For All Mankind (AH Tv series at Apple TV)

[Luath]

I’m torn on FAL, Soviets first on the moon? Continued space race beyond 1969? You had me at hello, I am the easiest lay for this. And sure the first season had a few rough spots, but it was solid overall. I echo the sentiment that we really could use a look at the changes to the Soviet program. But I really had nothing to complain about in S1, the pacing was good, the evolution of the characters and the program was logical, the action could be slow paced, but had a nice burn to it and the drama... was a bit soapy but not that bad.

Then I saw the trailer for S2, ho boy. Space shuttle to the moon, oh dear. Space Marines? Oh no! Yeah the first half of S2 was a slog for me, to the point that I was starting to skip bits of the ‘drama’ stuff. Maybe it just lend itself better in BSG, but not here. I was almost ready to quit by the mid-point, but then the last three episodes really pulled the show out of a tailspin. And say what you want, Gordo’s arc really stuck the landing. Pardon the pun. I just really wish that it had been a continuation of the Apollo, rather that STS. But, well that would probably involve a lot of budget unfriendly CGI and the Shuttle is familiar to people. Plus I imagine there could be a ton of copyright and security issues surrounding showing the Soviet problem. So... well it’s probably the best ah show I’m going to get, so I guess YMMV. Though if we get to see a scene of an orbital refueling depot, and it mean one less scene of Karen and Kelly bickering over college, I’m not going to complain.

 

[MaxGerke01]

I’m torn on FAL, Soviets first on the moon? Continued space race beyond 1969? You had me at hello, I am the easiest lay for this. And sure the first season had a few rough spots, but it was solid overall. I echo the sentiment that we really could use a look at the changes to the Soviet program. But I really had nothing to complain about in S1, the pacing was good, the evolution of the characters and the program was logical, the action could be slow paced, but had a nice burn to it and the drama... was a bit soapy but not that bad.

Then I saw the trailer for S2, ho boy. Space shuttle to the moon, oh dear. Space Marines? Oh no! Yeah the first half of S2 was a slog for me, to the point that I was starting to skip bits of the ‘drama’ stuff. Maybe it just lend itself better in BSG, but not here. I was almost ready to quit by the mid-point, but then the last three episodes really pulled the show out of a tailspin. And say what you want, Gordo’s arc really stuck the landing. Pardon the pun. I just really wish that it had been a continuation of the Apollo, rather that STS. But, well that would probably involve a lot of budget unfriendly CGI and the Shuttle is familiar to people. Plus I imagine there could be a ton of copyright and security issues surrounding showing the Soviet problem. So... well it’s probably the best ah show I’m going to get, so I guess YMMV. Though if we get to see a scene of an orbital refueling depot, and it mean one less scene of Karen and Kelly bickering over college, I’m not going to complain.

Its the price that must be paid to make shows like this possible. In order to get people like Apple TV and Amazon Prime to approve these shows they have to give them something that draws in as many viewers as possible...

 

[dsp19]

RDM says there's 7 seasons planned out, each one in a different decade

'For All Mankind' Season 3 and beyond: Ron Moore reveals his "7-year arc"

The writer-producer of 'Battlestar Galactica,' 'For All Mankind,' and your favorite ‘90s Star Treks, talks about alternate timelines, deep-cut Easter eggs, and how he writes sci-fi TV.

www.inverse.com

Star Trek Phase II happened in this timeline, Wrath of Khan was the first movie.

So in Ronald Moore's For All Mankind timeline, the Star Trek movies are going to be bigger than they were IRL because they would be coming off the back of two successful television series with the original crew. Possibly Star Wars big in terms of $$$. I'm doing a Star Trek timeline in the post-1900 history board where I plan on having the Star Trek movies turning into huge blockbusters like SW.

Also, if Moore is planning on four more seasons after this one, we are going to end up in the 2030s. Could For All Mankind be retconned into the Star Trek universe and act as some of the 20th and 21st century history for Trek? He would have to retcon the Eugenics Wars most likely, but it is doable.

So many intriguing possibilities with this series. The Mars season could work, but I just wonder how they're able to pull it off with 1990s tech, since IRL we haven't pulled it off and we're in 2021...

Also, if Moore plans to write the series into the 2030s and finish the work before 2030, there would at least have to be a fictional POTUS for the last season...

