¡Por la Patria, Viva México Fuerte! A Mexican TL

Arkhangelsk

Its sounding bad for the rebels at the moment but you are hinting that Calleja is making enemies. I get the feeling things will turn for them and avoiding looting and abuse of the population, while it might have problems in the shorter run, will very likely give big befits later on. Looking forward to developments.

Steve

Correct, Calleja was a very ruthless man, so ruthless that the Spanish government fired him from the job in OTL. In TTL he's probably more ruthless due to the fact that he was imprisoned by the Insurgents for several months, and considers this a grave insult. Needless to say, his tactics are a blessing in disguise for the Insurgents.

Thanks Steve!
 
1813: Battle for Valladolid
A new update in roughly 24 hours...yes yes it must be a sign of the apocalypse...:p

It's kinda remarkable I think, all of a sudden I've gotten this sudden urge to write it all down again...think the opposite of a writers block. Anyway, here's a new update, hope you guys enjoy :)

1813: Battle for Valladolid; Arredondo vs. Morelos v.2
Allende therefore regrouped all his forces and sent immediate orders to march on Valladolid. Allende’s reasoning was that the new Spanish arrivals would be sent to México City in preparation for a push towards the de facto Insurgent capital, Guadalajara. Feeling cautious he left Juan Aldama with a force of several thousand Insurgent troops at Tampico, knowing that Calleja, while not focusing on Tampico, will attack just to cover all the possible Insurgent strongholds. By April 1813 Allende and his men were well within the Bajío [1], before getting word of Royalist forces advancing on Guadalajara. Allende’s army would intercept the Royalist force, led by Manuel del Rio on 1 May, northwest of Pátzquaro. The battle, while inconclusive, did manage to halt the Royalist march into Jalisco, saving Guadalajara. Unfortunately, the Royalist force all but vanished from Allende’s striking range the morning after, before he was informed that del Rio’s force merged with another Royalist band, under the command of Colonel Joaquin Arredondo, this time with all eyes set on Valladolid. The Insurgent force left to defend the city was significantly smaller than the Royalist army, and fell to them on 10 May. On orders from Viceroy Calleja, Arredondo and his men rounded up as many Insurgent soldiers as they could and on the morning of May 12 executed them en masse in Valladolid’s central plaza. Arredondo recorded 39 Insurgents killed, though modern historians put the death toll in the hundreds [2]. Moving at lightning speed, Arredondo’s next target, Uruapan, fell on May 27, suffering a fate similar to Valladolid. At this point Arredondo’s strategy became evident to the Insurgents: a new strike on Guadalajara from the south. The two combatants, Allende and Arredondo, found themselves racing towards Arredondo’s next major target: Apatzingán, which unlike Arredondo’s previous targets would not go down without a fight. In the end Arredondo would reach Apatzingán first on 7 June, but upon his army’s arrival he would get the surprise of a lifetime: coming face to face with his former adversary, Jose María Morelos!


hw9jZ00.jpg

Jose Maria Morelos

After his successful Yucatán Campaign Morelos and his troops reentered the interior and attempted to take Puebla. After several weeks of siege Morelos briefly took a portion of the city before the battle ended, with a Royalist victory. After another unsuccessful strike at Puebla, Morelos made his way to Iguala, where he received news of an impending attack on the Insurgent capital. As he drew nearer to Apatzingán Morelos was informed of Arredondo’s recent capture of Valladolid, as well as his intent of taking Apatzingán. Wasting no time Morelos set up batteries on the hills overlooking the city, as well as sending squads of expert guerrillas to harass the Royalist troops entering through the valleys east of the city. The main battle would commence on 7 June, and would continue with neither side gaining any leverage until Allende’s army out-maneuvered the Royalists and all but destroyed Arredondo’s army. Despite this Arredondo managed to flee the battlefield before the battles conclusion, thus eluding capture for the second time. Nevertheless, the Insurgents would be able to recapture Uruapan and Valladolid and by the late 1813 retake Taximaroa, completely liberating the Intendancy of Valladolid. At this time the Insurgents began planning for a new offensive beginning in late winter or early spring of 1814. The two main Insurgent commanders, Allende and Morelos, reached several conclusions. Paramount among them, as news was arriving of Napoléon’s decreasing power in Europe and, more specifically, the reestablishment of Spanish government with Francisco VII as king, the possibility of even more Spanish troops, battle hardened after years of fighting the Grande Armée was very great. They both resolved that the only way they can win the war now was to drive the Spaniards “off the continent,” in the words of Morelos. One minor issue of conflict was the question of a complete declaration of independence, as in total separation from Madrid. Morelos felt the time was ripe to issue such a declaration, but Allende pressured Morelos to wait for a while longer, until war in Spain came to a halt.

