OTOH Stalin by leaving Lviv in Poland would weaken Ukrainian nationalism due to Lviv's importance for Ukrainian national movement.
Of lost monkeys and broken vehicles
- Thread starter Lascaris
- Start date
While Chełm annexation was not pursued, Stalin continued "corrections" of Polish-Soviet border after 1945 (exchange of Krystynopol (now Chervonohrad) for Ustrzyki in 1951) and planned another (Hrubieszów and parts of Tomaszów Lubelski county for Khyriv). Only his death prevented it.
Zurcher argues in "The Young Turk Legacy and Nation Building: From the Ottoman Empire to Atatürk's Turkey " that the 1875-1879 Eastern Crisis made it inevitable that Ottoman Muslim nationalism would take the form it took. The population dislocation associated with it has a massive impact in creating a defensive and chauvinist nationalism (it might had been much more massive then in 1912-1913). He believes that if the Ottomans had either won in 1875-1879 or at least not lost as badly, things might had turned different.
You confuse Stalin with modern Russian triune nationalists. Soviets didn't think Ukrainian nationalism in West Ukraine more unsolvable problem than Ukrainian nationalism in Kyiv. And they was right. Mix of terror, propaganda and post-Stalin economic politics solved this problem until collapse of Soviet system
This is local changes that don't matter in the Lviv question problem
Because hypothetical Kholm oblast had Polish majority like Lviv region between Line A and Line B had Ukrainian majority
PS This dispute is ridiculous in the post-WW2 Transcarpathia annexation context.
PPS We should remember that post-war Polish government is Berut not Sikorsky
That won't be problem for Stalin if he wanted Chełm in USSR. Within two years there would be no trace of Polish majority.
I said if he wanted Chełm in Ukrainian SSR then he'd not care about ethnic compisition. After all he annexed Łomża to BSSR (which makes as much sense as not even Chełm but Lublin or Rzeszów in Ukraine).
Yes. And returned it in 1945 with Białystok. It is irrelevant example for TTL. I asked
Part 117
Athens, April 15th, 1943
Draza Mihailovic left, the building hosting the Yugoslav ministry of war, the Greeks had transferred to the Yugoslavs the building of the German embassy in Vasilisis Sophias 2 avenue back in 1941. The new prime minister Slobodan Jovanovic had at least deigned to be present at the meeting only to have Mihailovic dressed down for his inactivity in fighting the occupier. When Mihailovic had, reasonably he believed, pointed that a more active policy would just multiply Bulgarian and Italian reprisals he had been told flatly that general policy demanded the disruption of the supply lines back to central Europe and that his inactivity endangered the support of the Royal government and favoured the communists. The end result was that he was not returning back to Serbia. As a consolation prize he had been handed command of the 2nd Cavalry division. Which supposedly would be converted to armour as soon as the tanks became available. When the tanks would be made available? That was a different question...
Helsinki, April 15th, 1943
Just like the Turks the Finns following the Stalingrad disaster had start sounding the Allies over leaving the war. Just like Turkey, Finland was not ready to accept Allied demands. The negotiations failed.
Corfu channel, April 17th, 1943
Salamis, shrugged off the hit by the 6in Italian coastal gun with barely a dent at its armour, its 14 inches of belt armour had been designed to stand up to far heavier guns. Moments later its own guns thundered sending a salvo of six 16 inch shells in the direction of the Italian coastal battery. Closer to the coast Allied cruisers and destroyers, pounded anything that looked dangerous as three Greek Euzone regiments and the Polish 2nd Wielkolpolska Grenadier regiment stormed the beaches. Further inland men from the 10th Paratrooper regiment, Corfu's own, were already raising hell all over the island since the previous night.
Over Bougainville, April 18th, 1943
US Magic intercepts had revealed the flight path of admiral Isoroku Yamamoto's planned inspection of the Japanese forces in New Guinea and the Solomon islands. Despite misgivings over possibly revealing to the Japanese that their codes were broken the Americans had decided to act upon it. Eighteen P-38G fighters had jumped Yamomoto's flight. The G4M bomber carrying Yamomoto, true to its nickname between Allied pilots of the "flying zippo" had crashed at sea burning after being hit. None aboard had survived.
Corfu town, April 22nd, 1943
The proverbial wooden rooster that would have to crow for the Italians to leave Corfu had crowed for the third and last time as the survivors of the four thousand men of the Italian garrison, had surrendered the previous day, overwhelmed by Allied forces. Now the Poles of the 2nd Wielkolpolska Grenadier regiment were about to parade through the liberated town, but were in for a surprise of their own as the Philharmonic Society of Corfu received them with the Marsz Pierwszej Brygady...
