That Wacky Redhead

[JSmith]

JSmith

I can't see it ever being done, except as a Hollywood mess possibly but a film of Lord of Light! That would be exquisite. However while the book is nowhere near as long as LoR I think it would still be bloody difficult, if not impossible to get the real details and plot into a move. Possibly a trilogy.

Steve

I'm more interested in seeing Science Fiction Land be built but if the movie comes along for the ride by all means

 

[Glen]

Actually, the Peladon stories might not have aired at all. It seems that The Curse of Peladon was written as an allegory of Britain's entry into the Common Market. Since ITTL, Britain stays out of the Common Market, this story and its sequel would not be written.

The Monster of Peladon was also influenced by the 1973 Miners Strike, which might also be butterflied (or at least delayed) by having Labour in power instead of the Conservatives

Cheers,
Nigel.

There would probably still be Peladon stories just with a different subtext.

 

[Shevek23]

JSmith

I can't see it ever being done, except as a Hollywood mess possibly but a film of Lord of Light! That would be exquisite. However while the book is nowhere near as long as LoR I think it would still be bloody difficult, if not impossible to get the real details and plot into a move. Possibly a trilogy.

Steve

A trilogy would be nice for getting in nuance and detail and stuff, but hardly necessary I think. The basic story of Zelazny's novel can be told in one 90 minute film.

And I'd hope it might hew much closer to what Zelazny wrote than this Geller's reworking of it. If you're going to treat technology, alien or human, as magic, you might as well just stick with magic! Zelazny had it down to human psychic powers, I forget what it was about the planet they went to that amplified those; maybe it had to do with their being native energy beings there. But that's what it was, not alien tech--psionic stuff, which is of course just science-fictionese for "magic."

The only tech I remember, except for technology that clearly had analogs already in 1960s everyday life (Indra's supersonic jet "thunder chariot," other tools the "gods" used) of great note was the resurrection technology. Which by the way also had something to do with why there were paragons of psychic power around; they had many lifetimes to strengthen their gifts.

It doesn't look to me like Geller's script would have kept the "Indian" aspects of Lord of Light and that atmosphere and context pretty much made the novel IMHO.

So getting back to the Redhead timeline, maybe a good and faithful adaptation of Lord of Light might lead to a cinematic version of Creatures of Light and Darkness, Doorways in the Sand, or the Amber stories?

 

[Dan1988]

Well well well, managed to get through all 119 pages! [] Largely courtesy of Brainbin and a few others mentioning this during the Harry Potter side-project thread - which got me interested, even though I wasn't around for most of the TV shows as they aired (growing up in the 1990s in the shadow of PBS [courtesy of 3 PBS member stations, two of which were owned by the same foundation] and cable TV). I have heard stories from my parents about TV when they grew up - including Dad, who grew up during the 1950s and 1960s and would tell me stories about how TV was like back in the day (including his rendition of the theme song to the Adventures of Pow Wow). Needless to say, the stories were pretty interesting to me, which is what probably drew my interest here.

So yeah, I read through all the posts. Including the comments. And yes, I definitely learned something, for sure. So in essence, thanks Brainbin for creating an excellent TL.

Now, I don't know if WGBH-TV was beamed via the ANIK satellites to Canadians, but I figured I might as well share this gem with you. WGBH-TV, for those not familiar with TV in New England, is Boston's PBS member station - in fact, one of the more dominant ones, seeing as how it produces much of the PBS schedule. (The two stations I referred to earlier are owned by these people - WGBH-TV, ch2; and WGBX-TV, ch44.) I used to watch it a lot in my younger years, alongside some other programming, including occasionally whatever my parents watched. (I still do watch it on occasion.) That means that I also was exposed to some unique quirks to our local news - for example, whist everyone else in the US was focused on Gulf War 1, here in Rhode Island THE story was our historic banking crisis when the state deposit insurance corporation went bust, throwing Rhode Islanders into massive panic not seen since the Depression. So WGBH-TV (or Channel 2, as everyone else calls it) was a well-needed station. Anyway, WGBH-TV for the longest time possible (and which fits here, seeing as much of this TL is set in the 1970s and 1980s) had a very unique sign-on scheme (for sign-off, it was in reverse), which was discontinued in 1988 for a different one that I was more familiar with. The clip I linked to here is a late incarnation of it, from 1986 (fittingly, the last year of the TL). The main portion of it - which is memorable to many New Englanders who grew up in the 1970s and 1980s - starts at 0:50, and which I think is a masterpiece in its own right. (Question to Americans who grew up during that period - how many programs from PBS can you correctly guess in that clip?) You can date it to the 1980s, as beforehand both Channel 2 and Channel 44 had separate sign-on and sign-off sequences unique to each channel. In the 1980s, it was replaced by the pan of the Boston skyline from the Charles River, where the then-newly complete Federal Reserve Bank of Boston building is in full view.