[1] The Bajío is a region of México that encompasses the middle of the country (i.e. Guanajuato).
[2]Arredondo was known for being extremely inhumane and ruthless during his OTL campaigns in Texas. For the record he was a major influence on future dictator Santa Anna.

---------------------------------------------------------------------

Questions? Comments? Suggestions?
 
Last edited:
¡Viva México cabrones!

Great Timeline! I agree in that there aren't enough México TLs. Most of the time, TLs in this forum have México end up as a rump republic or being completely annexed by the U.S.
 
I will join the group of "new" readers. I've been following this for a while, so I've finally decided to comment on this timeline. I must agree with eddyking77, it's good to see a timeline with a stronger Mexico, not annexed by the USA, Texas or the CSA. I'll keep following this ;)
 
This is pretty cool stuff!

Thanks! :)

¡Viva México cabrones!

Great Timeline! I agree in that there aren't enough México TLs. Most of the time, TLs in this forum have México end up as a rump republic or being completely annexed by the U.S.

First, I love your first sentence, it reeks of pure truth :cool:
And thanks, I wanted to show Mexico some love, and trust me soon once I get past independence it will get really interesting :D

I will join the group of "new" readers. I've been following this for a while, so I've finally decided to comment on this timeline. I must agree with eddyking77, it's good to see a timeline with a stronger Mexico, not annexed by the USA, Texas or the CSA. I'll keep following this ;)

Thanks for the interest, and trust me I share your guy's sentiment on going against the grain of giving Mexico the crappy fate it gets in most timelines (OTL included).

Again many thanks :D I'll try to update as soon as possible :)
 
Endgame: Cuba, México City and Veracruz (1813-1815)
Update time! I've managed to finally end the war for independence, so now I can begin the fun process of nation building. For those familiar with early XIX century México the ramifications of the Independence war ending 5-6 years earlier should be immediate. Whatever ideas you guys have, throw them at me :D I'd be more than happy to consider them for the TL!
Anyway, without further ado...

1813: The end of the Cuban War
The war in the Caribbean between Spain and the United States had been a success for the latter, for the most part. After several weeks of success the Americans were halted temporarily near Camagüey, before resuming their push east on 15 June 1813. After their defeat the Spanish on the island put up a final futile defense, but ultimately resigned to sacrificing Cuba to save New Spain. From July to October 1813 the Spanish tried to evacuate as many people, such as troops and lay people, off the island via the port Santiago de Cuba, before that city fell to the Americans on 18 October. Nearly all of the evacuees, among them deposed Captain General Juan Ruiz de Apodaca, would land at Veracruz and join the Royalist movement, with the remainder traveling to Spain. With all of Cuba under American jurisdiction, Winfield Scott was appointed to be Military Governor of Cuba, tasked with the job of pacifying the island and restoring some semblance of order. With fighting in Cuba all but over, the United States focus shifted solely to naval superiority over Spain. Beginning in November 1813, the United States began a naval blockade stretching from the Yucatán Peninsula to Havana and from Havana to Florida. This strategy, while not completely effective in negating the Spanish from entry into New Spain, would force incoming Spanish ships to travel farther south (as traffic would have to sail south of Cuba and Hispaniola in order to access the continent), thus compromising the supply line to the Royalists in New Spain.