 

[Ato]

So in Ronald Moore's For All Mankind timeline, the Star Trek movies are going to be bigger than they were IRL because they would be coming off the back of two successful television series with the original crew. Possibly Star Wars big in terms of $$$. I'm doing a Star Trek timeline in the post-1900 history board where I plan on having the Star Trek movies turning into huge blockbusters like SW.

Also, if Moore is planning on four more seasons after this one, we are going to end up in the 2030s. Could For All Mankind be retconned into the Star Trek universe and act as some of the 20th and 21st century history for Trek? He would have to retcon the Eugenics Wars most likely, but it is doable.

So many intriguing possibilities with this series. The Mars season could work, but I just wonder how they're able to pull it off with 1990s tech, since IRL we haven't pulled it off and we're in 2021...

Also, if Moore plans to write the series into the 2030s and finish the work before 2030, there would at least have to be a fictional POTUS for the last season...

Well its less technological development, most of the work for all this stuff was done back in the 60s and 70s even in our timeline, its more the political will and economic ability to do it.
For example the NERVA engine that powers the Pathfinder is not science fiction its a real nuclear rocket propulsion system that was developed and tested in the 70s (and was by all accounts was considered a great success, NASA planned to use it for a Mars mission in '78) for deep space exploration but never actually used for any projects due to lack of funding.

It is part of of the allure of For all Mankind, this was all possible, or at least something similar to it was, if the people at the time had been willing to expend the effort to do it.

 

[Ogrebear]

Liked that episode- good end to the series and really nicely sets up Season 3.

Spoiler

I was hoping Gordo and Tracey would figure out a way to get the spacesuit from the dead guy right outside their room.
Great use of old tech there- that vending machine is almost a character now!
So the Baldwin's split up- I actually hope they do not divorce so there is a chance of reconciliation later.
Could Poole run for office I wonder?
Of course Gordo and Tracy did the 'run' together - it actually makes sense they did as Tracey said. I hoped they would make it...
Jamestown personnel might have run to help Tracey and Gordo instead of causally dealing with the Russian first!
Where was Tracey's husband Sam at the funeral?
Noticed Danny looking at Karen at the funeral, guess that flame didn't die.
I wonder how long it will take Molly to go blind? Laser eye surgery was started in 87 so she might not go blind, even if she cannot fly anymore...
Sergei seems quite reluctant about his 'mission' - wonder if he will defect by Season 3?
Anyone know enough about space boots to ID if those ones on Mars where American or Russian?
Feel sorry for all those Sea Dragon engineers who will need to do a huge investigation when 'it got shot down' is the real answer.
Nice to see Buran, even if we did not see it clearly.
Poole would have got into a ton of trouble if not for the handshake getting Presidential approval. Bet it never gets mentioned again
Good work there Ed, you took the best option.
Could Air Force One even get to Moscow direct? Mid-air refuelling over Europe I bet.
So the Marine guy Webster saved must have survived since there where 4 coffins- guy sucked through window, Tracey, Gordo, and Vance.

 

[dsp19]

Well its less technological development, most of the work for all this stuff was done back in the 60s and 70s even in our timeline, its more the political will and economic ability to do it.
For example the NERVA engine that powers the Pathfinder is not science fiction its a real nuclear rocket propulsion system that was developed and tested in the 70s (and was by all accounts was considered a great success, NASA planned to use it for a Mars mission in '78) for deep space exploration but never actually used for any projects due to lack of funding.

It is part of of the allure of For all Mankind, this was all possible, or at least something similar to it was, if the people at the time had been willing to expend the effort to do it.

Interesting. How fast would that rocket hypothetically transport a person from Earth to Mars, assuming the launch window is right and Mars reaches its closest point to Earth (approximately 55 million kilometers)? The other issue with the man on Mars is that on the first mission, you have to be able to get the man back to Earth, which I think is more challenging technologically. Perhaps a 3 month transit to Mars and a 3-4 month trip back with a nuclear powered rocket? The last mission which landed Perseverance on Mars took 7 1/2 months or so to get there, and they plan on launching Perseverance back from Mars to Earth after a year or so.

