¡Por la Patria, Viva México Fuerte! A Mexican TL

Spain Victorious: the Peruvian Exception
Again sorry for the wait, been having trouble lately ending these updates. >.>

Just in case you're all wondering, the next update will be on Mexico, so hang on tight. ;)

Spain Victorious: the Peruvian Exception

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Antonio José de Sucre

Immediately after the Libertador’s untimely death the Republicans, led by General Antonio José de Sucre, renewed their push into Quito with renewed vigor. Most of the province fell in short order, allowing them to coerce the independent “Free Province of Guayaquil” to merge with the rest of Colombia. Soon after Guayaquil’s fall plans were drawn for the immediate liberation of Perú. Sucre received overall command of the liberating army of over 4,000, and on 2 July 1821 he began the invasion of the last viceroyalty still under Spanish control. The harsh environment of Northern Perú took a heavy toll on Sucre’s men, as many succumbed to the mountain cold of the Andes before arriving at Trujillo on 18 August. Sucre and his men received a warm welcome in Trujillo, as it was the main republican stronghold within the whole viceroyalty, having declared independence that previous December. After resting his troops and gaining some fresh Peruvian recruits, Sucre would continue his march southward, arriving in Lima on 5 September, where Sucre would meet the great liberator of Río de la Plata, José de San Martin. The two generals would meet for several rounds of talks, concerning the future of Perú and what form of government should replace the decrepit colonial administration. The talks, spanning all of September, seemed to be fruitless from the very beginning, as Sucre and San Martin clashed on the subject of future governance. San Martin, holding monarchist sympathies, was content establishing a constitutional monarchy headed by a European prince. Sucre on the other hand, a staunch Republican, firmly rejected that proposition in lieu of turning Perú into a republic. Neither one of them could reach a compromise on that front, so both men committed to simply focus on stamping out the Spanish threat, though that commitment soon fell by the wayside. San Martin was well aware of the lack of popular support for independence in Perú that was so evident elsewhere in Spanish America. He understood that outright confrontation would be very risky, and more often than not relied on diplomacy to win over the Peruvians as opposed to direct confrontation with the much larger Spanish Army. Sucre, despite his greatest attributes as a general, refused to employ such tactics, and as such cooperation between the two armies diminished. Viceroy José de la Serna, who had established himself in Cuzco after San Martin’s seizure of Lima, still held much of the Peruvian Andes, and with the support and leadership of General Pedro Antonio Olañeta, the Spanish intended to retain this swath of South America for the empire [1]. La Serna’s first goal dealt with the recapture of the capital at Lima and the port facilities at Callao. After the decisive Spanish victory against San Martin’s forces at Huamanga, the Spanish Army split in two, one force led by Olañeta would move north towards the Mantaro Valley, while a second force, led by French-born Spaniard José de Canterac, would move east toward the town of Ica, near the Pacific coast [2]. Olañeta would engage Sucre south of Huancayo, at the southern mouth of the Mantaro Valley, fighting the inconclusive 1st Battle of Huancayo. The opposing armies would reengage several days later on 7 October 1821 with Sucre taking the field. Olañeta managed to regroup his forces and retreat into the mountains before pushing once more into the valley on 13 October. The 2nd Battle of Huancayo ended with a Royalist victory, forcing Sucre and his men to retreat toward the city of Jauja near the valley’s northern edge. After another defeat at the hands of Olañeta near the Mantaro River south of Jauja, Sucre would retreat to his west, before moving north after recieveing news that Canterac had taken Lima. Running out of options, Sucre would move back to his remaining support base at Trujillo, arriving on 15 November. It was here that Sucre learned the exact details of Lima’s fall, via a letter he received from San Martin. After San Martin’s forces failed to stop Canterac’s advance up the Pacific coast, a last ditch effort to stop the Royalist advance outside Lima was put in place. It too failed and Canterac entered Lima, supported by some of the city’s inhabitants which had quickly grown tired of San Martin’s “Protectorate.” Despite the futility of the moment, the Republicans attempted one final stand at the port of Callao. Canterac would comment on his enemy’s tenacity, as the Republicans, though cornered and heavily outnumbered, refused to surrender for over two weeks. In the early morning hours of 18 October the majority of the remaining Republicans, as well as San Martin, set out in boats to be picked up by the Chilean Navy off the coast of Callao (Lord Cochrane having abandoned San Martin in September over disputes regarding pay for his men as well as issues of policy). San Martin would arrive to see a somber Valparaiso on 8 November, from which he would travel back to his old home in Mendoza in the former Río de la Plata.

