Of lost monkeys and broken vehicles

Part 163
Western Europe, January 1st, 1945

RAF and US Army Air Force crews in air bases across the front had a quiet new year's eve. Later in the day they would start flying missions in support of the Allied ground forces fighting against the German offensive in the Ardennes. Come night the RAF Bomber Command would attack once more German cities dropping over two thousand tons of bombs on Nuenberg and Ludwigshafen.

Burma, January 3rd, 1945


The British had initially hoped to take Akyab island back in late 1942. Bernard Montgomery's 14th Army had finally managed to land on the island in the face of limited Japanese resistance only now. but it was yet more proof of the tide increasingly turning against Japan nearly everywhere. Only in China the Japanese were still winning battles. A week later the British would capture Ganngaw.

Venice, January 6th, 1945


General Dan Pienaar, stopped at the commotion in San Marco square. Venice had been liberated by Allied forces including his South Africans and the Greek 13th Marine Infantry Regiment and the Italian Garibaldi combat group earlier in the day, with jubilant Italian crowds welcoming the liberators. But things here was turning bad with the civilians and some of the Allied soldiers almost at the point of coming to blows.

"What is this? What is going on here?"

"This damn bandits here are trying to steal our horses, signore general! You must stop them!" one of the Italians offered in American accented English.

"What horses? I see no horses."

"These" the Italian helpfully pointed to a quartet of bronze horses in the loggia of St Mark's cathedral. By the side of him a Greek marine captain in his 20s that seemed to have had a drink or two was about to erupt, but remembered his discipline."

"Captain? What is the civilian saying here? Acts of looting are strictly forbidden."

"Sir! My men are not looting anything sir! The damn spaggheti eaters have stolen the horses from Greece! It is my duty to secure the stolen property."

"Stolen? Did the fascists loot them from Macedonia during the occupation and put them here on display? I was not briefed on this." Pienaar noted his adjutant suppressing a snort. What was going on here?

"Lies! I remember the horses signore general since I was a kid!"

"Looted by Enrico Dandolo and his thugs!" the captain burst out.

"Some fascist official? Major I should have been briefed?" Pienaar asked his adjutant. "How they could be stolen if this local says they are here for decades?"

"Er perhaps the captain could explain when they were stolen, sir?" his adjutant answered visibly trying not to burst into laughing.

"Well captain?"

"Sir! 1204, sir!"

"When? Did you really say 1204?"

"1204 sir! The Italians stole them from Constantinople at the time of the 4th crusade, sir. The must be returned to the City now that it's liberated! The Lion too!"

"What lion?" The thing was turning crazy.

"The Lion of Piraeus sir! It was stolen back in 1684 by Morosini."

"So you are trying to recover some horses stolen 750 years ago and a lion statue stolen 250 years ago?

"Why yes sir. They are still Greek sir!"

Pienaar turned gentle. "Are you under orders to do so, captain?" If the kid was following orders from his superiors this could turn ugly.

"Err no sir. When I came by the looted property I used my own initiative, sir!"

"Using initiative is commendable captain, but I'm certain your government would not appreciate a diplomatic incident. If the horses are here since the 13th century I'm certain the matter can wait a bit to be solved in a amicable manner between your government and the new democratic government in Rome."

"Sir! Yes, sir!" The young man clearly did not like the order but just as visibly was too well trained to go against a general. The horses were left in their place.

Poland and East Prussia, January 12th, 1945

The relative quiet in the Eastern front came to an abrupt end as 2.2 million Soviet soldiers under Georgy Zhukov attacked across the Vistula river. Just the next day another 1.7 million Soviet soldiers under Konstantin Rokossovsky. The Werhmacht had fewer than a million men to try to hold against the two offensives...
 
I wouldn’t be surprised if they’re left in place but Italy pays some other kind of reparation instead for it. Maybe some Greek statues from southern Italy get sent over instead?
 
Definitely an interesting little incident. If I had to guess I'd say the horses are likely to stay where they are while the lion might or might not be sent back.