Having said all that, all I can say about this clip is - enjoy. It's one of my favourites, despite having not grown up with it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2RKFZKxTwjE

 

[NCW8]

There would probably still be Peladon stories just with a different subtext.

Well maybe, but I would have thought that by Season 9, butterflies would be making some differences on which Doctor Who stories are written. Since the OTL inspiration is missing, The Curse of Peladon is a prime candidate for that.

That is even more the case for The Monster of Peladon. Without the need to portray Sarah Jane as a feminist, there wouldn't be a requirement to set up the Queen of Peladon as needing a feminist lecture.

Cheers,
Nigel.

 

[Brainbin]

I begin this latest round of responses with a very special announcement! That Wacky Redhead has been nominated for multiple Turtledove Awards this year, and if you enjoy this timeline, I would very much appreciate your vote in those categories. First and foremost, That Wacky Redhead is a contender for Continuing Cold War Era timeline, though it is facing some extremely venerable competition in that field. In addition, vultan was good enough to nominate the POD in the new category of Best Point of Departure, which is therefore against all of the best PODs in the history of these boards. Thank you to everyone for your support, past, present, and future!

You'd be surprised: tears in space, undiscovered wormholes, warp bubbles around escape pods...& that's just off the top of my head.

I have no doubt that the comics would probably resort to one of these eventually.

Actually, the Peladon stories might not have aired at all. It seems that The Curse of Peladon was written as an allegory of Britain's entry into the Common Market. Since ITTL, Britain stays out of the Common Market, this story and its sequel would not be written.

The Monster of Peladon was also influenced by the 1973 Miners Strike, which might also be butterflied (or at least delayed) by having Labour in power instead of the Conservatives

Well then! Problem solved

Ah, CED, the most obscure video format ever, it makes Laserdisc look positively mainstream by comparison.

Given Britain's track record for such things, you'd think it would have endured much longer over there - or is that just video game systems?

The TOS-R DVDs logically enough use gold, red and blue for each season to fit the different division colours, but there are more than three seasons in your TL so that doesn't work.

As did, of course, the original DVDs, which also came in delightful clam-shell packaging.

Brainbin-I love your timeline. I noticed of course you have a major change in Colorado by having the 1976 Olympics take place here as planned. I have another suggestion that is related to the movie Argo and would seem to fit in your timeline where science fiction has more cultural currency.

Glad you're still reading, JSmith! Science Fiction Land is an excellent suggestion, and I'll be sure to take it into consideration.

And might I add: you presented your research in a very thorough and engaging fashion, very much in the style of some of our finest timelines!

So getting back to the Redhead timeline, maybe a good and faithful adaptation of Lord of Light might lead to a cinematic version of Creatures of Light and Darkness, Doorways in the Sand, or the Amber stories?

And I shall have to investigate these as well. Though I remind you that she is not just any redhead - she's That Wacky Redhead!

Well well well, managed to get through all 119 pages! [] Largely courtesy of Brainbin and a few others mentioning this during the Harry Potter side-project thread - which got me interested, even though I wasn't around for most of the TV shows as they aired (growing up in the 1990s in the shadow of PBS [courtesy of 3 PBS member stations, two of which were owned by the same foundation] and cable TV). I have heard stories from my parents about TV when they grew up - including Dad, who grew up during the 1950s and 1960s and would tell me stories about how TV was like back in the day (including his rendition of the theme song to the Adventures of Pow Wow). Needless to say, the stories were pretty interesting to me, which is what probably drew my interest here.

So yeah, I read through all the posts. Including the comments. And yes, I definitely learned something, for sure. So in essence, thanks Brainbin for creating an excellent TL.