 

[Polish Eagle]

Interesting. How fast would that rocket hypothetically transport a person from Earth to Mars, assuming the launch window is right and Mars reaches its closest point to Earth (approximately 55 million kilometers)? The other issue with the man on Mars is that on the first mission, you have to be able to get the man back to Earth, which I think is more challenging technologically. Perhaps a 3 month transit to Mars and a 3-4 month trip back with a nuclear powered rocket? The last mission which landed Perseverance on Mars took 7 1/2 months or so to get there, and they plan on launching Perseverance back from Mars to Earth after a year or so.

We know that Pathfinder has a delta-v of up to 9 km/s, since it flies itself to Earth orbit from the back of a subsonic airplane. Going by NASA's trajectory browser website, and assuming refueling in Low Earth Orbit, Pathfinder is capable of flying to Mars in roughly 2 months.

The return trip is rather harder to guess at--my gut instinct is to suggest that Pathfinder could then be refueled using the Martian atmosphere (since a nuclear thermal rocket isn't too picky, in theory, and could be made to use different reaction materials--see Zubrin's paper on nuclear-propelled hoppers he calls "NIMFs"), though timing for the return flight might compel the crew to stay on the planet for a year or so until Earth is back in a good location.

There is no current plan to retrieve Perseverence.

 

[Luath]

Liked that episode- good end to the series and really nicely sets up Season 3.

Spoiler

I was hoping Gordo and Tracey would figure out a way to get the spacesuit from the dead guy right outside their room.
Great use of old tech there- that vending machine is almost a character now!
So the Baldwin's split up- I actually hope they do not divorce so there is a chance of reconciliation later.
Could Poole run for office I wonder?
Of course Gordo and Tracy did the 'run' together - it actually makes sense they did as Tracey said. I hoped they would make it...
Jamestown personnel might have run to help Tracey and Gordo instead of causally dealing with the Russian first!
Where was Tracey's husband Sam at the funeral?
Noticed Danny looking at Karen at the funeral, guess that flame didn't die.
I wonder how long it will take Molly to go blind? Laser eye surgery was started in 87 so she might not go blind, even if she cannot fly anymore...
Sergei seems quite reluctant about his 'mission' - wonder if he will defect by Season 3?
Anyone know enough about space boots to ID if those ones on Mars where American or Russian?
Feel sorry for all those Sea Dragon engineers who will need to do a huge investigation when 'it got shot down' is the real answer.
Nice to see Buran, even if we did not see it clearly.
Poole would have got into a ton of trouble if not for the handshake getting Presidential approval. Bet it never gets mentioned again
Good work there Ed, you took the best option.
Could Air Force One even get to Moscow direct? Mid-air refuelling over Europe I bet.
So the Marine guy Webster saved must have survived since there where 4 coffins- guy sucked through window, Tracey, Gordo, and Vance.

Sam is present in the archived looking footage. I only wonder just how stunned Soviet air command must have been when Air Force One showed up in the middle of all that.

 

[Expat]

Now that the initial excitement’s died down, I keep going back to something stupid: that last song. I get it, you’d be hard-pressed to find a more iconic 90s band than Nirvana. You immediately know what you’re about to get: another 10-year time jump.

But still, I think we could’ve done better! Especially since last season’s song (Everybody Wants to Rule the World) fit so well with the Cold War tension theme. I guess in the most literal sense you could say we’re coming as we are to Mars, and hopefully no one has a gun. It just felt a little flat.

Better 90s songs to get me excited about Mars:
Woo Hoo, Blur
Fly Away, Lenny Kravitz
Intergalactic, Beastie Boys
Girl From Mars, Ash
Tonight Tonight, Smashing Pumpkins (well, the video’s a Voyage to the Moon tribute so maybe not, but it’s a banger)
Or just go for broke and give us Quad City DJs Space Jam

In the 2000s season I am putting down a marker now for Such Great Heights and at least something off of Yoshimi Battles the Pink Robots.

 

[Luath]

The read I have on Poole and the Cosmonauts defying orders is ‘the world’s about to end, so fuck it, let’s go out on high note’. But yes, very much, Poole would otherwise be in hot water, if not for the aforementioned, ‘potentially saved all of humanity, and inspired Ronald Reagan to make the diplomatic move of the century’.

 

[MaxGerke01]

Also, if Moore is planning on four more seasons after this one, we are going to end up in the 2030s. Could For All Mankind be retconned into the Star Trek universe and act as some of the 20th and 21st century history for Trek? He would have to retcon the Eugenics Wars most likely, but it is doable.