The horses are simply too symbolic of Venice at this point for the Italians to ever let go anywhere IMO, and General Pienaar probably closed the only window for it to happen. Moreover, 1204 is far enough into the rearview mirror that I am skeptical Athens would find a lot of sympathy from other governments on this one, especially since many of them have artifacts they plundered way more recently...

On a more delicate note, and I hope I don't offend by saying so, a more cultured officer might very well have pushed back a bit against the captain's claim to the Greekness of the horses, or at least that they are more inherently Greek then Venetian, as the majority opinion on them among scholars (to the best of my knowledge at least) is that they were made in Antonine Rome, and that we aren't really sure where in the empire they were made as well as how they got to Constantinople.

The Lion, on the other hand, was clearly made in classical Athens, was plundered in a far more recent era and the Greeks can say it was only taken away from them due to them being under the Ottomans' control at the time, which in the climate of 1945 with a still Ottoman Turkey having sided with the Axis, is well suited to earn them sympathy. Its is also far easier for the Italians to accept the departure of the Lion then the horses.

If I had to bet I'd say the Lion goes back alongside some private collections of Greek artifacts gathered by Italian citizens in the 19th and early 20th century who happened to have fallen to the Italian government's hands and some compensation is paid for the horses.

On a more military note, the WAllies are in Venice almost five months ahead of schedule compared to OTL! Nothing is won but the possibility of them getting in control of the pass in time to make a dash to Vienna and perhaps even Prague in the waning days of the conflict is still tantalizingly plausible.
 
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On a more military note, the WAllies are in Venice almost five months ahead of schedule compared to OTL! Nothing is won but the possibility of them getting in control of the pass in time to make a dash to Vienna and perhaps even Prague in the waning days of the conflict is still tantalizingly plausible.
Especially as, for all we know, an Austria-style neutral Czechoslovakia, if not an outright division of the country, might be in the cards ITTL.
 
Western Europe, January 1st, 1945

RAF and US Army Air Force crews in air bases across the front had a quiet new year's eve. Later in the day they would start flying missions in support of the Allied ground forces fighting against the German offensive in the Ardennes. Come night the RAF Bomber Command would attack once more German cities dropping over two thousand tons of bombs on Nuenberg and Ludwigshafen.
No Operation Bodenplatte ITTL. The Luftwaffe is stretched too thin to attempt such an operation (which might not be a bad thing for them, considering the OTL results of the operation).

The incident in Venice was a nice touch. I agree with @phil03 that maybe the Greeks will manage to get some compensation (not entirely sure about the Piraeus Lion though) .
 
Indeed, now if this somehow came to be known or witnessed by some war correspondent that would be able to report it back that it would be published...
The incident in Venice was a nice touch. I agree with @phil03 that maybe the Greeks will manage to get some compensation (not entirely sure about the Piraeus Lion though) .
It would indeed be a wack historical incident that I am sure would be quite common fodder for people who love crazy anecdotes as well.
 
The relative quiet in the Eastern front came to an abrupt end as 2.2 million Soviet soldiers under Georgy Zhukov attacked across the Vistula river. Just the next day another 1.7 million Soviet soldiers under Konstantin Rokossovsky. The Werhmacht had fewer than a million men to try to hold against the two offensives...

Oh no, if only you hadn’t wasted everything you had left in the Battle of the Bulge Adolf, maybe you could have done something about the 4 million Russians smashing through your lines like tissue paper.

Honestly between this and some other events ITTL I think that the mythos around the German WW2 military is going to be significantly diminished. Which is probably a good thing.

On a more military note, the WAllies are in Venice almost five months ahead of schedule compared to OTL! Nothing is won but the possibility of them getting in control of the pass in time to make a dash to Vienna and perhaps even Prague in the waning days of the conflict is still tantalizingly plausible.

Honestly with Venice having already fallen it feels like a mad dash through the Alps is not only possible but probable. Budapest falls in a little over a month from the date they’re in Venice, if the siege follows OTL. Can the Wallies take Austria and Vienna in a month? Probably but it really depends d on how hard the Germans want to fight? It really feels like units are going to stop thinking of winning and start thinking about who they want to surrender too.

