Map Thread VII

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I like the Boston. Nice use of OTL "for-want-of-a" nails.
:) Thanks.
Great map Gryphon. I remember your first map because Kamloops (my hometown) was the capital of something:p. I'd be interested in knowing exactly how the country came to be.

The only problem is the area called Salish is far to the north of the Salish people's homeland. The area that you have marked as Salish is inhabited mostly by the Tsimshians and Haislas, both not related to the Salish (or each other, for that matter).
As for the latter: fixed, with a Russian transliteration, to boot. As for the former: all we need is to give someone debating for John McLoughlin (who, for those not studying PacNW history, is sort of our Teddy Roosevelt-esque Awesome Historical Figure) a cup of tea or something in 1842, and it's practically happening.

An independent Oregon is one of the few things that's actually plausible in timelines around this time- everyone makes so much to-do about California, Vermont, and Texas being independent nations, but hey, Oregon printed its own money and ran things pretty well for about seven years.
Even in Alternate Timelines Everett's destiny as county capital is not denied. :D
Everett: the Kazakhstan Border of the Northwest. :p
Definitely liked it...............you gonna do a map of the rest of N. America someday?{Also, where's the base map for this?}
Perhaps, perhaps.

The sadly-deceased OMC formed the basemap, and unfortunately, I don't have a good copy at hand, but as soon as I find one, I shall post it in the Blank Map Thread.



So pretty... :cool: I particularly like the borders (both on the map itself and on the overall picture).
Alternate Australia, from a TL I started but never finished.
:cool: This map looks beautiful.
I've been doing some revisions and transfers (to the GCS Basemap) from one of my TL projects; America CE (working name) and thought I'd post the modern day maps since I have'nt posted a map in awhile.
And this map looks really good, in a 'Clarity over Complexity' sort of way- I like it.
 
But United States of what? or just united states now? Oh is this from a sereies because i sware i saw something very similar but it seems to be after a war and the US gets mexico

America. The heart of the empire is still the OTL US, so they wouldn't change it.

As for a series, yes. My friend posted up a 1955 world map. The only reason Mexico isn't on here is because the girl got in the way. :p
 
Map Two: Post Partition of Palestine/Israel.


following several skirmishes between the newly founded Arab Republic of Palestine & Israel it seemed the Israelis secured more territory as opposed to their neighbours who despite securing more land in the north have lost much more in the south.

(here is a link to map one: https://www.alternatehistory.com/discussion/showpost.php?p=3804091&postcount=760)

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Here’s something I thought of while reading about the history of New England, paying homage (read: ripping off) B Munro’s distinctive style.