Welcome aboard, Dan! And thank you for your lovely compliments

Having said all that, all I can say about this clip is - enjoy. It's one of my favourites, despite having not grown up with it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2RKFZKxTwjE

Southern Ontario - including Toronto - is "served" by WNED Buffalo, and Canadian viewers provide the majority of pledge donations to the station - which, to the credit of those who run the station, has informed their programming choices. It identifies on air as "Buffalo/Toronto" (and, at least in the 1990s, as "Western New York and Southern Ontario").

WGBH Boston obviously deserves credit for being responsible for - among many other things - The French Chef... and Where in the World is Carmen Sandiego?

 

[Dan1988]

I begin this latest round of responses with a very special announcement! That Wacky Redhead has been nominated for multiple Turtledove Awards this year, and if you enjoy this timeline, I would very much appreciate your vote in those categories. First and foremost, That Wacky Redhead is a contender for Continuing Cold War Era timeline, though it is facing some extremely venerable competition in that field. In addition, vultan was good enough to nominate the POD in the new category of Best Point of Departure, which is therefore against all of the best PODs in the history of these boards. Thank you to everyone for your support, past, present, and future!

Might as well echo this. Congrats on your nomination - it's well deserved!

Welcome aboard, Dan! And thank you for your lovely compliments

Thank you on the first count, and you're welcome on the second. Always a pleasure, particularly as the media - and radio and television in particular - is a soft spot for me. It's rare that you get a broadcasting-related TL 'round these parts, let alone a pop culture one. And on both those counts, you've done an excellent job. That's something that's worth a Turtledove, for sure.

Southern Ontario - including Toronto - is "served" by WNED Buffalo, and Canadian viewers provide the majority of pledge donations to the station - which, to the credit of those who run the station, has informed their programming choices. It identifies on air as "Buffalo/Toronto" (and, at least in the 1990s, as "Western New York and Southern Ontario").

Sounds cool. I know that WGBH often does shout-outs to Canadian viewers now during pledge drives because it's been rebroadcast on some satellite TV services now. I do find it interesting where you have PBS stations wholely reliant on revenue from Canadian viewers - that certainly says a lot. I wonder how much revenue to WGBH Canadian viewers make up.

WGBH Boston obviously deserves credit for being responsible for - among many other things - The French Chef... and Where in the World is Carmen Sandiego?

Oh, definitely - and I say that as someone who used to be a fan of, in addition to Where in the World is Carmen Sandiego?, a good portion of PBS children's programming from the 1990s - including Ghostwriter. (Now there was a great programme right there.)

 

[Glen]

Did a little further reading on the genesis of Curse of Peladon, and notwithstanding the question of the allegory, it does not seem to me to be likely that this setting would develop in most timelines as it was essentially a kludge of a bunch of ideas. We would likely see very different development - there will be something with Ice Warriors again during the Third Doctor's period, but it won't be Peladon.

 

[NCW8]

Did a little further reading on the genesis of Curse of Peladon, and notwithstanding the question of the allegory, it does not seem to me to be likely that this setting would develop in most timelines as it was essentially a kludge of a bunch of ideas. We would likely see very different development - there will be something with Ice Warriors again during the Third Doctor's period, but it won't be Peladon.

Interesting. One of the things that I liked about the Curse of Peladon was the treatment of the Ice Warriors. Since they had been the bad guys in their previous two appearances, it was a good twist that in Peladon they were among the good guys, although that wasn't obvious until the final episode. Hopefully that idea will be used in another story ITTL.

The next episode in season nine was The Sea Devils. Hopefully this story will be more or less as in OTL - it is the story where the Doctor actually says "I reversed the polarity of the neutron flux". Sadly, the scene with the Master and the Clangers might not appear ITTL. It was a last minute addition as the episode was 90 seconds too short. A scene involving the Doctor water ski-ing couldn't be filmed because of bad weather.

Cheers,
Nigel.

 

[e of pi]

Since reading the Trek miniseries post, I've been regressing a bit to my Trek fanboy days and digging around for suitable designs for the Excelsior and the Artemis.

For the Artemis, I viewed it as a lighter unit, a backup for the longer-legged Starship-class cruisers like the Enterprise. This fits Sulu as a less-experienced commander and, as I'm sure he'd put it, "I've always been a fan of speed." So we want compact, and agile. I think a TOS-ized Miranda like this concept works very well. I'd like to imagine a slightly "sleeker" deflector pod, with less fiddly detail, but that's just me.