Even without the EW and WW3 the 20th and 21st centuries of FAM are closer to what it would be for Earth in Star Treks timeline than OTL Earth is. Although Star Tek Earth is probably more advanced. I wish its still possible to firmly establish Star Trek as an AH.Somehow I think if RDM were calling the shots with Star Trek it would be done....

Also, if Moore plans to write the series into the 2030s and finish the work before 2030, there would at least have to be a fictional POTUS for the last season...

Well it could be but it doesnt have to be.There would still be real world younger politicians and others on the scene now that could be projected into power in the later 2020's and 2030's once FAM switches to future history from alternate histoy...

 

[Sasalele]

Whew just finished the season finale. I like how they didn’t chicken out and have the Stevens make it home alive.

Truthfully, I don’t think the Danny Steven/Karen thing is going to go away. I mean having both of your parents killed and he already had deep personal issues. Oh boy...

I have a lot of thoughts

I look forward to seeing what happens with Aleida. With Kelly, I hope she doesn’t join NASA. It just seems a bit much for me.

I think the Soviet Union will still exist in 1995, be it restructured by something like the New Union Treaty or otherwise.

Oh and the Gulf War too, I wonder what that’s like.

 

[MaxGerke01]

Also speaking of sci fi tv in the 1990s of FAM I think there is a chance something like The X Files doesnt catch on because there is less mistrust of government and conspiracy mindedness on both left and right. On the other hand shows like Earth 2 and Space Above and Beyond could join Star Trek and Star Wars as major hits...

Edit also possible BSG 1978,V and Alien Nation are successful hits.

 

[MaxGerke01]

I think the Soviet Union will still exist in 1995, be it restructured by something like the New Union Treaty or otherwise.
Oh and the Gulf War too, I wonder what that’s like.

The continued existence of the Soviet Union could really lead to making the whole Middle East more peaceful and stable than OTL as the Arabs in general and Palestinians in particular might feel like they have a broker with the Soviet Union that is more interested in them as opposed to Israel than the US ever could be seen . Maybe there is no Gulf War ,no rise of Osama bin Laden ,no 9/11/War on Terror ? A real two state solution ? We can only hope....

EDIT It seems to me if the intent is to ultimately make the FAM TL "better" than OTL much of that does need to be butterflied away...

 

[MaxGerke01]

The read I have on Poole and the Cosmonauts defying orders is ‘the world’s about to end, so fuck it, let’s go out on high note’. But yes, very much, Poole would otherwise be in hot water, if not for the aforementioned, ‘potentially saved all of humanity, and inspired Ronald Reagan to make the diplomatic move of the century’.

I agree that is possible but what about Ed and company ? Wasnt what they did even more egregious as far as the Reagan adminstration and Pentagon were concerned since their whole mission was to get the Sea Dragon- and whatever was in it-to the Moon safely ? To me their destruction of it going completley unaddressed by the powers that currently be despite what came from it seems a little unrealistic.All might be forgiven if Hart or Carter get in-but for now ?

 

[Sunstone77]

I agree that is possible but what about Ed and comapny ? Wasnt what they did even more egregious as far as the Reagan adminstration and Pentagon were concerned since their whole mission was to get the Sea Dragon- and whatever was in it-to the Moon safely ? To me their destruction of it going completley unaddressed by the powers that currently be despite what came from it seems a little unrealistic.All might be forgiven if Hart or Carter get in-but for now ?

The powers that be likely know exactly what happened but publicly admitting would hurt their image and the narrative they’ve built, so they trot out the line about it being an equipment malfunction while ay the same time privately kicking Ed upstairs or “encouraging” him to retire, either way keeping him grounded.

The fallout of Sea Dragon destruction on Ed is probably something that’ll be addressed in season 3 and simply ignored for now because it didn’t quite fit with the tone they wanted for those finale scenes

 

[Pipcard]

I do wonder how Japan will fit into this world with NASDA (The pre-2003 name for JAXA) and other space missions?

Thomas Paine was going to South Korea to talk about forming an "East Asian Space Alliance." I get that this is an excuse to put him on KAL 007, but Korea didn't have a space agency (KARI) until 1989 and no orbital rockets until 2009 (in OTL). While NASDA already had rockets (based on licensed Deltas) and astronauts being trained in the 80s, but Japan's space program wasn't even mentioned.