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Battle of Huamanga

Back in Trujillo, Sucre immediately appealed for more support, sending messengers back to Bogotá for more reinforcements. President Santander, though reluctant, dispatched an additional 1,700 troops to Trujillo. With the additional Colombian troops, as well as Peruvians recruited from all over Northern Perú thanks to Trujillo’s former Intendant José Bernardo de Tagle, Sucre initiated a second campaign into Royalist held territory in February 1822, making it as far as the coastal town of Barranca before engaging Royalists at the Battle of Pativilca River on 12 March 1822. Both armies arrived at a stalemate, as neither one could establish effective control of the Pativilca estuary. The tide turned in late March when additional reinforcements from Spain arrived in Lima. Though the majority of the reinforcements that would arrive to Olañeta’s side at Barranca would actually be natives of the viceroyalty, the presence of reinforcements proved a major morale booster, so much so that the stalemate broke in the Royalists favor on 27 March. Having lost a significant portion of his men, Sucre returned back to Trujillo, in an attempt to rally more support, but was unable to rest much along the way as the fiery Olañeta pursued him and his men back up to Trujillo, itself seething from a recent Spanish naval raid. Without many options left for him, Sucre chose to abandon Trujillo, leading his remaining troops and a handful of Peruvian Republicans up to Guayaquil. The Royalists wasted no time in teaching the populace of Trujillo the price for straying away from the crown, executing as many Republicans as they could find and initiating a campaign of terror on the population of Northern Perú. This somber note marked the end of the last significant attempt by the independent nations of South America to free Perú. As San Martin aptly put it, “the Peruvians, and only them, are the only ones capable of freeing their country.” The Santander government would sanction additional raids into Northern Perú in 1823 and 1825 in attempts to prompt revolution, but the will to continue the fight had already been extinguished. Spain, despite the odds, had managed to retain the last bit of its American empire it had left, and spent the remainder of 1822 and 1823 ensuring that Perú would remain with the crown [3].

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[1] In OTL Olañeta gets into a spat with De la Serna over the latter's recognition of the 1812 Constitution forced down Fernando VII's throat in 1819-20 (Olañeta was big on absolutism). TTL De la Serna play's it a bit more safe and keeps Olañeta in line, preventing the Spanish forces from splitting like they did OTL.
[2] Bolivar isn't around TTL to rename the village of Huamanga to Ayacucho, and yay for irony!
[3] Bear in mind, the presence of more Royalists in Perú from the get go (many going there after Nueva Granada/Río de la Plata/México fell), and a few better decisions made my Charlie the V back home helped with Perú remaining with the empire.
 
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The hispanophone Canada! The hispanophone Canada! :eek::eek::eek:
The prophecy (read: an old thread on its feasibility) turned out to be true!!!
More seriously, your ATL Latinoamerica is one of the best I've ever met on AH.com: heterogeneous, really revolutionary and not doomed to long-lasting political and economical irrelevance (well, looking at the title at least Mexico isn't). It's like Look to the West, only completely different, if you know what I mean.

Now a couple of thoughts:
-British colonies in Central America + Guyana are better left untouched by Mexico and Gran Colombia ATM, but what's going to happen decades in the future? Could we see them merging peacefully with their neighbouring super-states via referendum or is conflict (diplomatic or even military) unavoidable? By the way, what's the attitude of the European nations (Spain doesn't count, it's kind of obvious) towards these new, politically stable, American entities?
-How many chances has Gran Colombia to become a major player in the continental scene? Is it really more stable than its OTL version or is there a low-level fissure between Colombians and Venezuelans? Having Bolivàr there until his death may have been a great help for unity, but maybe it's too much asking for another super-state in Latinoamerica (you can't expect every revolution to be flawless, after all).