Beyond just the geopolitical aspect, if the Prague uprising goes basically the same as OTL except with WAllied help I wonder what happens to the Russian Liberation Army? OTL they were basically kicked out of Prague immediately by the Czech communists and the ones who surrendered to the third army were mostly returned to the Soviets. If the WAllies bleed with them liberating the city I wonder if there’s an effort to try and protect them. There’s already White Russians fighting for the French from Constantinople I think. I could see ROA troops being marked down as KIA only to be signed up by French or Greek officers as men from Constantinople. Maybe a few prisoner “escapes” into allied occupation zones.

It would indeed be a wack historical incident that I am sure would be quite common fodder for people who love crazy anecdotes as well.

“Greece an Italy almost went to war over 4 horses and 9 other crazy historical facts” by Buzzfeed
 
Indeed, now if this somehow came to be known or witnessed by some war correspondent that would be able to report it back that it would be published...
Pienaar will likely have memoirs. And one might add that his survival may be significant in its own self. The man may be a potential successor for Jan Smuts in South Africa. Or nor.
with how the Italians were treating the greeks I think it is kind of inevitable that a few Greeks who know their history attempting that.
Not certain what we mean by this. Greeks and Italians usually went along rather well. Relatively less so at the state level after the unification of Italy but even that was hardly cast in stone either.
I wouldn’t be surprised if they’re left in place but Italy pays some other kind of reparation instead for it. Maybe some Greek statues from southern Italy get sent over instead?
It must be noted that this was not official state policy... although there is a movement to return the lion to Piraeus dating to before world war 2.
Definitely an interesting little incident. If I had to guess I'd say the horses are likely to stay where they are while the lion might or might not be sent back.

The horses are simply too symbolic of Venice at this point for the Italians to ever let go anywhere IMO, and General Pienaar probably closed the only window for it to happen. Moreover, 1204 is far enough into the rearview mirror that I am skeptical Athens would find a lot of sympathy from other governments on this one, especially since many of them have artifacts they plundered way more recently...
I suspect Athens might had found the whole thing embarrassing if our enterprising captain had managed to liberate the horses.
On a more delicate note, and I hope I don't offend by saying so, a more cultured officer might very well have pushed back a bit against the captain's claim to the Greekness of the horses, or at least that they are more inherently Greek then Venetian, as the majority opinion on them among scholars (to the best of my knowledge at least) is that they were made in Antonine Rome, and that we aren't really sure where in the empire they were made as well as how they got to Constantinople.
When anything of the short became "majority opinion"? The only literary reference we have says Theodosius II took them from Chios to Constantinople. And there are arguments they were built by Lysippus.
On a more military note, the WAllies are in Venice almost five months ahead of schedule compared to OTL! Nothing is won but the possibility of them getting in control of the pass in time to make a dash to Vienna and perhaps even Prague in the waning days of the conflict is still tantalizingly plausible.
Arguably the Germans still have an excellent defensive position, it was not accidental that the Austrians held back the Italians between 1915 and 1918. Of course the Germans also have to deal with the Greek and Italian navies in the Adriatic, not to mention everyone else and Allied armies advancing from Yugoslavia...
Oh no, if only you hadn’t wasted everything you had left in the Battle of the Bulge Adolf, maybe you could have done something about the 4 million Russians smashing through your lines like tissue paper.
Someone might have argued the EXACT same thing OTL. And it should also be wrong to blame this on Adolf. German strategy revolves around the "we'll make a single throw of the dice and hope everything works out" since the time of Prussia.
Honestly between this and some other events ITTL I think that the mythos around the German WW2 military is going to be significantly diminished. Which is probably a good thing.
There shouldn't be a myth in the first place. Well blame the Americans employing the men that had their heads handed to them by the Soviets to tell them how to fight best the Soviets.

Another question about the Irish in Italy - did they have any air force unit based there, and if so, what aircrafts are used?
Not in Italy. The Irish Army Air Corps was last seen flying Hudsons for ASW in the battle of the Atlantic.
 