Then, for this TL's Excelsior, we want something that's a Cruiser, like the Starship-class, but newer. I drew upon some of Matt Jefferies own designs, and found this:

There's this fan interpretation, which the designer calls the Declaration-class, and which I think should work well as the Excelsior--it has lineage with the "new" Artemis design, with the underslung nacelles and overhead engineering hull, but is larger and more on the scale of the Starship-class it'll replace. Still, it's not quite "right," which means it'll feel good when Kirk takes back the Enterprise:

I'd maybe say make the upper hull elliptical, so it's a bit narrower in the side view, and then a bit longer, but...dunno. Also, I'd rescale windows and stuff so this is clearly the same size as Enterprise, if not even a tiny bit bigger (as befits the next class).

Also, I'd hope that Sulu and Kyle get some kind of proper sendoff? Personally, I like the idea of Sulu having to take the helm himself, so the manuevers Artemis pulls putting herself in the line of fire to protect Enterprise and put the Romulan attacker on the defensive are Sulu's personal swan song, and he dies at the helm of a ship.

 

[Glen]

Interesting. One of the things that I liked about the Curse of Peladon was the treatment of the Ice Warriors. Since they had been the bad guys in their previous two appearances, it was a good twist that in Peladon they were among the good guys, although that wasn't obvious until the final episode. Hopefully that idea will be used in another story ITTL.

It is likely that an episode featuring the Ice Warriors in a role reversal would happen in season 9 though it won't be Peladon.

The next episode in season nine was The Sea Devils. Hopefully this story will be more or less as in OTL - it is the story where the Doctor actually says "I reversed the polarity of the neutron flux". Sadly, the scene with the Master and the Clangers might not appear ITTL. It was a last minute addition as the episode was 90 seconds too short. A scene involving the Doctor water ski-ing couldn't be filmed because of bad weather.

Cheers,
Nigel.

Something like the Sea Devils (originally titled Sea Silurians) would happen in season 9.

 

[Thande]

Given Britain's track record for such things, you'd think it would have endured much longer over there - or is that just video game systems?

I think they just weren't marketed here, whereas Laserdisc was and I vaguely remember it. I will say I'm the only person who seems to remember the VCD, which Flocc tells me was big in Asia but never caught on here despite a marketing blitz.

(I'm not getting your video game system reference, what endured longer here than in the states?)

For the Artemis, I viewed it as a lighter unit, a backup for the longer-legged Starship-class cruisers like the Enterprise. This fits Sulu as a less-experienced commander and, as I'm sure he'd put it, "I've always been a fan of speed." So we want compact, and agile. I think a TOS-ized Miranda like this concept works very well. I'd like to imagine a slightly "sleeker" deflector pod, with less fiddly detail, but that's just me.

Wow, that's the best "TOS Miranda" I've ever seen, and I've seen a lot of attempts.

Fun fact: because the term Miranda class is never shown on screen in Star Trek II or later on and supplementary material didn't come out into years later, there were fanwank publications from the 80s that decided to call it the "Avenger-class frigate".

There's this fan interpretation, which the designer calls the Declaration-class, and which I think should work well as the Excelsior--it has lineage with the "new" Artemis design, with the underslung nacelles and overhead engineering hull, but is larger and more on the scale of the Starship-class it'll replace. Still, it's not quite "right," which means it'll feel good when Kirk takes back the Enterprise:

That's a good interpretation of that sketch--and recall that those same preliminary sketches are the same ones that gave birth to the Daedalus class and the S. S. Enterprise which did enter canon.

 

[e of pi]

Wow, that's the best "TOS Miranda" I've ever seen, and I've seen a lot of attempts.

I've seen a fair number, too, and I definitely agree. If the deflector area was a bit cleaner, it'd be perfect.

That's a good interpretation of that sketch--and recall that those same preliminary sketches are the same ones that gave birth to the Daedalus class and the S. S. Enterprise which did enter canon.

They shortened up the engineering hull a lot, which is part of why I think their interpretation looks awkward. I think with a bit closer adherence to the original sketch, it'd make a good Excelsior for the TWR Star Trek.

 

[Asharella]

I think they just weren't marketed here, whereas Laserdisc was and I vaguely remember it. I will say I'm the only person who seems to remember the VCD, which Flocc tells me was big in Asia but never caught on here despite a marketing blitz.

