Map Thread XXI
- Thread starter fluttersky
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A bit more of my efforts on making the map more colorful, also changed a number of details both in the map and the legend. Sorry that I didn't switch to another font that is more pleasant to the eyes, too much re-typing.
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Dagoth Ur
Banned
Kind of strange for South Africa to be *more* racist with a higher white population. If anything it'd be less, since they wouldn't feel as threatened or in danger of being "driven into the sea".
Ah I meant to say they are more racist than this ATL Brazil, not the OTL South Africa. But well, you certainly have a point.
Would they though?
Racism and how virulent it is isn't tied to how small a ruling minority can be.
I'm pretty sure the American south had a higher portion of whites than South Africa, and it didn't stop them from waging acts of terror to keep the black population in line, let alone the rest of Jim Crow laws.
A world where the Hoare-Laval pact is accepted by the French and British governments, so keeping afloat their alliance with Mussolini's Italy against Nazi Germany. Without Mussolini getting isolated, he keeps opposing, with Franco-British support, German ambitions to annex Austria.
Finally, in early 1939, with it's national reserves close to end, the Nazis, desperate for some relief, decide to try their luck and invade Austria. On their backdoor talks, they managed to convince Yugoslavia to join them, promising to allow them to take south Carinthia from Austria and, if the Itailans got into the fight, the former Austrian Littoral and Zadar from them.
But this invasion ends leading to a massive response by Britain, France and Italy, joined by Poland and Czechoslovakia (both fearful of further German expansions), and, joining against Yugoslavia, Hungary, Bulgaria, and Albania (not annexed by Italy ITTL, given there was no Nazi expansion so far motivating Mussolini to expand in Europe, but frimly under Italian influence). By late 1939, the Austrian War is finished, with the defeat of Nazi Germany and Yugoslavia.
Now we're at late 1940, one year after the war. Germany has been divided in occuation zones of the six countries that took part on it's invasion, with the British and French jointly occupying the Ruhr, and all them jointly ocuppying Berlin. Poland has been allowed to annex Masuria, Upper Silesia, and Danzig, albeit with all them keeping some special autonomy.
Yugoslavia has been dismembered, with Albania, Bulgaria, and Hungary taking pieces of it, and independent, pro Italian states being carved out of Slovenia, Croatia, Bosnia, and Montenegro.
Along 1940, Mussolini proposed and started the Iron Axis, joining hard-right regimes of Europe around him. The British, with the Nazi issue now solved, became focused on containing the Soviet Union, and proposed the formation of an anti-Soviet pact. All of the Iron Axis joined it, being accepted that any member of this alliance would be automatically part of the anti-Soviet pact. France, with a strong left-wing element on government, stayed outside of the pact.
Romania showed interest in joining the ani-Soviet pact, but Mussolini vetoed it's entry unless it solved it's border disputes with Italy's allies Hungary and Bulgaria. As a result, it ceded Southern Dobruja to Bulgaria and the Hungarian-majority areas along the Hungarian border to Hungary.
Czechoslovakia, Lithuania, and Greece, all of them with disputes with Iron Axis countries, alarmed to see the formation of this bloc, went after the Soviet Union for reassurance. The Soviets were quick to enter in a pact with the Czechoslovaks, but demanded free elections (expecting left-wing wins) in Lithuania and Greece to deal with them. After considerable popular pressure, the Smetona and Metaxas governments finally accepted free elections, won by the Social Democrats in Lithuania and by the Venizelists in Greece. These new governments then got reassurance pacts with the Soviets.
Dagoth Ur
Banned
That's comparing apples to oranges. Apartheid was WAY bigger and more demented than just segregation and Jim Crow.
Rather imagine apartheid South Africa with very few whites (if it would exist at all). Basically the white small towns and farms would be isolated compounds. Now imagine apartheid South Africa with 90% whites. There's no need for apartheid (might still be segregation though) anymore because there's no fear of blacks "taking over" or "ruling over the whites".
No. When Yugoslavia tried to join the Axis in OTL, it lead to a coup establishing a pro-Allied government.
@Dagoth Ur has the right of it
An election of consequence in South African politics was the 1948 election between the United & National Parties; the United Party led by Jan Smuts was pro-British and in favor of increased white emigration to South Africa, especially white British and more liberal immigration. On the other hand you had the National Party and Malan who after they won IOTL destroyed the South African emigration fleet to prevent other white people from coming to South Africa and the only white immigrants they would accept were Dutch Protestants, which was like, >5,000 people
Conversely, a larger white South African population would probably see most of that growth in more liberal-leaning white British people, and in the referendum that led to the South African UDI the largely British-descended Natal province voted against the Afrikaans-dominated republic. So you'd probably see a larger white population and its Britishness lead to an earlier end of apartheid, because the white minority wouldn't be exclusively Afrikaans-dominated and develop that peculiar siege mentality which led to apartheid IOTL
since brain doesn't want me to post this (due to some yada yada stuff about wanting to change it), here's... something. my main idea is what if the congress of vienna somehow led to a dictatorship in the usa ran by a profit seeking demoreps, until a bunch of revolutions in the early 1900s'll lead to their downfall and exile. thoughts?
Why does the Anti-Soviet pact have a wine color that is unused in the map itself?
Nice map!
That province on the north of Lake Superior probably has all of 200 thousand people. Still more then Prince Edward Island I guess...
The one to the north probably less, though if we are imagining a horde of Americans felling civil war porting across the border. Maybe they can be somehow convinced to settle way up there?
That province on the north of Lake Superior probably has all of 200 thousand people. Still more then Prince Edward Island I guess...
The one to the north probably less, though if we are imagining a horde of Americans felling civil war porting across the border. Maybe they can be somehow convinced to settle way up there?
the superior province im pretty sure having it as a compromise between the *mormon settlers, ontario, and the HBC, aka making it a separate province from the latter 2 and having it be a safehaven for persons non grata (aka free african americans, religious minorities, etc) during the Dominionist (demoreps) regime. The hudson bay province is basically just an extension of the HBC, due to half corporate loopholes and half the british just having way too much to deal with and too scared that the americans would try to buy it
thanks> the derangedity was somewhat the point of it, with me mainly wanting to come up with a plausible excuse for a prussia-poland.It's.... Deranged. I kinda like it
Well... if you think about it... the OTL hostility between Prussians and Poles is sort of a late development... as is evidenced by the number of Prussian nobility who had a -ski at the end of their names 😜
I think, most Germans - including myself - would be muuuuch more content with something like this:
(No need to say that this would be much more realistic .... )
Well, that's pretty much self-explanatory. And no one reads the footnotes anyway.
Too small to read even when maximised.
Well, that's pretty much self-explanatory. And no one reads the footnotes anyway.
Techno Angel
Banned
Looks cool, would like to know more about Europe and hope that it doesn't turn into generic 'reverse cold war' thing
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