1814-15: Endgame; the Battle of México City and the March to Veracruz
Back in New Spain, the Insurgent leaders met in Guanajuato, preparing for a charge at San Juan del Río, the nearest city under the control of Calleja. This attack, led by Allende and the Aldama brothers, would start in March of 1814, passing through the “birthplace of independence” in Querétaro before proceeding to engage Calleja’s Royalists. Morelos, in the meantime, would return to the south where his forces would push from Iguala north in order to take Cuernavaca, another Calleja stronghold. Allende’s charge would break through San Juan del Río on 5 April, pushing deep into Royalist territory before being slowed down by a force lead by Iturbide near the ruins of the Toltec capital at Tula near the end of the month. Iturbide and Allende would continue to shadow each other throughout May and into June, before fighting once more southeast of Pachuca on 11 June. The fight resulted in an Insurgent victory, but this news did not matter as much for Allende as did the news he received regarding the war in Europe. Apparently King Fernando VII had been reinstated to his throne in Spain and had rescinded the liberal Cadíz Constitution, claiming that the Cadíz Cortes had created the document in his absence, and thus it was an illegal document and the Cortes itself an illegal assembly. Judging that this was the moment both he and Morelos had been waiting for Allende personally declared full and total independence from Spain, claiming that “the right of the citizenry to form a just government does not originate through the will of a king, no less one sitting on a throne an ocean away. Rather it originates within the hearts and minds of the people, and only in them will the right to pursue a government that serves the people be found”. Within the next several weeks Morelos and his lieutenants Guerrero and Matamoros would issue similar statements, and on 18 August 1814 the Supreme Insurgent Cortes in Guadalajara would sever all ties to Fernando VII’s government. The president of the Cortes, Andrés Quintana Roo, whom up until then was serving his capacity in the name of “Fernando the desired,” renounced all ties with the king, and instead styled himself the “servant of the people.” The ramifications of Fernando VII’s “betrayal” would be far reaching indeed, as the nullification of the Cadíz Constitution would create a wide rift among the Royalist ranks, in terms of those more liberal-minded Peninsulares who just recently paraded the fact that the king championed the Constitution. This event would also cause many Criollos which had yet to decide which cause to join, or those among the Royalists who found Fernando VII’s absolutism too much to bear, to throw their lot with the Insurgents. The one man who was not affected much by the king’s change of heart was Viceroy Calleja, who embraced the king’s point of view and used it as an excuse to exercise a much harsher rule on his subjects. The end result was that, even with a stream of veteran soldiers from Spain landing at Veracruz (the stream becoming a trickle as the Spanish found it difficult to get much around the American blockade) the Insurgents slowly made valuable inroads into Royalist territory, taking Cuernavaca in June, Xochimilco in late August and by December Allende’s army had taken Ecatepec, once again within sight of México City.
6WXJWbl.jpg

General Agustín de Iturbide
In January of 1815 the Royalists would receive another major blow, with the defection of General Agustín de Iturbide to the Insurgents. Iturbide had recently being suspected and tried for alleged embezzlement of military funds, as well as testimony of disturbing and cruel behavior by some of his officers. Regardless Viceroy Calleja chose not to pursue the issue further and had Iturbide return to the field, but the incident embarrassed him and severely shook his trust with Calleja. Furthermore, Iturbide began to notice the writing on the wall and figured he would much rather be on the winning side of this war no matter who was the victor. It was not much of an understatement to say Allende was surprised about Iturbide’s sudden change of heart, considering both men had been mortal enemies for the past five years and of course did not trust him. Over the next several weeks both men would meet in private, discussing the terms by which Iturbide would join the Insurgents. Finally in early March Iturbide made it official and incorporated his force with Allende’s army. Needless to say Viceroy Calleja did not take the news very well (rumor has it Calleja threatened to shoot the boy who gave the him the message, frightening him so much he literally ran well passed the city limit, of course this story was not documented and should be considered hearsay). At this point Calleja knew defense of the capital would be a waste of manpower and left México City to its fate, as he and the upper echelons of his government, like his predecessor, fled to Veracruz on 30 March. Exuberant crowds greeted Allende’s Insurgent force as they entered México City, which was in Insurgent hands for the first time in four years. Morelos would arrive in México City one day later, uniting the whole of the Insurgent army, now a force of 75,000 battle hardened soldiers. In the intervening weeks between México City’s capture and Allende’s march to Veracruz, the Insurgents made sure to carefully plan out how to further engage Calleja. The Insurgent Cortes would also take the opportunity to relocate from Guadalajara to México City.
VynS0xK.jpg

The Insurgent Army enters México City, 31 March 1815
The Insurgents would commence their final operation against the Royalists in mid April 1815, with Allende pushing east towards Tlaxcala and Morelos towards Puebla. Tlaxcala fell in short order, and by the end of the month Allende had reached the outskirts of Xalapa. Morelos was not as quick in pacifying Puebla, but by the beginning of May had managed to run Arredondo out of the city and managed to hoist the Insurgent banner in the central plaza. After the fall of Puebla Morelos made short work of the retreating Royalists, capturing Orizaba on 12 May, then Córdoba on 15 May. By the end of the month Morelos engaged Arredondo to the southwest of Veracruz, resulting in stalemate. The same occurred with Allende, who was located northwest of the city, so after several rounds of correspondence the Insurgents decided to siege the city, knowing full well they had Calleja back up in a corner. The situation was so bad for the Royalists that the few ships that managed to get passed the American blockade were being sent back out to sea. Calleja’s predicament went from bad to worse on 10 June when over 20 American war ships entered the harbor at Veracruz, destroyed the few Spanish war ships anchored there and began bombardment of the port. The Royalists were now trapped, with no means of escape and no chance to win against the combined might of the Insurgents and their American backers. After several more days of siege, Calleja sent an emissary carrying a white flag for surrender on 16 June. The next day, on 17 June Calleja and Arredondo formally surrendered to both the Insurgents and the Americans, thus moving Calleja, Arredondo and roughly 13,000 Royalist soldiers into Insurgent custody. The Siege of Veracruz proved to be the final major battle in the war, as all major opposition to the Insurgents had been apprehended or had managed to escape the Viceroyalty. King Fernando VII was furious at the news of the Royalist capitulation, at first choosing not to recognize the surrender at Veracruz, though eventually he too recognized that for now there was nothing more he could do.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