Basically, the Popham Colony survives, causing New England to be settled by different folks ITTL. Later on, Popham colony unites with Virginia, creating the United Commonwealths of Virginia in the late 1780s. They then rebel against the British in the mid 1820s. The British actually colonized the West Coast, calling it New Albion, which later slides into just Albion. Settlement starts out slow, but hits a high point with the discovery of gold during the 1850s. This causes mass amounts of poor Catholic Irishmen to immigrate to Albion. Years later, Albion gains its independence Brazil style, with a monarchy. At the time of the Map, Virginia is a Republic, and Majority Protestant. Albion is monarchist, and Catholic. The Plains Commonwealth was founded by Virginian former slaves after the Manumission Proclamation of 1852.
France had a better time colonizing Canada, but never founded New Orleans. OTL Louisiana come under control of the Spanish, and was incorporated to the Florida Colony. The Pueblo Revolts ITTL led to the founding of an independent Pueblo Nation, which then incorporated Comancheria. They try to remain as neutral as possible, but since the oil discovery, everyone and their second aunt have been trying to sway them to the “correct side” The Pueblos wisely decide to keep good diplomacy with everyone, and sell to everyone. They act as the Switzerland surrogate, since that got carved up. Interestingly, in ATLs from TTL, ‘Eternally Neutral Pueblo” is a mega cliché. Mexico City got a different name, and ITTL, it’s known as the Empire of Cortesia. The gov’t is delightly corrupt. This is where First World corporations hide all their dirty little secrets. But, with Chinese aid, the Gov’t is getting better..marginally. The Yucatan seceded in the 1950s, causing some grumbling between Mexico, it’s big Bro China, and the Mayans, and their big brother, France.
Most of South America was liberated by a Bolivar expy named Pedrozo. It went Socialist in the 1940s. The Dutch were able to hold onto New Holland. Van Cura’s land was originally founded by the Dutch, but then the Brits took it over, helping them settle Albion. Brazil went two ways. The south stayed with the United Kingdom of Iberia (The Iberian Union 2.0), while the north became independent. They used to have a real problem with the Europeans, but nowadays they’ve mellowed out. Officially neutral, they lean towards Persia with diplomacy. The Brits obtained the Caribbean during their spat with Spain during the 1750s.
Britain had a very different Act of Union, to say the least. During the 1840s, Switzerland got stricken by an ideology called Communalism, Because of this; it was carved up by France, Austria, and then the newly minted Kingdom of Italy. Fast forward 30 years, and all three of those nations got infected by Switzerland’s Revenge. After this came the Revolutionary Wars, when the Liberal nations of Europe tried to stamp out Communalism, but ultimately failed. That’s why both Catalonia and Wallonia are Communalist Germany more or less united out of fear of Scary Radical Austria. Poland was able to strangle Russia in its cradle, and is now one the leading Superpowers. But now, if you were to call it Poland, you’d get your face kicked in by the still quite Russian population. Sweden and Denmark united during the turn of the last Century, and the Norway left with Greenland and Iceland in tow. Now, they fume over the oil discovered in the North Sea. Now that I think about it, oil is the only thing keeping a lot of these countries independent.
Except for the Ottoman Empire, which got on the wrong side of a war with mega industrialized scary radical Persia in the 1890s. This Persia soon ascended to world power within thirty years, uniting much of Asia under the banner of Communalism. After this, a very indecisive world war left the Persians and French despising each other. Japan (or, Giapon as its known ITTL) got curbstomped by the Brits in the 1830s. The Giaponisians then during the World War gained its independence courtesy of France. China pretty much does what it wants, and has been building up a fairly decent alliance system.
Africa is only a little bit better than OTL. On a whole, its more rich, but still has loads and loads of problems. Like, the Bantu state, which still despises French South Africa, and is ready to strike at any time. It really is like North Korea, but with diplomatic skills enough to keep it from being a pariah nation. Also, Aithipia got really bumscrewed by the Brits during one of their moodswings. After a native uprising, the British went way on the other side of the Moral Event Horizon, and now, Aithipia is majority white. On a much lighter note, the Songhai Empire stayed strong, until they got overthrown by radicals during the World War.
Any more questions, just ask.

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Again Seapole, from Thande's base map version of Chris Wayan's world. This is beginning to sound like an overproduced movie...

***​

The harsh, striking deserts of Indochina created the first farmers of Seapole. With the population increasing, hunter gatherers began to more intensively manage plants and animals for food. By -2000, true agriculture had begun to be practiced in the valleys of the Mekong, the Irrawady, and the Chao Praya rivers. Here early farmers cultivated tsemet, an early grain like (biology is... different) plant; lun, a starchy tuber; and a large variety of other plants. Beyond Otter-Dogs, a small chicken like animal was domesticated, a waterfowl (sort of, it's a monotreme), and most importantly a very large grazing bird capable of plowing.

Why Indochina first? Areas with fertile valleys in a desert seem like prime areas for the invention of agriculture (Mesopotamia, the Andes coast, Yellow River etc.); and Indochina in Seapole was not only that, but also at a confluence of diverse ecological reasons, from the altiplan of Tibet, to the forested mountains of the Himalayas.