See you soon!
 
Bravo!! Awesome!!

How big is TTL's Peru BTW? Does it include Bolivia? I reckon there will be some border alteration between Peru/Bolivia and Argentina.

There is also the matter of British meddling for the possibility of creating Uruguay. If Argentina happens to be somewhat stabler this might be prevented, perhaps.
 
The hispanophone Canada! The hispanophone Canada! :eek::eek::eek:
The prophecy (read: an old thread on its feasibility) turned out to be true!!!
More seriously, your ATL Latinoamerica is one of the best I've ever met on AH.com: heterogeneous, really revolutionary and not doomed to long-lasting political and economical irrelevance (well, looking at the title at least Mexico isn't). It's like Look to the West, only completely different, if you know what I mean.

Now a couple of thoughts:
-British colonies in Central America + Guyana are better left untouched by Mexico and Gran Colombia ATM, but what's going to happen decades in the future? Could we see them merging peacefully with their neighbouring super-states via referendum or is conflict (diplomatic or even military) unavoidable? By the way, what's the attitude of the European nations (Spain doesn't count, it's kind of obvious) towards these new, politically stable, American entities?
-How many chances has Gran Colombia to become a major player in the continental scene? Is it really more stable than its OTL version or is there a low-level fissure between Colombians and Venezuelans? Having Bolivàr there until his death may have been a great help for unity, but maybe it's too much asking for another super-state in Latinoamerica (you can't expect every revolution to be flawless, after all).

See you soon!

Haha I remember that thread, and believe me Spanish Peru ain't going anywhere anytime soon. ;) and I up and nearly fainted when you compared my timeline to LTTW, it makes me so happy to hear that! :D Thank you for those awesome words, I'm glad all of the studying I have done has borne fruit. :)

Excellent points, and you're correct, for now Latin America is keeping it's hands off British Honduras, Miskito Coast, etc. as they owe Britain for the help (in varying degrees) they received for independence. Whether there will be a war or a peaceful referendum over these territories I've yet to figure out...it will be a surprise. XD

As for Latin America's relationship with Europe, it varies. Britain is very interested in these new states and the new markets they potentially represent. In terms of European states Britain was the first to recognize the new countries. To a lesser extent the same can be said of France.

As for Gran Colombia, I'm afraid that low lying fissure is there, and it won't be long before it cracks open. Short answer is yes, Colombia and Venezuela will split...but...unlike OTL that split won't be permanent. ;)

Thanks for the analysis and comments, if you have any more questions feel free to ask. :)

An, I've been waiting for a Loyalist Peru :D

Haha I'm glad you don't have to wait any longer, it's nice to spice things up a bit. Soon I'll post a supplementary update to this one explaining the creation of the "Peruvian Dominion" and it's new relationship with Spain.

Bravo!! Awesome!!

How big is TTL's Peru BTW? Does it include Bolivia? I reckon there will be some border alteration between Peru/Bolivia and Argentina.

There is also the matter of British meddling for the possibility of creating Uruguay. If Argentina happens to be somewhat stabler this might be prevented, perhaps.

Thanks jycee! :)

At this point Peru encompasses more or less what it did as the Peru-Bolivian Confederation in OTL. They don't have Guayaquil (but they're itching to get it back) and they stretch down into the Gran Chaco. I'll post a map of South America soon. Also you're right, the border between Peru, Argentina and Chile will be a major issue, now and for pretty much the next century.

Ah, as a matter of fact that's exactly what more or less has happened regarding Uruguay. I'll iron that little detail in an update on Brazil (I'll probably be background on Brazil-Argentine relations after independence).

I am very much pleased. :)

Eeeeeexcellent! :cool:

I'll begin work on our resurgent Spain very soon. ;)

Nice! *looks forward to more* :)

Haha thanks Zinc, you're awesome! :D

Yes! I am liking the update. And finally Perú doesn't get independized because the revolutionaries said so. :D

Thanks Vault, I'm glad you approve of the update. Things "might" have worked out had everyone listened to San Martin, but it seems nobody ever listens to San Martin. Anyway I hope you enjoy Spanish Canada. :D

Btw, I hope Christmas was well to you all. :)
 
Here's something I threw together real quick, to give you guys a good picture of the situation at the end of the previous update.

