"Our Struggle": What If Hitler Had Been a Communist?

Oh boy its the Spanish Civil War prelude. German Boogaloo.

Where are my anarchists at?
If we’re doing that, maybe it’s the German Right whose screwed over due to inter factional bullshit. I mean let’s look at the coalition here:

  • Monarchist aristocrats who want a restoration of the Kaiserreich and the old order, with even more privleges.
  • The Facist street fighters who are more lower class and probably are not going to be fond of Increased nobility...
  • Conservatives and Catholics who are abit weary of tearing up the democracy but are just terrified at the strength of the Communist party.
This can explode in the New Governments face if not handled correctly and Von Schicieler and Kaiser Dip shit are not the men to do the job.
 
Mind you Hitler has to deal with the SPD, who will not take the end of democracy kindley. It seems to me through past reference in the story, he gets rid of them by casting them as traitors to the working class. This may be a Stalinesque fabrication or it may be based on something real...Perhaps acouple SPD reps saw the direction Hitler was taking and tried to team up with the Conservatives and Zentrum to try and create a second Republic only to be exposed and letting Hitler take a carving knife to the rest of the party
 
Last edited:
"Get up, scum." The guard piped, his encouraging tone dripping with malice. "The party's over for the Reds, as it is for all the other enemies of Germany, there's no time for you to slacken any longer.
Reichswehr recruitment focussed on the rural areas, particularly in East Prussia. So, the other ranks were just as conservative as the officer corps.
 
Quick question, how popular was the the Monarchist movement in the late days of the Weimar Republic in OTL? How many Germans wanted a return of the monarchy? Some would have seen it as a stable presence, others as they preferred a monarchy government or were former nobles who wanted a return of some of their rights and privileges. Some would have preferred it to Fascism or Communism.

I know Wilhelm II wouldn’t have returned but what about his son being crowned Wilhelm III? Or another of Wilhelm’s children if Wilhelm III died before the Empire returned, possibly Prince Oskar since he served in the war successfully and to my knowledge wasn’t actively disliked. Was Wilhelm III generally disliked? What about his eldest son, Wilhelm, who married the lowborn noblewoman and gave up his heir to the throne status. He had 50,000 people turn up to his funeral, perhaps he could have been the new Kaiser in such a scenario.

Here we have the Volkisch Bund who is working with the conservatives and the military to create a Third Reich.

I’m asking because I keep thinking of an Imperial Germany reborn. It would be authoritarian, oppressive, and expansionist but not nearly the degrees of Nazi Germany.
 
There were plenty of people who wanted some form of authoritarian, right-wing nationalist regime. But a lot less who wanted a monarchy. That's one of the reasons why Papen and Co ended up in bed with the Nazis and the 'Bohemian Corporal' in OTL, despite seeing them as 'vulgar proles'. The Nazis presented themselves as not just hyper-nationalist, but also young and 'vigorous', unlike the 'old fossiles' of the reaction.

Several of the 20 July plotters were monarchists and wanted to restore the monarchy. One of them is Goerdeler, who was supposed to become chancellor (though some conspirators, such as Stauffenberg did not want him as head of government). If you read Goerdeler's papers, you find he endorsed hereditary monarchy and he wanted the head of state to have extensive powers. Their preferred candidate was Louis Ferdinand, the second-oldest son of Crown Prince Wilhelm.

After the coup was foiled, Louis was interrogated by the Gestapo, but he survived the war. However, support for a restauration was not unanimous among the conspirators. They wanted a broad base of support from anti-Nazi (and anti-Communist) elements, which included Social Democrats such as Julius Leber, and pushing for a return to the Hohenzollerns and the Kaiser would have hindered that. As Ulrich von Hassell, himself a monarchist and a possible foreign minister, said, restoring the monarchy was something for act 2. Thus Colonel General Beck was supposed to become Reichsverweser (Reich Regent), which left the door open for an eventual restoration.