A similar series of events transpires across the world, in the desert valley of the Mackenzie in Gringolia. Here, experiments with agriculture domesticated a small marsupial cat like animal, and a hoofed ungulate of the Yukon plain. Ndispe, best described as a purplish wheat grown in water, became the major crop, allong with a millet like plant. a It was not long before the agricultural techniques pioneered there began to spread, northward along the vast island chains of Gringolia's west coast, and eventually to Greenland, Iceland, and Eastern Europe (Scandinavia, Britain); and southwards across the great veldt of the Rockies and to the south coast of Gringolia, eventually reaching Kamchatka as well. Thousands of years passed to fully make the transition to the different climates availible in these areas, particularly the Northern Jungles where a large series of new crops were developed. Along the vast Mississippi and laurentian rivers, northern agriculture also spread, creating small villages throughout Gringolia.

The Rainforest's of Seapole gained crops through Gringolia (and not say, Asia or Africa) because of the geography of the world. Only in Gringolia did the large maritime jungles existed, so important for the devlopment of dense peoples in our world. Compare the interior of the Congo to Indonesia, or (if you believe in the recent research) the villages around the shores of the Amazon. In Asia, India faded somewhat into jungle, bu the bulk of the mountainous Persia and Anatolia prevented the full crossover.

Indochinese crops adapted to temperate climes, spreading southwards into Indonesia , and eventually to China and Roo by the year 3000. In the north, in the high mountains of Anatolia, which rose above the jungles of Europe and the plains of Arabia, agriculture developed (like in OTL's Ethiopia and New Guinea). The Alps may have invented agriculture independently, or been inspired by Anatolia, it's unclear. Either way, very soon in the future the littoral regions of Europe will be farmed by Gringolian spread technologies, while high above Alpine farmers will live in their own seperate world, unreachable by the littoral peoples. spices and Chocolate will come from here (as well as Greenland), and it will not be long before the great voyages set sail from China to find the mythical islands of *cinnamon and *pepper: Great Britain.

Again, we journey northwards across the vast inland sea, to the rift valley of Africa where * humanity has once again invented agriculture. Spreading out from their mountain base, farmers also penetrated deep along the valleys of the three Niles (this is Seapole) and towards the Mediterranean coast of Mozambique. On the opposite side of the world, in Amazonia, the many rivers of the Upper Basin have created another civilization, which slowly spreads it's technologies deep into the Andes and along the great Southern Coast.

Pastoralism is new on Seapole, there's less great savannas then on our world. There are two major creatures that have been domesticated and are now ridden across the high plains, both ungulates: a larger, shaggier one with horns (let's call them Elkwos, from a portmanteau of Elk and the proto-Indo-European root for horse) in Afirca and Arabia; and a creature much more like OTL's horse (we'll just call them *horses), although the enormous prehensile tongue and three cloved hoof would be rather obvious, in Mongolia. The Asian pastoralists are older, but Africa will soon have the larger herds, with hoofs stomping from Uganda to beyond lake Chad. Generally though, there's less grazing land then our world.

In total then, Seapolians (Seapolites? Seapolitians? Which one seems best to you all?) have invented agriculture 5 (6?) times, a bit less then our world. But unlike in our world, they're not quite finished. The great vastness of Ornithia has yet to be settled (Patagonia to Ross is longer then you might think), and it beckons to the brave of Amazonia...

Seapoleearlyag copy.png
 
Again Seapole, from Thande's base map version of Chris Wayan's world. This is beginning to sound like an overproduced movie...

***​

The harsh, striking deserts of Indochina created the first farmers of Seapole. With the population increasing, hunter gatherers began to more intensively manage plants and animals for food. By -2000, true agriculture had begun to be practiced in the valleys of the Mekong, the Irrawady, and the Chao Praya rivers. Here early farmers cultivated tsemet, an early grain like (biology is... different) plant; lun, a starchy tuber; and a large variety of other plants. Beyond Otter-Dogs, a small chicken like animal was domesticated, a waterfowl (sort of, it's a monotreme), and most importantly a very large grazing bird capable of plowing.

