¡Por la Patria, Viva México Fuerte! A Mexican TL

[Plumber]

Excellent update! Finally, it looks like Mexico is not so far from God after all... ¡Viva México!

I'm interested to see how exactly this slave revolt started.

 

[Vault boy]

Post full of epic win

Glorious... Glorious... manly tears have been shed.

I can see baseball and football (soccer) becoming popular in Mexico.

IOTL, Baseball was quite popular here in Mexico, until the late 50's/early 60's. Then Televisa started to promote Soccer, and being the only TV broadcaster at a national level more or less discouraged further expansion of Baseball, which nowadays the leagues here in Mexico face a crapload of logistic problems, . I sort of expect Baseball being more popular, if only because of the subsequent Mexican-American rivalry that it's likely going to be down the road.

 

[jycee]

Thank you my good sir, you're too kind

Hehe let's not discount your own TL, the Mexicans there still eek out a victory. The war still has a little ways to go, but yup the writing is already on the wall, the US has all but lost.

Well technically in my TL, Mexico still looses the war but gets a milder peace than OTL; it simply proves to be somewhat beneficial in the long term.

IOTL, Baseball was quite popular here in Mexico, until the late 50's/early 60's. Then Televisa started to promote Soccer, and being the only TV broadcaster at a national level more or less discouraged further expansion of Baseball, which nowadays the leagues here in Mexico face a crapload of logistic problems, . I sort of expect Baseball being more popular, if only because of the subsequent Mexican-American rivalry that it's likely going to be down the road.

Or for exactly these reasons baseball won't become popular in Mexico. Less US investors/entrepreneurs/filibusters/stationed soldiers in Mexico

Maybe Mexico develops a regional sport in TTL. I could easily see sport-clubs and universities getting inspired by the Maya/Aztec Ballgame in the late 1800s into developing a basketball/padel analog that quickly spreads across Latin America.

 

[othyrsyde]

Well technically in my TL, Mexico still looses the war but gets a milder peace than OTL; it simply proves to be somewhat beneficial in the long term.

As your TL shows, when we fall, and as long as we don't shatter all our bones in the process (Mexico OTL), we learn from our mistakes.

Or for exactly these reasons baseball won't become popular in Mexico. Less US investors/entrepreneurs/filibusters/stationed soldiers in Mexico

Maybe Mexico develops a regional sport in TTL. I could easily see sport-clubs and universities getting inspired by the Maya/Aztec Ballgame in the late 1800s into developing a basketball/padel analog that quickly spreads across Latin America.

That'd be boss to see a ball-game revival.

Also, it might be too late by this point, but it'd be cool to see pulque stay the beverage of choice. My Buelito use to complain about beer; he called it what roughly translates from Mixtec as 'mule piss' (I'm near illiterate in Spanish, and completely in Mixtec so I won't even try and spell it).

 

[jycee]

As your TL shows, when we fall, and as long as we don't shatter all our bones in the process (Mexico OTL), we learn from our mistakes.

Jaja kinda true. Though the other side of the argument is that because we haven't fallen and shattered all our bones we haven't learned the lesson jaja.

That'd be boss to see a ball-game revival.

It couldn't possibly be ball-game, since it was more of a ritual than a sport. But I reckon you could get something like basketball with the hoop to its side, and always having to shoot from father away (the 3-point line). I mentioned padel as another possible example because of how the walls are used (unlike tennis you have walls to bounce the ball from). Duuno, I have something of the stile planned from my TL. Just need to get back to writting it. Been swamped with work. Hopefully the holidays will gimme a break (though this is the first year I don't get vacations so we'll see).

Also, it might be too late by this point, but it'd be cool to see pulque stay the beverage of choice. My Buelito use to complain about beer; he called it what roughly translates from Mixtec as 'mule piss' (I'm near illiterate in Spanish, and completely in Mixtec so I won't even try and spell it).

Mmm... interesting idea. I know there is a big problem with pulque (hygiene myths aside) in which it doesn't have too long a shelf life. That made distribution much harder than beer. But I reckon some clever pulque-lover could figure it out.

 

[Archangel]

Excellent update!
Mexico defeated a stronger opponent.

 

[Arkhangelsk]

Aaaaahhhh belatedness!!! The recent downtime didn't help either, but apologies

Fascinating. What will the consequences of the slave revolt be? This, coupled with the loss in war, will have a big effect on the culture and psyche of the US. Great update!