When anything of the short became "majority opinion"? The only literary reference we have says Theodosius II took them from Chios to Constantinople. And there are arguments they were built by Lysippus.
I can't do much more than give Wikipedia-level details on this one, as I am more on political than art history, and what books I have read don't dwell too deep on the subject. Still, the resemblance of the horses with the status of Marcus Aurelius on horseback seems to have convinced a good many classicists that they were made in that war, although, as you say, some held for an earlier date. The passage on Theodosius II might very well be referring to those statues specifically. Still, it only speaks of ''four gilt horses that stand above the Hippodrome'', so it could have easily been speaking of a different set of bronze statues altogether considering how many equine statues were in the Hippodrome overall in its glory days.
 
Appendix Allied Forces in the Near East and Mediterranean January 1945
Supreme Allied Command Mediterranean (Archibald Wavell)

Yugoslavia - Allied Armies of the Orient (Ptolemaios Sarigiannis)
  • 1st Greek Army (Alexandros Papagos)
    • III Airborne brigade
    • 3/40 Euzone Regiment
    • A Corps (Demetrios Psarros)
      • I Infantry Division (Petros Nikolopoulos)
      • XVI Infantry division (Pausanias Katsotas)
      • 1st Armoured Cavalry Division (Konstantinos Davakis)
    • C Corps (Sokratis Demaratos)
      • IX Infantry Division (Panagiotis Spiliotopoulos)
      • XIII Mountain Division (Thraymboulos Tsakalotos)
      • 2nd Armoured Cavalry Division (Christos Avramidis)
    • E Corps (Konstantinos Ventiris)
      • III Armoured Division (Andreas Kallinskis)
      • V Infantry division (Alkiviades Bourdaras)
      • Archipelago division (Christodoulos Tsigantes)
  • 10th British Army (William Slim)
    • 1st Free Polish Corps (Wladislaw Anders)
      • 1 Dywizja Grenadierów
      • 2 Dywizja Strzelców Pieszych
    • 2nd Free Polish Corps (Marian Kukiel)
      • 4 Dywizja Piechoty
      • 2 Dywizja Pancerna
    • New Zealand Corps (Bernard Freyberg)
      • 2nd New Zealand Division
      • 1st Palestine (Israeli) Division
      • 6th Armoured Division
  • 3rd Yugoslav Army group (Milorad Petrovic)
    • 3rd Army (Jovan Naumovic)
      • 5th Infantry Division Šumadijska
      • 20th Infantry Division Bregalnička
      • 3rd Cavalry Division
    • 5th Army (Vladimir Cukavac)
      • 3rd Infantry Division Dunavska
      • 34th Infantry Division Toplička
      • 2nd Cavalry Division
  • Adriatic Army Detachment (Charalambos Katsimitros)
    • B Corps (Efstathios Liosis)
      • IV Infantry Division (Emmanuel Mantakas)
      • VI Infantry Division (Leonidas Spaes)
      • VIII Infantry Division (Napoleon Zervas)
    • 1st Yugoslav Army (Draga Mihailovic)
      • 1st Infantry Division Cerska
      • 9th Infantry Division Timočka
Rear Areas

Kosovo
  • 31st Infantry Division Kosovska
Greek GHQ Reserve
  • X Armoured Division (Ignatios Kallergis)

Near East and Bulgaria - 18th Allied Army Group (Oliver Leese)
  • Army of Asia Minor (Georgios Dromazos)
    • Z Corps (Basileios Brachnos)
      • XII Infantry division (Sotirios Moutousis)
      • 11th Archipelago Infantry Regiment
      • 12th Archipelago Infantry Regiment
      • 16th Infantry Regiment
      • 18th Infantry Regiment
  • British 9th Army (William Holmes)
    • III Corps
      • 1st Infantry Division
      • 6th Indian Division
      • 1st Arab Division (Arab Legion)
      • 1st Assyrian Brigade Group
    • Peshmerga
      • 1st Kurdish Division
      • 2nd Kurdish Division
      • 3rd Kurdish Division
Italy - 15th Army Group (Mark Clark)