I owned a Video Disc system. I still have a bunch of video discs somewhere too, including "The Last Unicorn" and "the Court Jester." My kids wore out "The Last Unicorn."

I remember that laser disc systems were extremely expensive compared to video disc.

I then remember switching over to renting for a weekend a VCR at the video store because we couldn't get discs anymore. We didn't bother buying our own VCR until the 90s.

I remember going out for pizza for dinner with my kids right in the middle of an episode of Batman: The Animated Series and setting it up to tape the rest and forgetting about it. That tape from then on had hours of old repeated schlock after the fifteen minutes of B:TAS.

 

[Thande]

I find nowadays half the fun in watching your old VHS tapes is seeing the contemporary adverts and news broadcasts in between programmes taped by accident. They show you how much the world has changed, whether it be adverts for 90s video games or news broadcasts saying "the US has started arming the mujahideen in Afghanistan which will totally not backfire" or "Robert Mugabe, who is basically the same as Nelson Mandela..."

 

[NCW8]

It is likely that an episode featuring the Ice Warriors in a role reversal would happen in season 9 though it won't be Peladon.

The Peladon stories were the last time that the Ice Warriors appeared. But you're right, they're likely to make one or two more appearances ITTL.

Something like the Sea Devils (originally titled Sea Silurians) would happen in season 9.

Quite, but likely with the Doctor water ski-ing instead of the Master watching the Clangers. In my opinion, that's a net loss.

Another season 9 story that could be different ITTL is Day of the Daleks. The original version of the story didn't include the daleks at all - working titles included The Ghost Hunters and The Time Warriors. The daleks are going to make a return to Dr Who eventually - there's enough public demand for that - but that's not necessarily going to be in season 9.

Terry Nation wanted to create a daleks-based spin off series with an eye on the US market, so the BBC agreed that The Evil of the Daleks in season 4 would be their last appearance on Dr Who. IOTL, by 1972 it was obvious that the spin-off wasn't going to be made, so the daleks were re-introduced. However ITTL there is the Trek/Who crossover and the earlier popularity of Dr Who in the US. That's going to give a boost to Nation's hopes for a spin-off, even though the spin-off series still won't get made. I'd guess that this could delay the re-appearance of the daleks until season 10.

Edit: Another possibility is that the Beeb will want to introduce Dr Who's most iconic villain to American audiences as soon as possible, in which case the daleks will make their come-back in season 8 ITTL.

Cheers,
Nigel.

 

[Glen]

The Peladon stories were the last time that the Ice Warriors appeared. But you're right, they're likely to make one or two more appearances ITTL.

Yes. The showrunners are likely to use Brian Hayles as a script writer again. Peladon was a joint kludge with a different political inspiration so will not show again (don't know where the name of the planet came from so that's still a possible place name). They definitely wanted to use the Ice Warriors again, and I think it plausible that a change in perspective on the relation of the Ice Warriors to the Doctor is still something they might play with, though in a completely different story (or two).

Quite, but likely with the Doctor water ski-ing instead of the Master watching the Clangers. In my opinion, that's a net loss.

Well, yes, the details will be different, but the idea of a shore-based episode using the resources of the Royal Navy and highlighting Jon Pertwee's love of gadgetry and activity is likely. I think we see a faintly recognizable Sea Devils (or Sea Silurians) episode ITTL. BTW, who is doing creature design for Who in this season?

Another season 9 story that could be different ITTL is Day of the Daleks. The original version of the story didn't include the daleks at all - working titles included The Ghost Hunters and The Time Warriors. The daleks are going to make a return to Dr Who eventually - there's enough public demand for that - but that's not necessarily going to be in season 9.

The original idea was to set it in London - that may happen TTL.

Terry Nation wanted to create a daleks-based spin off series with an eye on the US market, so the BBC agreed that The Evil of the Daleks in season 4 would be their last appearance on Dr Who. IOTL, by 1972 it was obvious that the spin-off wasn't going to be made, so the daleks were re-introduced. However ITTL there is the Trek/Who crossover and the earlier popularity of Dr Who in the US. That's going to give a boost to Nation's hopes for a spin-off, even though the spin-off series still won't get made. I'd guess that this could delay the re-appearance of the daleks until season 10.