Cheers,
Ganesha

Thanks Ganesha! The consequences for Cuba are gonna be big...and quite ugly I'm afraid. I'll be going into greater detail in the next update, since I'll be talking about the end of the uprising and the aftermath of the war as a whole in the US, but off the top of my head expect a harsher white American rule on the island. A great deal of free blacks, slaves and even Spanish Cubans which had remained on the island after American annexation will flee, mostly to Mexico over the course of the next generation.

You're right about that last point, manifest destiny will be discredited beyond repair. Sectional differences vis-a-vis the northern and southern States will boil over much faster, especially considering the North was technically able to expand with Oregon, but Southern expansion was permanently halted. Expect the South to point the blame for the loss of the war on the Whigs and the North in general.

Indeed, If it weren't for the California theater, Mexico would be invading sovereign U.S. territory. Not to say that the Mexican Army did not have this capability. But for now I can imagine Mexico forcing the U.S. to abandon all claims and pay off damages.

I agree. The fighting in California will last through to the end of the war, mainly since it's still so isolated from the rest of Mexico. But yeah, whether or not Mexico manages to invade American territory the war will end with what you described.

Again, great update! Like in the last one, the Americans are presented well in being a powerful adversary, wreaking lots of havoc, but a better prepared Mexico is making them pay for every attack and beating them back. Love how having Cuba is actually turning into a massive liability for the States. The pathfinder-like victory in California was hella sick too.

All Mexico needs to do now is push them out of the northeast, and their territory is secure.

Thanks othyrsyde! The Americans were no joke of course, and as much as it would bring me joy to have the Mexicans bring on some real pwnage I tried to show how equal in strength they both were in relation to each other TTL. I'm glad that shows. Indeed, as I alluded to above Cuba will only become more of a liability post-war.

Thanks! The inspiration for that Californio victory came during my recent drive down to Los Angeles, the part of Tejon Pass I mentioned has very steep sides and has large unstable rocks strewn all over.

Well shit, Mexico is going to win this thing.

Yes they are!

Well Shit.....you just destroyed Scott's career.

Indeed, feel kinda bad doing that to the old man, but then I don't. lol

Well, Mexico will win.

How are you going to cover the 1848 revolutions in Europe?

How is the Pacific going?

I can see baseball and football (soccer) becoming popular in Mexico.

Good update.

The 1848 revolutions are coming up next after I wrap up the Mexican-American War. Up to this point the butterflies have been few and gradually noticable. 1848 will the game changer, Europe will really start to deviate from OTL after this.

Admittedly I still don't quite know what to do regarding some European countries, so if anyone has any interesting suggestions by all means I'll gladly take 'em.

As for the Pacific, it's seen the least butterflies thus far. Hawaii is still pretty much OTL, save for an increased Mexican presence. I won't be getting in-depth into the Pacific until after the American Civil War (post-1870).

Regarding sports, jycee answered it better than I could.

Wow! As epic as ever!

How big is this slave rebellion going to get? I worry about the inevitable backlash, and the ensuing massacres. Also, the slave power will only get more belligerent if they know that they can't expand farther west than Texas. Is there an equivalent to the Knights of the Golden Circle present in these United States?

Thanks dude! I touched on this when I responded to Ganesha, but you're correct on all counts. The rebellion in Cuba will encompass nearly all of the island. The backlash will be horrific to say the least, you can bet the Anglo-Americans blaming the loss of the war to Mexico on "traitorous Cuba." The backlash will also extend to the mainland, despite there never being any real threat of revolt throughout the rest of the South.

My only real complaint is I wish you'd break up your text into paragraphs a bit more. Other than that, interesting.

Lol I always feel my paragraphs are too short, but I see what you mean. I'll make sure to remember for next time. Thanks Zinc!

 

[Kosta]

Aaaaahhhh belatedness!!! The recent downtime didn't help either, but apologies

Juan, I was a big fan of your new updates; I found the battle scenes and the climax of the War to be quite exhilarating. Well done, old boy!

 

[jycee]

I'm kinda realizing that - somewhat ironically - Agustin de Iturbide will likely be remembered as one of Mexico's Greatest Presidents in TTL. Even if he keeps the nickname of the Imperial President.

He would have won the war against the US. And if he manages the aftermath well enough, his administration will also be responsible for the settling and securing of the northern territories, the expansion of an industrial base for Mexico, and perhaps its first imperial venture outside its borders. That is a pretty hard legacy to spoil.

As for the Pacific, it's seen the least butterflies thus far. Hawaii is still pretty much OTL, save for an increased Mexican presence. I won't be getting in-depth into the Pacific until after the American Civil War (post-1870).