Philharmonic Society of Corfu playing First Brigade
Moscow, April 25th, 1943
The Soviet Union severed its diplomatic relations with the Polish government in exile. When the Germans had publicized the finding of mass graves with thousands of killed Polish officers two weeks earlier, the Soviet Union had officially claimed that it had nothing to do with the graves and that the Germans had been the perpetrators of the massacres. The Western Allies had every reason to believe the claim to be false of course. But war necessities trounced such minor inconveniences like the truth thus they had accepted the Soviet claims at face value. It hadn't been that easy for the Poles to do the same and they had not. Thus Stalin had added insult to injury and had severed relations claiming the Poles undermined the war effort by propagating Nazi propaganda.
Over Attica, April 28th, 1943
The German Ju-188 reconnaissance aircraft, turned back north. The ports, from Piraeus to Laurion and Eleusis were teeming with transport ships while large American units appeared to be waiting to embark. It all comforted with the intelligence re[prts fpr a Gallipoli landing...
Skaramanga Navy Yard, Attica, April 30, 1943
HNS Meliti, named after the battle of Malta the previous year, the sixth and last of the Kanaris class destroyers, was launched, clearing the slipways. Despite proposals to follow Kanaris class, a close copy of the British J class with American armament, with locally building Battle class destroyers, Britain's latest design, no more destroyers or submarines were getting laid down for the time being. Meliti and the submarines Nereus and Poseidon already under construction would be completed but the navy had received from Britain 6 destroyers and 2 submarines last year, and more were expected this year. Dedicating local resources to landing ships and submarines made more sense...
Draza Mihailovic left, the building hosting the Yugoslav ministry of war, the Greeks had transferred to the Yugoslavs the building of the German embassy in Vasilisis Sophias 2 avenue back in 1941. The new prime minister Slobodan Jovanovic had at least deigned to be present at the meeting only to have Mihailovic dressed down for his inactivity in fighting the occupier. When Mihailovic had, reasonably he believed, pointed that a more active policy would just multiply Bulgarian and Italian reprisals he had been told flatly that general policy demanded the disruption of the supply lines back to central Europe and that his inactivity endangered the support of the Royal government and favoured the communists. The end result was that he was not returning back to Serbia. As a consolation prize he had been handed command of the 2nd Cavalry division. Which supposedly would be converted to armour as soon as the tanks became available. When the tanks would be made available? That was a different question...
Helsinki, April 15th, 1943
Just like the Turks the Finns following the Stalingrad disaster had start sounding the Allies over leaving the war. Just like Turkey, Finland was not ready to accept Allied demands. The negotiations failed.
Corfu channel, April 17th, 1943
Salamis, shrugged off the hit by the 6in Italian coastal gun with barely a dent at its armour, its 14 inches of belt armour had been designed to stand up to far heavier guns. Moments later its own guns thundered sending a salvo of six 16 inch shells in the direction of the Italian coastal battery. Closer to the coast Allied cruisers and destroyers, pounded anything that looked dangerous as three Greek Euzone regiments and the Polish 2nd Wielkolpolska Grenadier regiment stormed the beaches. Further inland men from the 10th Paratrooper regiment, Corfu's own, were already raising hell all over the island since the previous night.
Over Bougainville, April 18th, 1943
US Magic intercepts had revealed the flight path of admiral Isoroku Yamamoto's planned inspection of the Japanese forces in New Guinea and the Solomon islands. Despite misgivings over possibly revealing to the Japanese that their codes were broken the Americans had decided to act upon it. Eighteen P-38G fighters had jumped Yamomoto's flight. The G4M bomber carrying Yamomoto, true to its nickname between Allied pilots of the "flying zippo" had crashed at sea burning after being hit. None aboard had survived.
Corfu town, April 22nd, 1943
The proverbial wooden rooster that would have to crow for the Italians to leave Corfu had crowed for the third and last time as the survivors of the four thousand men of the Italian garrison, had surrendered the previous day, overwhelmed by Allied forces. Now the Poles of the 2nd Wielkolpolska Grenadier regiment were about to parade through the liberated town, but were in for a surprise of their own as the Philharmonic Society of Corfu received them with the Marsz Pierwszej Brygady...