MAP_Alternate_South_America-1825 PLP3_5.png
 
I'm thinking this Spanish Peru might turn out to be very interesting... specially border relations with Paraguay, Argentina and Chile. (And Uruguay if there will be an Uruguay in the future).

I reckon it won't be past Argentina or Colombia to try to insite a revolt if their relationship with the Spanish isn't great.

Chile and Paraguay might be wild cards on who they side with. Ultimately I can see either a series of wars or a sort of greater south american conflict that mixes a Platine War, a Pacific War, and a revolution anti-monarchist uprising in Peru. And the thing is it can be quite evenly matched., depending on the alliances. Who knows?
 
The other thing I'd be interested to see is if Mexico becomes a dominant power in the region, how the different states in South America will respond to that.

In Canada we sometimes said we were like a mouse next to the US elephant. I wonder if something similar might happen, especially with the (enlarged) Colombia under Bolivar pushing for its own domestic and foreign policy.
 
Hope Spanish Peru has a good future ahead.

Keep it up, Arkhangelsk!:)

Their future is gonna be pretty rocky...but I won't be too rough on them. ;)

Thanks for your support Archangel! :)

I'm thinking this Spanish Peru might turn out to be very interesting... specially border relations with Paraguay, Argentina and Chile. (And Uruguay if there will be an Uruguay in the future).

I reckon it won't be past Argentina or Colombia to try to insite a revolt if their relationship with the Spanish isn't great.

Chile and Paraguay might be wild cards on who they side with. Ultimately I can see either a series of wars or a sort of greater south american conflict that mixes a Platine War, a Pacific War, and a revolution anti-monarchist uprising in Peru. And the thing is it can be quite evenly matched., depending on the alliances. Who knows?

Indeed, from the get go Peru is surrounded by hostile nations from the north and south. As it stands at this point in the TL the Spanish in Peru will have some breathing space (and some more good luck territoriality speaking) as both Colombia and Argentina are still in the process of consolidating their independence...things are gonna get pretty messy in the short term, especially for Colombia. You're right though, they're gonna take advantage of any sign of rebellion within Peru.

Uruguay I'm intending to remain an Argentine possession for the long haul, Paraguay is a bit more tricky, I haven't decided what I'll be doing with it going forward.

All the war scenarios you listed are all possibilities at this point (and really good ideas! :D) so only time...and TONS of research...will tell. I intend South America to be dynamic and really interesting (not that it isn't in OTL, despite how others portray it).

The other thing I'd be interested to see is if Mexico becomes a dominant power in the region, how the different states in South America will respond to that.

In Canada we sometimes said we were like a mouse next to the US elephant. I wonder if something similar might happen, especially with the (enlarged) Colombia under Bolivar pushing for its own domestic and foreign policy.

They'll respond differently alright, especially (lol I keep on going back to it but it's true :p) once we hit the end of the century and Mexico is able to throw some weight around, it's gonna command the attention of pretty much everyone in the entire hemisphere. Relations will be the most dynamic with the Caribbean (once Cuba gains it's independence) and Colombia, as they're the closest to Mexico.

It's interesting that you posit that possible dynamic between Mexico and Colombia, especially once Mexico becomes really powerful you might see this movement with the other nations in South America (assuming Mexico is being douchey towards them) view Mexico as "not one of us, despite the shared history.
 
Pax Hispanica ftw! :D:D:D

Hmm! I wonder how the French, Portuguese and Italians will take that. :p

(France and Italy strike me as the most natural expansion points for Spain, since they have a shared linguistic history and they are the closest for a resurgent Spanish empire to take over.)
 
Hmm! I wonder how the French, Portuguese and Italians will take that. :p

(France and Italy strike me as the most natural expansion points for Spain, since they have a shared linguistic history and they are the closest for a resurgent Spanish empire to take over.)

I disagree. Algeria and Morocco, particularly the former is the way to go. It's that first big step to empire building. :)
 
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