Edit: Another possibility is that the Beeb will want to introduce Dr Who's most iconic villain to American audiences as soon as possible, in which case the daleks will make their come-back in season 8 ITTL.

Cheers,
Nigel.

I have been thinking about this. I think season 8 will still adhere pretty closely to OTL, with season 9 much more divergent. On pondering the idea of Nation not letting the Daleks be used in Who to get an American deal, the idea has always been a bit odd to me - not have a character(s) make special appearances on the parent show in order to land a spin-off? Very odd that. And I think with the closer involvement of Desilu in Who, someone is liable to point out that they want the Daleks to make occasional appearances in the main franchise, and if popular in the US airing that would be the impetus to greenlight a spin-off series. On the other hand, I can also see execs telling Nation, "Hey, these guys work great as heavies, but you can't build a whole series around the bad guys. Let's keep them in Who. But hey, what other ideas for US series do you have?" Might lessen the blow by letting him pitch some other ideas, maybe fronting a backdoor pilot tv movie or some such that is not Daleks. I can see either, but I don't see banishing daleks from Who as striking anyone in the US as a smart idea, especially if the reason is for a US spin-off series.

 

[NCW8]

I have been thinking about this. I think season 8 will still adhere pretty closely to OTL, with season 9 much more divergent. On pondering the idea of Nation not letting the Daleks be used in Who to get an American deal, the idea has always been a bit odd to me - not have a character(s) make special appearances on the parent show in order to land a spin-off? Very odd that.

True, but that's what happened OTL. Just look at the dalek appearances. They were in 6 stories in the first four seasons, then none at all for the next four (while Nation was trying to sell his spin off series). When the spin off idea was dead, they returned for four mor stories - one per season in seasons 9-12. By that time it seems that the Who writers were becoming fed up with the daleks. The season 9 story was called Death to the Daleks, which apparently reflected the writer's feelings about them. After season 12 the daleks only appeared four more times in the remaining 14 seasons of classic Who.

On the other hand, I can also see execs telling Nation, "Hey, these guys work great as heavies, but you can't build a whole series around the bad guys.

You're probably right, that would be the reaction of the American execs. Nation was probably influenced by the amazing popularity that the daleks had in the UK. If you look at the Dr Who merchandising available in 1964, the daleks feature prominently. This is in spite of the fact that at that time they had only featured in one story and they had been killed off at the end so there was no guarantee they would return.

Cheers,
Nigel.

 

[Brainbin]

Thank you on the first count, and you're welcome on the second. Always a pleasure, particularly as the media - and radio and television in particular - is a soft spot for me. It's rare that you get a broadcasting-related TL 'round these parts, let alone a pop culture one. And on both those counts, you've done an excellent job. That's something that's worth a Turtledove, for sure.

Well, I'm very flattered that you think so - and I appreciate all the votes that have been coming my way in that very tough category.

I do find it interesting where you have PBS stations wholely reliant on revenue from Canadian viewers - that certainly says a lot. I wonder how much revenue to WGBH Canadian viewers make up.

I couldn't tell you, but what's interesting is that WNED Buffalo is largely in competition with our homegrown, publicly-owned TVO (TV Ontario) for pledge donations.

Oh, definitely - and I say that as someone who used to be a fan of, in addition to Where in the World is Carmen Sandiego?, a good portion of PBS children's programming from the 1990s - including Ghostwriter. (Now there was a great programme right there.)

I miss Ghostwriter. Broke my heart when that show ended. I was a huge fan.

For the Artemis, I viewed it as a lighter unit, a backup for the longer-legged Starship-class cruisers like the Enterprise. This fits Sulu as a less-experienced commander and, as I'm sure he'd put it, "I've always been a fan of speed." So we want compact, and agile. I think a TOS-ized Miranda like this concept works very well. I'd like to imagine a slightly "sleeker" deflector pod, with less fiddly detail, but that's just me.

That model is gorgeous, just gorgeous. I agree, the only real flaw is the slightly jury-rigged look to the deflector pod (which you don't notice as much from the forward view). Sulu, being an ace helmsman, would probably really appreciate the maneuverability and agility of a more compact vessel, as opposed to the pure speed.

Then, for this TL's Excelsior, we want something that's a Cruiser, like the Starship-class, but newer. I drew upon some of Matt Jefferies own designs, and found this:

Well, I certainly can't argue with a Matt Jefferies design, now can I?