Questions? Comments? Suggestions?


I'll try to have the next update up ASAP (which will concern the treaty that formally ends the war). After that things might get a bit slow...well, slower than usual :D since I start school on the 13th. Other than that...I hope you guys enjoy the update :)

 
Last edited:
Great update. It is good to see the brains of the Mexican Revolution intact. Will this lead to a politically and socially calmer Mexico? Any news on what is going on in the other Vice-royalties?
 
Great update. It is good to see the brains of the Mexican Revolution intact. Will this lead to a politically and socially calmer Mexico? Any news on what is going on in the other Vice-royalties?

Hehe yes indeed, or at least that is my intent. Considering TTL México isn't in as bad as shape as OTL (In OTL the silver mines that made up a lot of New Spain's economy were utterly destroyed after 11 years of war...here the war has been cut down to 5 years so the mines and the country as a whole are a lot better off). Not only that but as you pointed out the Intellectual leadership of the revolution is alive and well.

As for the other Viceroyalties (which I'll try to cover in the next few updates)...there's still some bugs to work out. Assuming Fernando decided to send the forces he originally was going to send to México to South America then that may mean trouble for Bolívar and friends...then again the fact that one Viceroyalty managed to break free of Madrid's control has implications all its own. Let also consider that at this point the US might consider extending aid farther south...and it's not like they would be compromising relations with Spain...:p

Interesting, consider me subscribed.

Hehe Muchas Gracias! :)
 
Last edited:
How does the US win a Spanish American war in 1813? :confused:

Well most of the war was fought at sea, and considering the US did fairly well on that front against Great Britain during OTL's War of 1812, I would think fighting Spain (who is at the moment fighting for its own independence against Napoleon) and who's navy was certainly not up to RN standards would be quite easy for the Americans.
 
Well most of the war was fought at sea, and considering the US did fairly well on that front against Great Britain during OTL's War of 1812, I would think fighting Spain (who is at the moment fighting for its own independence against Napoleon) and who's navy was certainly not up to RN standards would be quite easy for the Americans.

The difficulty is that if the Spanish still have ships of the line left those are going to be virtually unstoppable as the US has nothing to match them. I could see the US winning in Florida and making raids but they can't really win at sea.

It was a bit different in OTL 1812 conflict as Britain was able to impose some restrictions on America, which grew over time. Spain won't I think be trying to do that but to defend its own ports in the western hemisphere, which will be somewhat simpler. They could lose a lot of trade but with most of Spain under French control there could be relatively little of that anyway.

Steve
 

archaeogeek

Banned
The US in 1812 only has 13 frigates; they had the advantage, however, that the British were busy in Europe and India on sea too, since moving too many ships would mean even more french sorties. They're not going to win in linear naval warfare, the american navy is really mostly built around the idea that the best use for it is to hurt enemy supply lines so much they can cut off the enemy force from their metropolis and get them weaker (i.e. guerre de course).

If Spain is occupied, I don't think the colonies are grabbing more than a few SOL, and despite being frigates, the heavier three of the lot were probably able to take on a light two decker (older 64 and below, they'd still be hopelessly outmatched against a 74-equivalent).

So it's kind of dependent on what, exactly, the Spanish viceroys got their hands on after Bayonne.
 
Oh, these are interesting point you guys raise, and I'll admit my knowledge about both the Spanish Navy (or the USN for that matter) leaves much to the imagination.

Well I suppose we can agree that Florida can easily fall the the US...but is Cuba asking for too much? Bummer, I was growing on the idea of Cuba being included with the spoils.

Could I be bold and ask you guys for help regarding this Hispano-American war? Specifically how would this naval war pan out (assuming the US has already taken Florida, and is actively supporting the Mexican Insurgents), and how can the United States snatch victory? Thanks in advanced guys, and thanks for picking at the TL's inconsistencies, it's much appreciated. :eek:
 
Arkhangelsk

A lot depends on what Spain actually has available and how they use it navy wise. The US will pretty much be able to sail where they want as Spain won't be strong enough to blockade them. However, presuming the Spanish have a couple of SoL available they will be able to force the US navy away from any area the ships are. [Unless their able to get some defences in place or the Spanish are very poorly led].

