on 2 July and San Diego on 15 July. After leaving several of his troops who had decided to remain in the territory, Aldama would make the final stretch of his journey back to México City, finally arriving on 22 August.
***
[1] Considering Allende is never killed in Chihuahua in 1811, neither is his only son Indalecio. Here I have him survive the war with his father, and expect him to be important later on.
[2] Archaic name for Honduras.
[3] Kinda weird for México to have a "Royal Road" if it's a republic.
[4] Posuncola was the name of the Kern River prior to California's annexation in OTL.
I'll post a map like the one for Guerrero's campaign later.
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So what will Republican Mexico do to get back on its feet? There's gold in California, a lot of land for cattle ranching, some farming... all that could bring in money if things are right.
Gold won't do much of anything for a while, bear in mind we haven't hit the 1820's yet, so gold won't probably be discovered for several more years. Aldama's expedition has opened the way for renewed interest in California (and the prospect for future colonization of the Central Valley) but again that will take time. What Allende will do first to get some much needed income is secure loans (México is already trading with the United States but it's not enough). Expect Allende to be courting Great Britain for some cash in the short term.
Arkhangelsk
If Mexico is courting Britain for investment and loans then there should be plenty of prospects. There are some potential problems.
a) A lot will depend on how any loans are used. Wisely and there could be a very good relationship developing. Badly and Britain will start worrying about bad debts and whether it will get it's money back. That could lead to political and possibly military clashes which would poison relations.
b) Presumably this would also mean some resolution of the status of British Honduras and the Miskito coast regions, probably in Britain's favour as Mexico wants the funds and has enough problems on its mind.
c) Good relations between Britain and Mexico could cause tension with the US and Spain, especially if Britain is following it's OTL line of blocking European aid to Spain in regaining it's American territories. With it's economic and naval dominance Britain can handle this but it wouldn't be without cost.
On the wider screen the earlier loss of Mexico could mean the Spanish give up on their other territories or they fight harder and hold on longer because they can concentrate more resources there. Could be interesting to see how it develops but with Mexcio gone and Spain exhausted and divided after the Napoleonic conflict I would expect them to lose eventually.
One other source of tension that could prevent the OTL US conquest of the SW [or NW in Mexico's case]. Given Britain's move against slavery and that Mexico had little taste for it I could see Britain [or at least significant political opinion in it] opposing any military expansion by the US which would open up areas for slavery. A lot would of course depend on what happens in Tejas.
Steve
Thanks for raising those points Steve, they're very helpful.
Allende needs the aid badly, but he's aware that depending too much on European loans would be detrimental later on (from an Insurgent perspective it might seem México is replacing one imperial power with another, and the Insurgents don't want that).
México under Guadalupe Victoria did this in OTL, but after his term ended and with the advent of Santa Anna everything went to hell and you had Europe poking it's nose every now and then for 30 years to make sure México was paying back the loans (if memory serves).
Indeed México will certainly come to terms regarding British Honduras and the Miskito Coast in Britain's favor. If Allende can swallow his pride and leave Cuba to the United States then I can see Britain keeping those Central American territories. México would do well to keep a low profile and bow slightly to stronger powers for now.
Britian and the US are on reasonable terms with one another due to no War of 1812, so the Americans won't worry much on México courting GB, though anything can change in 10 or 20 years. Especially if an issue like Oregon comes up, assuming Méxican-American relations begin to sour as American desire for the SW grows, you may see Britain stand behind México. (assuming GB and México are still friendly)
Also, regarding Spain, the loss of México will cause some interesting ripples there. I won't divulge the details yet but Fernando VII's reign will become more radical, which may lead to more violence than what Spain faced in 1819-1820. This radicalization will not only push Spain to give up on South America early, but it would push Britain to be less wary of aiding both México and South America. I'm actually pretty excited to get to the update on Spain since it'll finally give me a chance to talk about Europe.
Thanks for raising those points Steve, they're very helpful.
Allende needs the aid badly, but he's aware that depending too much on European loans would be detrimental later on (from an Insurgent perspective it might seem México is replacing one imperial power with another, and the Insurgents don't want that).
México under Guadalupe Victoria did this in OTL, but after his term ended and with the advent of Santa Anna everything went to hell and you had Europe poking it's nose every now and then for 30 years to make sure México was paying back the loans (if memory serves).
Indeed México will certainly come to terms regarding British Honduras and the Miskito Coast in Britain's favor. If Allende can swallow his pride and leave Cuba to the United States then I can see Britain keeping those Central American territories. México would do well to keep a low profile and bow slightly to stronger powers for now.