I’m asking because I keep thinking of an Imperial Germany reborn. It would be authoritarian, oppressive, and expansionist but not nearly the degrees of Nazi Germany.

The Reichstag would be a rubberstamp composed of right-wing parties or be outright replaced by a corporatist chamber like in Italy and Austria. Social Democrats and Communists would be locked up, trade unions crushed and Jews would be disenfranchised, barred from the civil service and probably pressured to emigrate (and at first you'd probably see anti-Semitic violence comparable to the initial stages of Nazi rule since you got all the right-wing paramilitaries signing up for the regime). The DNVP had people from the German Fatherland Party, itself backed by the Pan-German League (Alldeutscher Verband), among its founders and they had anti-Semitic, imperialist views, which included proto-Lebensraum ideas.

And sooner or later there'd be a 'war of revanche'. But there'd be no industrialised death camps or genocide programme, and many Nazis who rose to prominence in OTL would be nonentities. The Reichswehr/Wehrmacht is not going to tolerate something like the SA or SS competing with them. You'd probably have a conservative reactionary regime with fascist elements.
 
Last edited:
Is the DNVP a part of the Volkisch Bund or is it still it’s own political party? And if it is independent, is it in a coalition government with the VB?
 
Hi Red, I've been reading this timeline since July 2018, and I must say this is a great TL. Well written, highly detailed and an interesting look into an alternate Hitler.
There are some things I want to ask that is somewhat unrelated to the latest update. Since we have Germany presumably going communist in 1930, does this discredit Stalin's thesis of "Socialism in One Country"?. After all they have a powerful and industrialized nation, ie Germany turning communist. What is Trotsky's opinion on Red Hitler? What are Red Hitler's ideological influences?

Also, could you please add thread markers for this story? It makes it easier to find certain chapters.
 
Hi Red, I've been reading this timeline since July 2018, and I must say this is a great TL. Well written, highly detailed and an interesting look into an alternate Hitler.
There are some things I want to ask that is somewhat unrelated to the latest update. Since we have Germany presumably going communist in 1930, does this discredit Stalin's thesis of "Socialism in One Country"?. After all they have a powerful and industrialized nation, ie Germany turning communist. What is Trotsky's opinion on Red Hitler? What are Red Hitler's ideological influences?

Also, could you please add thread markers for this story? It makes it easier to find certain chapters.

I believe Germany goes Communist in 1932 and WW2 or the war that evolves into WW2 begins in 1936, soon after Germany annexes Austria. If I’m remembering correctly, Fascist Italy is the first to go to war against Communist Germany.

Well Stalin knows of Hitler, they met in the mid-20s when they effectively told him to stop the Red Front’s guerrilla actions in the Ruhr due to political reasons with Germany and France.

I would assume Stalin would want to focus on his country first as by the time Germany goes Red the USSR is still trying to catch up industrially and the like. And Stalin’s German puppet Thälmann was kicked out of the KPD. I have a feeling Germany and the USSR are allies due to shared ideology and anti-West mentality. Allies of convenience. But I could be wrong. I think The Red mentioned this before last year. That their allies but not buddy-buddy.

If Hitler is cozying up to/working with Stalin, Trotsky won’t like it, but he has little influence due to being exiled to Mexico.

The thread marker discussion has been brought up several times, once by myself. He hasn’t done it for various reasons and though I agree having threadmarks would make re-reading easier, the comments and feedback from the community really help with background lore as The Red occasionally drops tidbits or insights that really help flesh out certain stuff.
 
Hitler lost faith in himself for a little bit, and Gerda saw how human he was, but Johann still sees Hitler as the boss who could do little wrong. Might have been desperation or loyalty.

I suppose if I had to contrast Gerda and Johann it would be that the former has come round to a pragmatic support of Hitler after years of regarding him as more dangerous than effective whilst Johann has never really seen beyond the revolutionary leader in the Ruhr and is at his most disenchanted when Hitler isn't carrying a rifle. Political parties, particularly in a situation as fraught as Weimar, create odd coalitions. I might have them actually meet each other properly at some point to examine these differences a bit more.