Why Indochina first? Areas with fertile valleys in a desert seem like prime areas for the invention of agriculture (Mesopotamia, the Andes coast, Yellow River etc.); and Indochina in Seapole was not only that, but also at a confluence of diverse ecological reasons, from the altiplan of Tibet, to the forested mountains of the Himalayas.

A similar series of events transpires across the world, in the desert valley of the Mackenzie in Gringolia. Here, experiments with agriculture domesticated a small marsupial cat like animal, and a hoofed ungulate of the Yukon plain. Ndispe, best described as a purplish wheat grown in water, became the major crop, allong with a millet like plant. a It was not long before the agricultural techniques pioneered there began to spread, northward along the vast island chains of Gringolia's west coast, and eventually to Greenland, Iceland, and Eastern Europe (Scandinavia, Britain); and southwards across the great veldt of the Rockies and to the south coast of Gringolia, eventually reaching Kamchatka as well. Thousands of years passed to fully make the transition to the different climates availible in these areas, particularly the Northern Jungles where a large series of new crops were developed. Along the vast Mississippi and laurentian rivers, northern agriculture also spread, creating small villages throughout Gringolia.

The Rainforest's of Seapole gained crops through Gringolia (and not say, Asia or Africa) because of the geography of the world. Only in Gringolia did the large maritime jungles existed, so important for the devlopment of dense peoples in our world. Compare the interior of the Congo to Indonesia, or (if you believe in the recent research) the villages around the shores of the Amazon. In Asia, India faded somewhat into jungle, bu the bulk of the mountainous Persia and Anatolia prevented the full crossover.

Indochinese crops adapted to temperate climes, spreading southwards into Indonesia , and eventually to China and Roo by the year 3000. In the north, in the high mountains of Anatolia, which rose above the jungles of Europe and the plains of Arabia, agriculture developed (like in OTL's Ethiopia and New Guinea). The Alps may have invented agriculture independently, or been inspired by Anatolia, it's unclear. Either way, very soon in the future the littoral regions of Europe will be farmed by Gringolian spread technologies, while high above Alpine farmers will live in their own seperate world, unreachable by the littoral peoples. spices and Chocolate will come from here (as well as Greenland), and it will not be long before the great voyages set sail from China to find the mythical islands of *cinnamon and *pepper: Great Britain.

Again, we journey northwards across the vast inland sea, to the rift valley of Africa where * humanity has once again invented agriculture. Spreading out from their mountain base, farmers also penetrated deep along the valleys of the three Niles (this is Seapole) and towards the Mediterranean coast of Mozambique. On the opposite side of the world, in Amazonia, the many rivers of the Upper Basin have created another civilization, which slowly spreads it's technologies deep into the Andes and along the great Southern Coast.

Pastoralism is new on Seapole, there's less great savannas then on our world. There are two major creatures that have been domesticated and are now ridden across the high plains, both ungulates: a larger, shaggier one with horns (let's call them Elkwos, from a portmanteau of Elk and the proto-Indo-European root for horse) in Afirca and Arabia; and a creature much more like OTL's horse (we'll just call them *horses), although the enormous prehensile tongue and three cloved hoof would be rather obvious, in Mongolia. The Asian pastoralists are older, but Africa will soon have the larger herds, with hoofs stomping from Uganda to beyond lake Chad. Generally though, there's less grazing land then our world.

In total then, Seapolians (Seapolites? Seapolitians? Which one seems best to you all?) have invented agriculture 5 (6?) times, a bit less then our world. But unlike in our world, they're not quite finished. The great vastness of Ornithia has yet to be settled (Patagonia to Ross is longer then you might think), and it beckons to the brave of Amazonia...
Do the domesticated large birds happen to bear a resemblance to canaries and/or chickens? :D

But yeah, awesome stuff so far. Keep it up. (Also, Seapolians. It's vaguely enough like Napoleon to be amusing.)
 