Thanks. Given the cultural differencies [predominately black at least in Belize, Protestant and English speaking] I could see then staying separate from Mexico pretty much permanently. Even after independence from Britain.
Good point, although without the conflict there will still be some tensions, especially if some British traders are selling guns to the Indians seeking to resist US expansion. Also you might still get at least some Americans thinking that they only need to walk into Canada and the population will welcome them with open arms. However they will probably be pretty good with the close trade links.
Interesting. Given how reactionary Fernando was OTL and the fact he needed French intervention to secure himself against the 'radicals' in Spanish terms anyway that sounds like things could go the other way. A more reformed Spain that fails to go so reactionary and gives up on the American colonies earlier could be significantly more important in western Europe in the next few decades at least.
Steve
Yes I agree.
You are correct, there will be bumps in the road as time goes by regarding Anglo/Canadian-US relations. What is interesting is the butterflies that resulted from the lack of the Wo1812. As you pointed out the Americans haven't learned how bad an idea invading Canada would be. I wonder if this would delay any future federation, or what other butterflies would result here.
Exactly. I haven't thought out anything more for Spain past 1830, but needless to say the 19th century in ATL as in OTL will be no friend to Spain...things will be messy indeed.
Arkhangelsk
Interesting idea. My initial thought was the other way. With America possibly more belligerent because they don't realise the dangers of getting into a war with Britain/Canada a Canadian federation might be more likely as the perceived threat will be greater. However it could be that without the war the Canadian identity is weakened sufficiently that some might look favourably on union with the US. Still think this is unlikely to be a major factor but could be. Might depend on how relations between Canada and Britain go and possibly also whether the US in TTL might be less hostile to Catholics.
Steve
Hm, good point. On the subject of those who may look to integration into the Union, would these possibly be the same or similar individuals who were involved in the Revolts of 1837-1838, or just the general relation between The US and the Canadians who who'd seek to reform or alter their relationship with Britain.
1818: Adams-Ortiz Treaty
Here's a mini update, something fun that I came up with today, and a little piece of what the next update deals with; the first two and a half articles of the Adams-Ortiz Treaty.
***
The United States of America and the United Mexican States desiring to consolidate on a permanent basis the friendship and good correspondence which happily prevails between the two Parties, have determined to settle and terminate all their differences and pretensions by a Treaty, which shall designate with precision the limits of their respective bordering territories in North America.
With this intention the President of the United States has furnished with their full Powers John Quincy Adams, Secretary of State of the said United States; and the President of the United Mexican States has appointed Pascacio Ortiz de Letona his Secretary with Exercise of Decrees, and his Envoy Extraordinary and Minister Plenipotentiary near the United States of America.
And the said Plenipotentiaries, after having exchanged their Powers, have agreed upon and concluded the following Articles.
ARTICLE 1
There shall be a firm and inviolable peace and sincere friendship between the United States and their Citizens, and the United Mexican States and their citizens, without exception of persons or places.
ARTICLE 2
The United Mexican States cedes to the United States, in full property and sovereignty, all the territories which belong to them, situated to the Eastward of the Mississippi, known by the name of East and West Florida, as well as the island of Cuba. The adjacent Islands dependent on said Provinces, all public lots and squares, vacant Lands, public Edifices, Fortifications, Barracks and other Buildings, which are not private property, Archives and Documents, which relate directly to the property and sovereignty of said Provinces, are included in this Article. The said Archives and Documents shall be left in possession of the Commissaries, or Officers of the United States, duly authorized to receive them.
ARTICLE 3
The Boundary Line between the two Countries, West of the Mississippi, shall begin on the Gulf of Mexico, at the mouth of the River Colorado in the Sea, continuing North West, along the Western Bank of that River, to the 32d degree of Latitude; thence by a Line due North to the degree of Latitude, where it strikes the Rio Roxo of Nachitoches, or Red-River, then following the course of the Rio-Roxo Westward to the degree of Longitude, 100 West from London and 23 from Washington, then continuing on a Line due West to the edge of the Watershed of the Mississippi River, and following it to the 40h degree of Latitude; thence by a line due West to the degree of Longitude, 114 West from London and 37 from Washington, then continuing on a Line due North to the 42d degree of Latitude, then continuing on a Line due West where the Boundary Line meets the Pacific Ocean.