If we’re doing that, maybe it’s the German Right whose screwed over due to inter factional bullshit. I mean let’s look at the coalition here:

  • Monarchist aristocrats who want a restoration of the Kaiserreich and the old order, with even more privleges.
  • The Facist street fighters who are more lower class and probably are not going to be fond of Increased nobility...
  • Conservatives and Catholics who are abit weary of tearing up the democracy but are just terrified at the strength of the Communist party.
This can explode in the New Governments face if not handled correctly and Von Schicieler and Kaiser Dip shit are not the men to do the job.

That's a good point. The Nazis were fanatical enough in OTL that they never made more than temporary alliances with the other elements of the far-right and the conservative establishment (even though they would work to the benefit of both) whereas the Volkisch Bund has made itself much more accomodating, but also more exposed to people like Schleicher who don't really see a need for them in the long term.


Reichswehr recruitment focussed on the rural areas, particularly in East Prussia. So, the other ranks were just as conservative as the officer corps.

I don't know if that's possible but there certainly were attempts made to make it so with selective recruitment as you say, as well as far-right indoctrination within the organisation. Paying lip service to republicanism was something of a necessity but anything beyond that would have to exist underground, if at all.


Is the DNVP a part of the Volkisch Bund or is it still it’s own political party? And if it is independent, is it in a coalition government with the VB?

The DNVP is independent of the VB, although it lost much of its vote to the party despite their own lurch to the far-right under Hugenburg. They provisionally support Schleicher's new government alongside the VB.

Hi Red, I've been reading this timeline since July 2018, and I must say this is a great TL. Well written, highly detailed and an interesting look into an alternate Hitler.

Thanks, that's really nice of you to say. :)

Since we have Germany presumably going communist in 1930, does this discredit Stalin's thesis of "Socialism in One Country"?

Germany going Communist renders it obsolete in the material sense but the Soviet Union will still want to go its own way, even if they have more options open now.

What is Trotsky's opinion on Red Hitler?

He's a Brandlerite whose assumption of power only represents the triumph of the Right Opposition, exemplified by his willingness to work with the leadership of the SPD. That said, I'm sure he would have taken a certain amount of pleasure from the failure of the Stalinism in the party, even if just for the sake of schadenfreude.

What are Red Hitler's ideological influences?

German Ideology has a few different ones but it isn't fully formed yet.

I have a feeling Germany and the USSR are allies due to shared ideology and anti-West mentality. Allies of convenience. But I could be wrong. I think The Red mentioned this before last year. That their allies but not buddy-buddy.

Yeah, although they make-up eventually there's going to be baggage there for a long time.
 
Chapter LXIX
"Hitherto, the rights and wrongs had seemed so beautifully simple."

~ George Orwell, Homage to Catalonia






The parade grounds were a mass of activity, and to the uninitiated one could suspect that the entire city had been built around the purpose of trumphialist shows of force.

Moscow tends to be cold in November, but even the regular attendees of the annual Great October Socialist Revolution Parade seemed to be feeling an extra bite to the air. Eric held his old British Battalion overcoat tightly around himself, feeling his insides protest the weather even as he looked into the clear blue sky, and the assorted leaders positioned not far below it.

Poised above the marching grounds of Red Square, Adolf Hitler didn't appear to be suffering from the cold. As the massed ranks of the Red Army marched past the Volksfuhrer resolute in his typical grey suit and red armband, as if he were oblivious to the Russian weather in the name of his mission. Next to him, Joseph Stalin exuded satisfaction in his own myopic way. This was his party and the German leader still had to give credence to that fact, even if he was placed second only to Stalin amongst those viewing endless procession of soldiers, sailors, and workers. The two most powerful men in the world, watching over their great show of strength, all the while looking like an architect and a foreman observing a building project.