I don't think Seapole would have much in the way of ice caps without landmasses either to contain it (like the Arctic) or a big chunk of land (like the other pole) to have it grow on. At least they wouldn't be as big as shown in that map.
 
It took me a while but here it is. It's what I think is the most realistic version of a world where the Axis powers won in Europe but lost in the Pacific. If there are any errors ect or ideas, feel free to tell me! I'm also open to questions about the status of nations ect. I'm still working on it too, so don't judge me too harshly. :)

Indochina needs fixing and so does parts of Antarctica.

(PS: POD is mid 1942)

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Do the domesticated large birds happen to bear a resemblance to canaries and/or chickens? :D

But yeah, awesome stuff so far. Keep it up. (Also, Seapolians. It's vaguely enough like Napoleon to be amusing.)
Not really, They're more like ostriches with tremendously thick legs.

I don't think Seapole would have much in the way of ice caps without landmasses either to contain it (like the Arctic) or a big chunk of land (like the other pole) to have it grow on. At least they wouldn't be as big as shown in that map.
The map's a bit misleading, that's the extent of winter sea ice on Seapole, not any kind of icecap. Which can be quite revealing, the polarest parts of Seapole are no more polar then Iceland.
 
It took me a while but here it is. It's what I think is the most realistic version of a world where the Axis powers won in Europe but lost in the Pacific. If there are any errors ect or ideas, feel free to tell me! I'm also open to questions about the status of nations ect. I'm still working on it too, so don't judge me too harshly. :)

Indochina needs fixing and so does parts of Antarctica.

(PS: POD is mid 1942)

What exactly is the POD if you do not mind my asking?
 
Hitler told the Vichy Government that they wold be sorta-compensated for loosing land to Italy and Spain ect.

You should check this out: http://www.afrikareich.com/map.html. The author apparently did a lot of research onto Nazi plans in Africa. Looks like the French were going to get screwed anyway.

Anywho, what's going on between Venezuela and Guyana? Why aren't Germany's 'Reichskomissarats' in Russia marked as colonies (since that was essentially what they were)?

Also, Morocco wouldn't have been outright annexed by Spain I don't think. A protectorate, like it already has in Spanish Morocco, seems more realistic. And why do you have Denmark and (presumabely) Norway marked as fully integrated? Denmark was a special case. I doubt the Nazis are going annex it or Norway.

Lastly, the British protectorates in Arabia are probably going to be more appealing than any other colony, as they are a major source of oil, which the Reich is going to need to keep the war machine moving.
 
You should check this out: http://www.afrikareich.com/map.html. The author apparently did a lot of research onto Nazi plans in Africa. Looks like the French were going to get screwed anyway.

Anywho, what's going on between Venezuela and Guyana? Why aren't Germany's 'Reichskomissarats' in Russia marked as colonies (since that was essentially what they were)?

Also, Morocco wouldn't have been outright annexed by Spain I don't think. A protectorate, like it already has in Spanish Morocco, seems more realistic. And why do you have Denmark and (presumabely) Norway marked as fully integrated? Denmark was a special case. I doubt the Nazis are going annex it or Norway.

Lastly, the British protectorates in Arabia are probably going to be more appealing than any other colony, as they are a major source of oil, which the Reich is going to need to keep the war machine moving.

The map is for a novel.
The author sure did a lot of resarch, but the maps shows the world he created for his novel. For example Jewish Madagaskar was a plan drafted by moderate Nazis in the Foreign Office, stamped upon by Hitler & Himmler who prefered to exterminate the Jews.
What teritorry Germany would annex in Afrika was never really clear. The conservative nostalgics that made the plans for African Colonies wanted them to be as big as possible while the Nazi leadership was sceptical because they feared that it would draw away to much energy from germanizing the East.
Also the Nazis never really made up their minds about France: Make it as weak as possible or leave them something to do in Africa?
 
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