***
TREATY OF AMITY, SETTLEMENT AND LIMITS BETWEEN THE
UNITED STATES OF AMERICA, AND THE UNITED MEXICAN STATES
UNITED STATES OF AMERICA, AND THE UNITED MEXICAN STATES
With this intention the President of the United States has furnished with their full Powers John Quincy Adams, Secretary of State of the said United States; and the President of the United Mexican States has appointed Pascacio Ortiz de Letona his Secretary with Exercise of Decrees, and his Envoy Extraordinary and Minister Plenipotentiary near the United States of America.
And the said Plenipotentiaries, after having exchanged their Powers, have agreed upon and concluded the following Articles.
ARTICLE 1
There shall be a firm and inviolable peace and sincere friendship between the United States and their Citizens, and the United Mexican States and their citizens, without exception of persons or places.
ARTICLE 2
The United Mexican States cedes to the United States, in full property and sovereignty, all the territories which belong to them, situated to the Eastward of the Mississippi, known by the name of East and West Florida, as well as the island of Cuba. The adjacent Islands dependent on said Provinces, all public lots and squares, vacant Lands, public Edifices, Fortifications, Barracks and other Buildings, which are not private property, Archives and Documents, which relate directly to the property and sovereignty of said Provinces, are included in this Article. The said Archives and Documents shall be left in possession of the Commissaries, or Officers of the United States, duly authorized to receive them.
ARTICLE 3
The Boundary Line between the two Countries, West of the Mississippi, shall begin on the Gulf of Mexico, at the mouth of the River Colorado in the Sea, continuing North West, along the Western Bank of that River, to the 32d degree of Latitude; thence by a Line due North to the degree of Latitude, where it strikes the Rio Roxo of Nachitoches, or Red-River, then following the course of the Rio-Roxo Westward to the degree of Longitude, 100 West from London and 23 from Washington, then continuing on a Line due West to the edge of the Watershed of the Mississippi River, and following it to the 40h degree of Latitude; thence by a line due West to the degree of Longitude, 114 West from London and 37 from Washington, then continuing on a Line due North to the 42d degree of Latitude, then continuing on a Line due West where the Boundary Line meets the Pacific Ocean.
Arkhangelsk
Possible some in the upper Canadian revolt. I think the lower Canadian revolt would be less likely to look towards the US as with Britain they have special status for the Catholic church and French tongue. Joining the US, which had something of an anti-Catholic streak at the time, this would be lost and they would also be far more likely to be simply swamped by the much larger American population rather than being a big fish in a small pond in Canada.
With upper Canada a lot of the initial settlers came from New England/New York as it was the area directly to the west of them. OTL they kept to the oath of loyalty and I think a lot served in the militia in the defence of Canada. Without that conflict they might not have the same distrust of the US developing although presumably their children will identify themselves as Canadians.
What might be more to the point is that after 1812 Canada greatly restricted further settlement from the US for a while. Without this there will probably be more Americans coming across, at least to the Ontario peninsula. Hence probably a more populated and developed upper Canada but with more friendly links to the US so possibly a revolt here, if not handled quickly and skillfully, to calm the settlers they might look to the south for help. [Also possibly a rabble-rouser politician or two in the US calling for help for their 'brothers' in the north which could increase tension]. The other bit is that if there is more settlement of the region any clash might come earlier. Possibly also, fearing the degree of American immigration, authorities might make more effort to encourage settlers from Britain. Which could make the population even higher but possibly more divided.
All in all it could go largely as OTL or get very messy with a major crisis, civil war or even a clash with the US in which Canadian opinion is divided.
Steve
Very interesting ideas Steve, many thanks for bringing them up!
For quite some time I've mostly drawn a blank on Canada, but this makes things very interesting. Not only does this possibly alter the dynamics on North America but it can have an impact on Europe as well...or at least just Britain.
Also we've established that an American adventure into Canada would be a foolhardy one indeed, but if the US were to attack during 1837 or it's equivalent what the repercussions may be.
Very interesting ideas Steve, many thanks for bringing them up!
For quite some time I've mostly drawn a blank on Canada, but this makes things very interesting. Not only does this possibly alter the dynamics on North America but it can have an impact on Europe as well...or at least just Britain.
Anything that affects Britain at this point will in fairly short order affect just about everywhere else.
Would depend on the circumstance, in Canada, Britain, the US and elsewhere. With crisis in Britain and a wide-spread welcome in Canada it might mean the latter is quickly lost. [Grey Wolf used this as part of at least one TL]. Alternatively it could unite both Canadians and feeling in Britain and lead to the US getting a hell of a drubbing. Or anywhere in between including igniting a bitter civil war in Canada, possibly also in Britain and/or America and allow things to develop elsewhere.
With the right set up you could have almost anything happening.
Steve