Moscow, April 25th, 1943
The Soviet Union severed its diplomatic relations with the Polish government in exile. When the Germans had publicized the finding of mass graves with thousands of killed Polish officers two weeks earlier, the Soviet Union had officially claimed that it had nothing to do with the graves and that the Germans had been the perpetrators of the massacres. The Western Allies had every reason to believe the claim to be false of course. But war necessities trounced such minor inconveniences like the truth thus they had accepted the Soviet claims at face value. It hadn't been that easy for the Poles to do the same and they had not. Thus Stalin had added insult to injury and had severed relations claiming the Poles undermined the war effort by propagating Nazi propaganda.
Over Attica, April 28th, 1943
The German Ju-188 reconnaissance aircraft, turned back north. The ports, from Piraeus to Laurion and Eleusis were teeming with transport ships while large American units appeared to be waiting to embark. It all comforted with the intelligence re[prts fpr a Gallipoli landing...
Skaramanga Navy Yard, Attica, April 30, 1943
HNS Meliti, named after the battle of Malta the previous year, the sixth and last of the Kanaris class destroyers, was launched, clearing the slipways. Despite proposals to follow Kanaris class, a close copy of the British J class with American armament, with locally building Battle class destroyers, Britain's latest design, no more destroyers or submarines were getting laid down for the time being. Meliti and the submarines Nereus and Poseidon already under construction would be completed but the navy had received from Britain 6 destroyers and 2 submarines last year, and more were expected this year. Dedicating local resources to landing ships and submarines made more sense...
Hmm this is very interesting considering milahovic's literally kicked off the Serbian army but idk about Yugoslavia's politics to know how that'd affect things. Corfu being liberated once again is great and tbf the wooden rooster crows once more lol. Idk if Greece would liberate Caria ever but tbf doing something with the rest of their occupied territories makes more sense. Poland's being shafted as per usual and no one can do anything about it.
On Germany thinking that a Gallipoli landing would occur, I think the allies are actually aiming for Italy considering that the Italian's islands are being taken away and there's not much the Italians can do when the bulk of the allied armies land on Sicily and Southern Italy in general.
On Germany thinking that a Gallipoli landing would occur, I think the allies are actually aiming for Italy considering that the Italian's islands are being taken away and there's not much the Italians can do when the bulk of the allied armies land on Sicily and Southern Italy in general.
Wow you must be on to something here. Corfu being liberated could mean an extra air support base for Italian bombardment as well as a naval base for an invasion of Taranto, or I'm just bamboozled.
Will this mean only subs and landing craft or merchantmen as well and other supply ships that could be of use after the war?
Seeing people that had died OTL from plane crushes I wasn't certain that Yamamoto would die ITTL. I guess the Americans are really effective on all TLs against the Japanese
Guess the question is whether Matome Ugaki still survives ITTL or whether he dies along with Yamamoto ITTL as his plane was with Yamamoto IOTL and he was injured during Operation Vengeance.
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Of course not. The Americans ARE in Greece. And the ports of Attica are roughly 500 nautical miles from Syracuse... many of the British units sailed from further far away in OTL. So the Allies may be about to be storming beaches of Gallipoli... or Athens is the starting base for the second Sicilian expedition.
It means for certain that the port of Agioi Saranda (Sarande) right opposite Corfu which TTL is the end of the railroad going through Epirus just became unusable...
The Americans are churning out Liberty ships by the thousands. A pair more of destroyers and a couple submarines are of little value. LCTsand minesweepers are more useful. Which is a sign of how far Allied production capacity goes...
A random plane crashing or not crashing is one thing. The Americans breaking Japanese codes and shooting down Yamamoto something else...
One thing is certain; Greek-Polish relations are going to be very cordial in the future, after their common fight and the refuge that Greece has provided to thousands of Poles. The question of course is whether there will be a Polish Western-Allied state after the end of the war or not. Most probably not, geography does not favor the Poles. Even in that case the common Polish people will be very warm towards the Greeks.
Ha. I just had an unlikely, though amusing idea. What if in TTL Konigsberg became Krolewiec, capital of Capitalist Poland. Essentially OTL Kaliningrad Oblast becomes Free Poland. Small enough to not cause a threat, a great way to sneak spies into the west, and a place for the Polish dissidents to go be free and not cause problems in Communist Poland. It’s kinda ASB, I know, but I thought it was amusing enough to share.
I'd had a thought that when/if Romania flips ttl that the poles/west allies might manage to push a little bit into Galicia. Though even in that optimistic scenario, politics and diplomacy would likely end against them or any sort of free Poland.
Tbf if the allies landed in Konigsberg idk if the entirety of the German population would be chased out of their homes.
I do hope the Prussians actually learn old Prussian tho lol.