Belaja armija, čjornyj baron,
Snova gotovjat nam carskij tron,
No ot tajgi do britanskih morej
Krasnaja Armija vseh siljnej!



The choir sang deeply, threatening to drown out the brass band behind it. Even as Eric yeared to be inside on the cold day he couldn't help but feel a certain rousing sensation that emanated from the parade. He was there to report on it for his column in one of the new journals for the fledging British enclave in Europe, those who their mother country had forsaken. It was important to keep one's spirits up in such a situation, and the impression the massed ranks of Soviet, German, and other Comintern forces gave seemed to indicate that the war would be over soon and with it his exile.

For a foreign contingent in what was technically another nation's celebration, the number of German troops was particularly notable. Some of the German journalists amongst him whooped as the Rote Armee marched by, their goose stepping increased the martial flare of the ceremony whilst at the same time their expressionless faces matched the bitter cold of the Moscow afternoon.

Amongst the minimalism of their sharp uniforms, Eric tried to look for signs that any of those now on parade had served in Spain. Even if he wouldn't be able to put names to any faces, a shared experience was sometimes all the warmth a person could need. Before Eric could recognise anyone, the sideways profile of their stern faces snapped towards the two men on the balcony, obscuring them as they marched past and drawing attention once more to the two great revolutionary leaders. Eric pulled his coat closer and began to take notes.




SPOILER_rotefuhrer.png


Left to right: Maxim Litvinov, Joseph Stalin, Adolf Hitler, Gerda Muller



Jessica winced slightly in seeing the forced way that her lover sat down. The way he exhaled with relief as he rested on the bench, with a feint wheeze in his breath, caused her to feel an awkward albeit less physical pain. She didn't mind being infactuated with an older man, but Eric's increasing physical frailty at an age where he should have been in his prime wasn't an aspect she liked to be reminded of too often.

Where will be in ten years? Will I still be with him to see him deteriorate? These questions stabbed at her mentally every time Eric's physical pain revealed, even if his smile could win her back as lifted his manuscript aloft.

"It's a good piece of work this one Jess, if I don't say so myself."

Jessica could only roll her eyes. Eric's writing had become more concise ever since she had half jokingly complained that his account of the October Revolution celebrations in Moscow was a novella longer than the journal that he was writing it for. His need to rely on what the Germans informed them of had undoubtedly helped as well.

"Please say you've cut out some of the rambling this time. We're meant to be alerting people to the truth about what's going on out there, not reading them a bedtime story."

Eric feigned dismay but laughed off her complaints quickly.

"You'd manage to make my shopping list sound interesting Jess, I'm sure the worker's don't mind."

The pair had become something of a media Kombinat ever since their meeting in Valencia several years prior. Jess was volunteering in the hospital where her husband had breathed his last. Esmond's I-16 had crash landed in the aerial battles over the provisional capital, and she felt keen to do her bit to repay those doctors and nurses who had tried to make his last days peaceful. Then Eric had arrived from the frontline, not much more alive than Esmond had been, she had done the best she could to make sure he would get through, pressuring the commissars to bring him and his fellow wounded International Brigadiers more than promises of victory in battles they weren't able to take part in. In the menatime Eric had began writing his own pieces of the battles he had taken part in, and she had read them aloud to spare him his recovering throat injury.

She had read first to his bunkmates, then to the ward, and eventually over a loudspeaker positioned outside the hospital. This led to Eric's writings being broadcast over the Republican radio stations. She had scoffed at the notion of being some sort of English Dolores Ibarruri but when Eric's condition worsened she had accepted the German offer to take the pair to Berlin where there state of the art medical facilities were matched only by the German Workers Republic's broadcasting abilties.