Mexican presence in Hawaii? Will Mexico be upto some imperialist shenanigans in the Pacific later on?

 

[ZincOxide]

He would have won the war against the US. And if he manages the aftermath well enough, his administration will also be responsible for the settling and securing of the northern territories, the expansion of an industrial base for Mexico, and perhaps its first imperial venture outside its borders. That is a pretty hard legacy to spoil.

Indeed, it could be later generations look to him much as OTL's Americans look to Washington or Lincoln: a pivotal figure who set their country on the path it still treads (to an extent) centuries later.

In terms of internal economic growth in Mexico, I wonder if there might be bank panics that throw some real wrenches in the works, and which would inevitably give rise to some kind of popular movement to try and remedy the worst of those excesses: I can see a loose coalition of Indians in the northern territories, farmers, urban workers, and maybe some of the smaller business-owners who got squeezed out by larger companies getting first call on bank loans during the lean years while the bank panic slowly recedes.

.... which makes me wonder who the Mexican version of FDR will be, when an economic crisis finally hits so hard someone has to come to the helm and boldly proclaim a new way of doing things.

Nuevo Ganga, perhaps? ("New Bargain")

 

[Arkhangelsk]

Excellent update! Finally, it looks like Mexico is not so far from God after all... ¡Viva México!

I'm interested to see how exactly this slave revolt started.

Thanks man indeed, God seems to be more distant from the United States here hehe

Do you mean the underlying causes and what preceding events led to the Revolt, or the event that sparked the whole thing?

Glorious... Glorious... manly tears have been shed.


IOTL, Baseball was quite popular here in Mexico, until the late 50's/early 60's. Then Televisa started to promote Soccer, and being the only TV broadcaster at a national level more or less discouraged further expansion of Baseball, which nowadays the leagues here in Mexico face a crapload of logistic problems, . I sort of expect Baseball being more popular, if only because of the subsequent Mexican-American rivalry that it's likely going to be down the road.

Thanks Vault! posting these last few updates and showing just how much kickass the Mexicans have makes me happy

I haven't thought it all out yet, but excellent ideas from all of you, jycee, othyrsyde and Vault! I've previously talked to others about reviving one of the pre-Columbian games like that, and I'm all for it. Jycee's right, it'll be something that come's about in the 1870's or 80's as sports clubs begin to form in the major cities and as university attendance gradually increases. I also love that Padel idea jycee, and I hope you have time to work on your TL, it's one of my favorites!

Othyrsyde's mention of pulque also reminds me that I've been thinking the same, lol. I'm wanting to make pulque a bigger thing TTL...and maybe tequila. Perhaps someone begins growing it in California or something, eventually preventing Jalisco from monopolizing the tequila business.

Excellent update!
Mexico defeated a stronger opponent.

Thanks Archangel! Indeed they have, breaks away from the usual Ameriwanking.

Juan, I was a big fan of your new updates; I found the battle scenes and the climax of the War to be quite exhilarating. Well done, old boy!

Thanks Kosta! The battle scenes in particular were fun to work on, I'm glad you enjoyed them.

I'm kinda realizing that - somewhat ironically - Agustin de Iturbide will likely be remembered as one of Mexico's Greatest Presidents in TTL. Even if he keeps the nickname of the Imperial President.

He would have won the war against the US. And if he manages the aftermath well enough, his administration will also be responsible for the settling and securing of the northern territories, the expansion of an industrial base for Mexico, and perhaps its first imperial venture outside its borders. That is a pretty hard legacy to spoil.


Mexican presence in Hawaii? Will Mexico be upto some imperialist shenanigans in the Pacific later on?

Lol it's even more ironic considering I originally never intended for Iturbide's star to shine so brightly, but irony can be fun. Indeed the nickname will probably lose it's pejorative nature as time goes on. I will say that the last few years of his administration will not be the best for him, as the political climate in Mexico City turns against him. The war was basically the only thing keeping him in power after his second term.

Mexican Hawaii? Perhaps lol truthfully I dunno if Mexico will pull a McKinley, but later events will make it so that Mexican influence on the islands rivals only the UK. That won't be for a while though.

Indeed, it could be later generations look to him much as OTL's Americans look to Washington or Lincoln: a pivotal figure who set their country on the path it still treads (to an extent) centuries later.

In terms of internal economic growth in Mexico, I wonder if there might be bank panics that throw some real wrenches in the works, and which would inevitably give rise to some kind of popular movement to try and remedy the worst of those excesses: I can see a loose coalition of Indians in the northern territories, farmers, urban workers, and maybe some of the smaller business-owners who got squeezed out by larger companies getting first call on bank loans during the lean years while the bank panic slowly recedes.