There's this fan interpretation, which the designer calls the Declaration-class, and which I think should work well as the Excelsior--it has lineage with the "new" Artemis design, with the underslung nacelles and overhead engineering hull, but is larger and more on the scale of the Starship-class it'll replace. Still, it's not quite "right," which means it'll feel good when Kirk takes back the Enterprise:

One commonality to these proposed designs for the Excelsior and the Artemis is, as you mention, that both are distinct from the Enterprise in the exact same way. The Enterprise looks more bird-like and majestic, her "wings" constantly outstretched, whereas the other two, having flat nacelles fixed underneath their saucers, look less graceful.

I'd maybe say make the upper hull elliptical, so it's a bit narrower in the side view, and then a bit longer, but...dunno. Also, I'd rescale windows and stuff so this is clearly the same size as Enterprise, if not even a tiny bit bigger (as befits the next class).

The engineering hull does need to be made longer (as it was in the Jefferies sketches; it's quite clear that the foreshortening of the engineering hull happened as the designs became more sophisticated), while still clearly being fatter than the nacelles from all angles. Lengthening the engineering hull will also make it easier to increase the scale of the ship while making its proportions more consistent with those of the Enterprise (which also has a longer engineering hull, relatively speaking).

Also, I'd hope that Sulu and Kyle get some kind of proper sendoff? Personally, I like the idea of Sulu having to take the helm himself, so the manuevers Artemis pulls putting herself in the line of fire to protect Enterprise and put the Romulan attacker on the defensive are Sulu's personal swan song, and he dies at the helm of a ship.

That's a great idea - and building on that, I envision a scene where Sulu (still a very wet-behind-the-ears Captain, this being his first command, which he's probably only held for about a year) has the helm, and his steadfast first officer, Commander Kyle, praises his courage and valour. Something like this, to close their final scene:

KYLE: "I must say, it's been an honour serving with you, Captain."

SULU: "Thank you, Mr. Kyle. You're dismissed."

(And then we cut to EXT: on Artemis, just in time to see her doom...)

(I'm not getting your video game system reference, what endured longer here than in the states?)

Why, the Sega Master System, of course!

Wow, that's the best "TOS Miranda" I've ever seen, and I've seen a lot of attempts.

I haven't, but I agree. It's a fantastic model.

I owned a Video Disc system. I still have a bunch of video discs somewhere too, including "The Last Unicorn" and "the Court Jester." My kids wore out "The Last Unicorn."

I remember that laser disc systems were extremely expensive compared to video disc.

Laserdiscs were also extremely expensive compared to the CED. Perhaps in some other timeline, the VCD could emerge victorious, but being a product of the 1990s it's beyond the scope of this one. As far as I'm concerned, everything is very much a matter of timing, as it was (to a certain extent) IOTL.

I find nowadays half the fun in watching your old VHS tapes is seeing the contemporary adverts and news broadcasts in between programmes taped by accident. They show you how much the world has changed, whether it be adverts for 90s video games or news broadcasts saying "the US has started arming the mujahideen in Afghanistan which will totally not backfire" or "Robert Mugabe, who is basically the same as Nelson Mandela..."

I find old commercials the most entertaining, personally. Oh, the old fads those toy companies tried to cash in on...

 

[e of pi]

That model is gorgeous, just gorgeous. I agree, the only real flaw is the slightly jury-rigged look to the deflector pod (which you don't notice as much from the forward view). Sulu, being an ace helmsman, would probably really appreciate the maneuverability and agility of a more compact vessel, as opposed to the pure speed.

It's really all I could think of for a "small" design--the only alternative would be one of the single-nacelle "destroyer" designs that are so common in the fandom, but I think even the best of those look a bit awkward.

The engineering hull does need to be made longer (as it was in the Jefferies sketches; it's quite clear that the foreshortening of the engineering hull happened as the designs became more sophisticated), while still clearly being fatter than the nacelles from all angles. Lengthening the engineering hull will also make it easier to increase the scale of the ship while making its proportions more consistent with those of the Enterprise (which also has a longer engineering hull, relatively speaking).

Tried to do some edits on that design to bring its engineering hull length more into line with the Enterprise's. I think it looks a lot less "stubby" with it stretched like this. (For the record, 1911 is Lucille Ball's birth year.)