Spain had a decent fleet prior to Trafalgar, in terms of ships and the crews may have been a bit better than the French, given they had more professionals. However they had been blockaded so had no real experience at sea. What the Spanish had left after 1805 I don't know. However once they were on the British side they would have had the chance to get experience at sea.

The other question is what was the opinion in Cuba at this point? By 1898 Spanish rule was very unpopular and the Americans were welcomed as liberators. How similar/different was the case in ~1815? America like Spain was a slave state at the time so no reason the black elements of the population would welcome them. Also its a fairly new state still so there's no experience of what it will be like as a potential governor.

I can see the Americans, if they wish, landing forces in Cuba. Provided they can get forces as they had problems in OTL 1812 getting militia to leave their home state. However, if the Spanish can organise a decent navy, the Americans would have problems supplying and reinforcing such a force. Hence it could go either way.

Steve

Oh, these are interesting point you guys raise, and I'll admit my knowledge about both the Spanish Navy (or the USN for that matter) leaves much to the imagination.

Well I suppose we can agree that Florida can easily fall the the US...but is Cuba asking for too much? Bummer, I was growing on the idea of Cuba being included with the spoils.

Could I be bold and ask you guys for help regarding this Hispano-American war? Specifically how would this naval war pan out (assuming the US has already taken Florida, and is actively supporting the Mexican Insurgents), and how can the United States snatch victory? Thanks in advanced guys, and thanks for picking at the TL's inconsistencies, it's much appreciated. :eek:
 
The other question is what was the opinion in Cuba at this point? By 1898 Spanish rule was very unpopular and the Americans were welcomed as liberators. How similar/different was the case in ~1815? America like Spain was a slave state at the time so no reason the black elements of the population would welcome them. Also its a fairly new state still so there's no experience of what it will be like as a potential governor.
If I recall correctly the Cubans feared there would be Anglicization and this was one of the primary reasons they remained loyal to Spain. But I think I read that in the Kingdom of Poland-Armenia so take it lightly.
 
I've been giving this a lot of thought, considering I've established the war as part of the TL I'll keep it for the most part. For all intents and purposes, following stevep's last sentence, let's assume the war went for the Americans. Now that Spain doesn't have Napoleon breathing down their necks, would a naval war between the US and Spain continue for a few more years?

Bear in mind in the likely event that I pull a Ver. 2 in the future, I'll certainly include the ideas you have all proposed into the new TL.

For the mean time, I'll be focusing on Spain's efforts to keep South America, and how the wars down there will pan out now that Spain isn't fighting in Mexico.
 

archaeogeek

Banned
I've been giving this a lot of thought, considering I've established the war as part of the TL I'll keep it for the most part. For all intents and purposes, following stevep's last sentence, let's assume the war went for the Americans. Now that Spain doesn't have Napoleon breathing down their necks, would a naval war between the US and Spain continue for a few more years?

Bear in mind in the likely event that I pull a Ver. 2 in the future, I'll certainly include the ideas you have all proposed into the new TL.

For the mean time, I'll be focusing on Spain's efforts to keep South America, and how the wars down there will pan out now that Spain isn't fighting in Mexico.

On one point though, checking further: if the war is naval the US could get the upper hand, shortly, so long as they stick strictly to privateering; if they're generous, loaning naval architects to Mexico might well be a good thing since they built some of the best frigates at that time, the only way they could do any better is if they somehow got their hands on a french naval engineering team ;) - if the line of battle gets involved, all the US can do is run away, but if it can break it up and catch the two-deckers in bad weather, they have the advantage. The three deckers are pretty much useless outside of line actions and were kept in Europe anyway afaik.
 
On one point though, checking further: if the war is naval the US could get the upper hand, shortly, so long as they stick strictly to privateering; if they're generous, loaning naval architects to Mexico might well be a good thing since they built some of the best frigates at that time, the only way they could do any better is if they somehow got their hands on a french naval engineering team ;) - if the line of battle gets involved, all the US can do is run away, but if it can break it up and catch the two-deckers in bad weather, they have the advantage. The three deckers are pretty much useless outside of line actions and were kept in Europe anyway afaik.

Very interesting, thanks archaeogeek! :)
I think a trip to the library is in order, I want to be well versed in this stuff...with some luck I should have a new update up soon...again muchas gracias guys!
 
Top