.... which makes me wonder who the Mexican version of FDR will be, when an economic crisis finally hits so hard someone has to come to the helm and boldly proclaim a new way of doing things.

Nuevo Ganga, perhaps? ("New Bargain")

You bring up a good point Zinc, one I haven't given adequate time to study. I can't quite point out when a "Mexican FDR" will show up. I am planning some sort of economic crisis to come about around 1875 or later. I do have plans for one of Mexico's "great" leaders to take the helm around the turn of the century, so maybe around then you may see something like that.

 

[Vault boy]

Nuevo Ganga, perhaps? ("New Bargain")

Sería en realidad "Nueva Ganga". Though, that would sound a bit uncultured. A more cultured, even if it feels a bit generic, term for this equivalent event could be "El Nuevo Tratado".

But alas, that's a good idea, I say.

Thanks Vault! posting these last few updates and showing just how much kickass the Mexicans have makes me happy

I haven't thought it all out yet, but excellent ideas from all of you, jycee, othyrsyde and Vault! I've previously talked to others about reviving one of the pre-Columbian games like that, and I'm all for it. Jycee's right, it'll be something that come's about in the 1870's or 80's as sports clubs begin to form in the major cities and as university attendance gradually increases. I also love that Padel idea jycee, and I hope you have time to work on your TL, it's one of my favorites!

Othyrsyde's mention of pulque also reminds me that I've been thinking the same, lol. I'm wanting to make pulque a bigger thing TTL...and maybe tequila. Perhaps someone begins growing it in California or something, eventually preventing Jalisco from monopolizing the tequila business.

Once someone figures out pasteurization, Pulque could become more regionalized. However, the only thing that might cause a bit of trouble is the fact that the Agave plant is very delicate and not easy at all to cultivate outside of its original environments.
And talking about ball games, there's the Ulama. Maybe this time it won't be just a Sinaloan ball game after all...

You bring up a good point Zinc, one I haven't given adequate time to study. I can't quite point out when a "Mexican FDR" will show up. I am planning some sort of economic crisis to come about around 1875 or later. I do have plans for one of Mexico's "great" leaders to take the helm around the turn of the century, so maybe around then you may see something like that.

If you allow me to suggest, I'd like to put forward either José Ives Limantour.

 

[Unknown]

Hope you had a good Christmas and New Year.

Where's the next update?

 

[Arkhangelsk]

Sería en realidad "Nueva Ganga". Though, that would sound a bit uncultured. A more cultured, even if it feels a bit generic, term for this equivalent event could be "El Nuevo Tratado".

But alas, that's a good idea, I say.


Once someone figures out pasteurization, Pulque could become more regionalized. However, the only thing that might cause a bit of trouble is the fact that the Agave plant is very delicate and not easy at all to cultivate outside of its original environments.
And talking about ball games, there's the Ulama. Maybe this time it won't be just a Sinaloan ball game after all...


If you allow me to suggest, I'd like to put forward either José Ives Limantour.

Hm do you think agave would be able to grow in other parts of Mexico...as in places it isn't grown in already in OTL? I didn't know that about pasteurization though, that's good to know.

Excellent find with Limantour! Aside from him I also have a fictional character that won't be appearing til the 20th century. I've also toyed around with ideas concerning Octavio Paz's father.

Hope you had a good Christmas and New Year.

Where's the next update?

Thanks dude! I did as a matter of fact, I hope the same for you.

I've got the next update started but it's not even 10% done at the moment so it won't be for a while. After I wrap up the War I'll be doing two updates, one on the European revolutions and one on the United States during the 1850's. Don't know which I'll get to first.

 

[Arkhangelsk]

Started on this after I posted the last update, but I lagged it. Maps are fun

 

[Deleted member 67076]

Dios mio! Dat map!

 

[Alex Richards]

Just finished reading through this. Bravo indeed and very well written.

 

[Razgriz 2K9]

Impressive map, can't wait for the peace.

I'm laughing evily right now.

 

[jycee]

Cool! Thanks for the map.

The peace should be interesting, though I can't quite see anyone winning or loosing much here. The US might have to pay some reparations money, but land/border wise its likely to stay just as it is.

Keep it up Arkhangelsk!

 

[ZincOxide]

Nice! Now I can get an idea of the battle fronts. It looks like the USA tried a two-pronged attack which, normally, would easily succeed in scooping a lot of land away from Mexico, but here, it seems Mexican forces will be able to counterattack more easily and stop that from happening.