 

[dsp19]

Also speaking of sci fi tv in the 1990s of FAM I think there is a chance something like The X Files doesnt catch on because there is less mistrust of government and conspiracy mindedness on both left and right. On the other hand shows like Earth 2 and Space Above and Beyond could join Star Trek and Star Wars as major hits...

Edit also possible BSG 1978,V and Alien Nation are successful hits.

Six Million Dollar Man would likely have a feature film or two, and Buck Rogers would also be more successful, since the main character in that series was an astronaut from the 20th century frozen for centuries. BSG would also be more successful. Perhaps Gene Roddenberry puts his ideas of Battleground Earth and Andromeda into production and they both become series before he dies; ITTL Battleground Earth (as Earth: Final Conflict IRL) and Andromeda were produced after Roddenberry's death. Another possibility is a sequel or series of movies for Close Encounters of the Third Kind.

But Moore saying that Phase II is an award winning Star Trek series in the For All Mankind timeline means that the original Star Trek crew would have seven or eight seasons of television under their belts, assuming Phase II started in 1977 and ended in 1981 or 1982 to produce TWOK. That makes Star Trek far bigger than it is IRL (and it is pretty big IRL). Perhaps Paramount would create their own network in the For All Mankind universe in 1977 to broadcast Star Trek as its top show and pull its TV properties from the Big Three networks, becoming the fourth major TV network

 

[Expat]

Six Million Dollar Man would likely have a feature film or two, and Buck Rogers would also be more successful, since the main character in that series was an astronaut from the 20th century frozen for centuries. BSG would also be more successful. Perhaps Gene Roddenberry puts his ideas of Battleground Earth and Andromeda into production and they both become series before he dies; ITTL Battleground Earth (as Earth: Final Conflict IRL) and Andromeda were produced after Roddenberry's death. Another possibility is a sequel or series of movies for Close Encounters of the Third Kind.

But Moore saying that Phase II is an award winning Star Trek series in the For All Mankind timeline means that the original Star Trek crew would have seven or eight seasons of television under their belts, assuming Phase II started in 1977 and ended in 1981 or 1982 to produce TWOK. That makes Star Trek far bigger than it is IRL (and it is pretty big IRL). Perhaps Paramount would create their own network in the For All Mankind universe in 1977 to broadcast Star Trek as its top show and pull its TV properties from the Big Three networks, becoming the fourth major TV network

That’s a solid call. Telecom is more robust in this era, so an earlier 4th network seems reasonable on that end. And we know IOTL that Paramount was considering it. Maybe not pulling properties (everyone produced for each other and bought from independents more readily in this era) but more money and ideas are swimming around, we know the floodgate of 80s cartoons opened early, there’s no shortage of news anchors, there’s plenty of creative juice for a 4th, it’s reasonable to say.

Then the question becomes, do we have room for a 5th network (Fox) or is Rupert Murdoch left out in the cold?

 

[dsp19]

BTW its very interesting news that there was an award winning Star Trek Phase 2 ittl.Also despite this thread seeming to be replete with Trekkers I think it got past all of us that ttls Wrath of Khan came in in 1983 instead of 1982. RDM confirms it was the first Trek movie though. So I would love to see speculation about what Phase Two was like and an episode guide for it and what awards it won and the works. We need a seperate thread for that.

My timeline in the post-1900 board does something like this, but there is no Phase II

WI: The Enterprise completes its five year mission (Star Trek survives for 5 seasons)

One of the worst decisions ever made by a television network was NBC's cancellation of Star Trek (the Original Series) after its third season in 1969. After two years of middling ratings placed Star Trek in the Friday Night death time slot, at 10:00 PM, so fewer fans would be able to watch the...

www.alternatehistory.com

Instead, I added two seasons to TOS's original run and it wins an Emmy for Outstanding Series before its run ends in my TL. I introduced the Phase II characters (Decker and Xon) in the last season of TOS and Ilia in the animated series in my TL. I also created a different Vietnam war scenario during the Nixon administration, a slightly different Watergate scenario, and a few other things that lead to Nixon's defeat in the 1972 presidential election (not by McGovern though, you'll have to read the TL to see how I pull it off as I don't want to give up all my secrets)!