Italy and Sicily

  • British 8th Army (Richard McCreery)
    • V British Corps
      • 4th Indian Division
      • 46th Infantry Division
      • 56th Infantry Division
      • 21st Armoured brigade
      • 25th Armoured Brigade
      • 13th Marine Infantry Regiment (Greek)
    • X Corps
      • 10th Indian Division
      • 5th Infantry Division
      • 1st Armoured Division
      • 7th Armoured Brigade
    • XIII Corps
      • 4th Infantry Division
      • 8th Indian Division
      • 8th Armoured Division
      • 9th Armoured brigade
    • I South African Corps
      • 78th Infantry Division
      • 1st South African Armoured Division
      • 6th South African Armoured Division
  • US 5th Army (Lucian Truscott)
    • II Corps
      • 34th Infantry Division
      • 88th Infantry Division
      • 91st Infantry Division
      • Força Expedicionária Brasileira
    • IV Corps
      • 85th Infantry Division
      • 92nd Infantry Division
      • 1st Irish Infantry Division
      • 2nd Irish Infantry Division
    • 1st Armored Division
    • 10th Mountain Division
    • Esercito Italiano di Liberazzione
      • Garibaldi combat group
      • Folgore combat group
      • Legnano combat group
      • Taurinense combat group
      • Friuli combat group
  • French 2nd Army (Antoine Bethouart)
    • 1ere Corps Armee Francaise Libre (Edgard de Larminat)
      • 3e Division d'Infanterie Algérienne
      • 7e Division d'Infanterie Algérienne
      • 1re Division Francaise Libre
      • 3e Division Blindee
    • Greek D Army Corps (Euripidis Bakirtzis)
      • II Greek Infantry Division (Georgios Grivas)
      • VII Infantry Division (Demetrios Kaslas)
      • XI Infantry Division (Demetrios Giantzis)
      • Crete Division (Christos Karassos)
Allied Frontline Strength Jannuary 1st 1945

Yugoslavia

Greek366,961
British Empire89,843
Polish94,373
Yugoslav253,206
NOVJ396,637

Italy

US187,563
British Empire588,270
French100,000
Italian90,863
Greek132,459
Irish41,000
Brazilian25,700
 
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Near East and Bulgaria - 18th Allied Army Group (Oliver Leese)

British 8th Army (Oliver Leese)


Might want to check your commanders. Not sure there's 2 Oliver Leese's or that he's able to be in several places at once.
 
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British 9th Army (William Holmes)
  • III Corps
    • 1st Infantry Division
    • 6th Indian Division
    • 1st Arab Division (Arab Legion)
    • 1st Assyrian Brigade Group
  • Peshmerga
    • 1st Kurdish Division
    • 2nd Kurdish Division
    • 3rd Kurdish Division
Oh British 9th army group. Everytime I’m reminded of your make up I cringe at the impending conflict between your members. I really hope the bonds built here help to resolve the disputed territories peacefully but I have doubts.
 
So Greece is contributing nearly half a million soldiers... An impressive contribution and I am sure it will enhance its status among the United Nations, with some benefits coming out of that. How is the Greek public feeling about this participation? Aren't there any complaints of the type "we have liberated our lands, what are we doing fighting and getting killed in Yuhoslavia and in Italy?"
How many are the total Greek dead and missing persons in military personnel since the start of the war?
 
It will be worth knowing the strength of the italian formations. It seems that co-belligerent Italy is more successful in TTL, so there is a good chance the italian formations are stronger.

Then there is the matter of the force allocation in the Balkan Front. Considering the Allies are motorized and mechanized, I would be that they will get the Syrmian Front with the flat terrain, while the Partisans will get the more mountainous Bosnian Front. Certainly there will be supply constraints for the Allies but they have a pretty decent chance of breaking the german frontlines in Syrmia. The Heer will have to allocate more forces there compared to OTL and these forces can only be taken from the Italian Front. I would say that the Allies have a very decent chance of breaking through the Ljubljana Gap in April 1945. Considering the german resources there will be a strong but brittle line with limited reserves once the Gap is breached.
 
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