Eric recovered but it was decided that he didn't have the voice for radio after all, "unattraktiv" as Herr Goebbels had apparently opined. Jessica liked Eric's voice but she didn't put up too much protest whenever her lover dwelled on his own lack of talent for public speaking. She found Goebbels to be distasteful in person but he often knew what he was doing and Eric's talents lay elsewhere. The two worked together on their Voice of Wigan programme that broadcast from Radio Free Britain every day, the title more a nod to Eric's previous writings than her distinctly un-Wigan accent. She couldn't help being born a Mitford of course, but Eric was a minor celebrity in his own right, and with her husband dead and his wife beyond the Channel, there weren't many others left for either of them to take solace in.

"I'm sure it's better than a shopping list, or longer at any rate." Eric laughed at her scorn, causing him to wheeze slightly.

"It's not all that long Jess, trust me. Quick enough for you practice before we broadcast.", he remarked with a wink. They weren't scheduled to begin for another five hours. With a sigh she began to read the script aloud. The script in her hands, Eric leaned in to focus on her. Knowing that his humble, slightly sad, eyes were hanging on her every word, she began to rehearse once again.


"Germany calling..."


---


This original work of art was made by the artist RAJ, please check out their work here.
 
"Germany calling..."
George Orwell as a Lord Haw Haw expy...I love it. (my bad, Jessica Mitford, still awesome)

One thing which also caught my attention is the references to the Spanish Civil War. I'm guessing that turned out for the Republicans ITTL or at least a lot more drawn out as the Nationalists don't have the Army of Africa to back them up. That could be very interesting, especially if it reaches into World War Two, which could turn it into "Peninsula War electric boogaloo Now with Anarchists". On the other hand, if the Republicans win early and the Communists or some other Group sympathetic to Germany comes out on top in the post war power struggle, they may jump in on there side and make the War a whole lot more difficult from the Allied Side
 
Last edited:
A world where Orwell is as reviled as OTL Haw Haw? Truly this is Darkest Timeline.

A dark reminder here of the way this world would develop: even a solidly OTL-esque Spanish Civil War would be regarded with retrospect as the precursor to the Second World War. The Republicans, being socialists and backed by the USSR for that reason, are therefore Evil Enemy (according to the perspective of the West) which puts Franco and the Fascists as Our Good Guys. And if that's so, people all over the West will be publicly agreeing that if left-wingers win an election the correct response is to abandon democracy and overthrow the elected government - not only in a Cold War context, as in OTL, but with the powerful memory of all the blood and sacrifice of the War to back them up.

I really hope that, if the West wins this alternate Second World War, it isn't regarded as morally absolute triumph of good over evil with the same unimpeachable force as OTL's. Otherwise, this world may be heading to a nasty place.
 
Belaja armija, čjornyj baron,
Snova gotovjat nam carskij tron,
No ot tajgi do britanskih morej
Krasnaja Armija vseh siljnej!
Wait a minute. I recognize this song. The Red Army is the Strongest.
 
Clean-shave Hitler looks fresh as hell, goddamn. I wonder if the Germans and Soviets will actually keep the black/brown distinction.

I suppose this chapter is set after the conquest of France, can't imagine any other reason why the reigning Volksfuhrer would feel comfortable leaving a country that only recently came out of a civil war and is currently engaged in a war of conquest... and taking some soldiers with him to parade around Moscow.
 
I really hope that, if the West wins this alternate Second World War, it isn't regarded as morally absolute triumph of good over evil with the same unimpeachable force as OTL's. Otherwise, this world may be heading to a nasty place.
I agree with you if we talk about the cold war (which ITTL will be more brutal if the Germans and Communist bloc succeed in conquering Europe and the public will be alright with us Couping people like Allende rather openly), However if were talking straghit up World War Two, I disagree. Communism is an absolutely evil ideology which often relies on destroying the old roots of society, and its already hinted at in some lines that Hitler is already planning some very nasty shit once he wins. Sure, Mussolini is rather distasteful as an ally but so was Stalin and the Soviet Union. In the context of a World War ITTL, Id perfer to see the Allies triumphant and get into a cold war with Mussolini and his group of fascists.
 
Top