For All Mankind (AH Tv series at Apple TV)

[MaxGerke01]

Also I just have to say that this show besides being a great head cannon past for the movies 2001 and 2010 and even Star Trek is a real slice of what your life may have been like for those of us who were kids and teenagers in the 1970s and 1980s and had grown up hearing how different and special the Year 2000 would be.It was a big let down once we realized it wouldnt be that different or special but at least we have this show to help us imagine what it could have been like

 

[Tuskin38]

Still processing the ep, but damn compelling. Great tv. I did want to share that image Apple gave to The Ringer, which I guess ended up on the cutting room floor.

Spoiler

View attachment 645051

That might have just been a test image.

Spoiler: How thing could evolve

Danielle Poole she will in hell of trouble on return or become National Hero in both cases Grounded for life...

Spoiler

I doubt it, Ellen approved it in the last minute, and the President loved it

 

[Tuskin38]

RDM says there's 7 seasons planned out, each one in a different decade

'For All Mankind' Season 3 and beyond: Ron Moore reveals his "7-year arc"

The writer-producer of 'Battlestar Galactica,' 'For All Mankind,' and your favorite ‘90s Star Treks, talks about alternate timelines, deep-cut Easter eggs, and how he writes sci-fi TV.

www.inverse.com

Star Trek Phase II happened in this timeline, Wrath of Khan was the first movie.

 

[SpaceOrbisGaming]

That might have just been a test image.

Spoiler

I doubt it, Ellen approved it in the last minute, and the President loved it

I doubt Danielle Poole has much to worry about. The joining of the two crafts was given the green light and it aided in stopping a war. If anything she'll be a hero. It wouldn't be hard to believe she may go on late-night talk shows because of doing this.

 

[Ato]

A highly compelling finale, and I can't wait for season 3.

Though I'm not sure if the show will go this way, I think there would now be a strong compulsion for the US to create a dedicated space military force.
This is a timeline that has seen three infantry actions on the moon, including an armed takeover of a US base, and an intercept between two armed spacecraft in lunar orbit.
The politics would likely be very strongly demanding a better defence of US space assets. Especially if as hinted in the show the USSR survives into the 90s.

 

[AdmiralMB]

I'm fairly sure George W Bush was the vice president for Reagan so aside from the years being a bit different I could see him becoming president still. Seeing as it seems season three will be set in 1995 that puts us in the Clinton years.

The first Gulf War was in the late 1980s to like 1991 to 1992. So whoever is the president could have overseen the war or was put into office just after it ended.

Richard Schweiker was Reagan's choice for running mate in OTL and ITTL's '76 election, although he likely loses in '84 to Gary Hart who does two terms. When the show picks up again in the early 90s I'm pretty sure Ellen Wilson is going to be the new POTUS, and if she can't get to Mars herself she's gonna make damn sure the US still gets there first.

I think there would now be a strong compulsion for the US to create a dedicated space military force.

An earlier Space Force founding is all but certain now. Between the assault on Jamestown and Pathfinder effectively demonstrating ship-to-ship missiles in space the militarization of space is going to be a reality of the 90s.

 

[SpaceOrbisGaming]

A highly compelling finale, and I can't wait for season 3.

Though I'm not sure if the show will go this way, I think there would now be a strong compulsion for the US to create a dedicated space military force.
This is a timeline that has seen three infantry actions on the moon, including an armed takeover of a US base, and an intercept between two armed spacecraft in lunar orbit.
The politics would likely be very strongly demanding a better defence of US space assets. Especially if as hinted in the show the USSR survives into the 90s.

I could be wrong but I think one of the things that happened at the end is a demilitarization of the Moon and maybe space overall. But given the fact we seem to be in the mid-1990s, it's far to say that Jamestown will likely act as a fueling stop before going to Mars. Maybe the International Space Station is located above the Moon instead of above the planet Earth.

 

[ajm8888]

What I wonder is how long before the private sector goes into space? With a moon base and lunar mining how long before companies try to set up lunar mining operations?

 

[Polish Eagle]

So, post-episode follow-up:

Spoiler

I guess that's another data-point in favor of this show really hating happy marriages--Tracy and Gordo make up and are immediately killed off. But seriously, it was at least a heroic way to go out.

Regarding the Pathfinder-Buran dogfight: my impression is that Ed blew up Sea Dragon to cut the knot. Lets the Soviets save face by not technically violating the blockade. Gonna guess NASA covers up the exact sequence of events going forward. Very atmospheric sequence of events on Pathfinder--Ed's course of action certainly took me by surprise.

Curious as to how this'll play out geopolitically--Reagan going to Moscow hat-in-hand after the Soviets storm an American moon base and kill, by my count, four American astronauts is a sign of weakness. A summit in a neutral country would have been more dignified. Can't see this going well for the Republicans in November, nor do I see the Soviets backing down in Panama permanently.

Sea Dragon built in Huntsville...eh. Jobs program I guess, or else they'd use a shipyard. Like Sea Dragon is supposed to. Not the only odd technical decision--why you would enrich plutonium on the Moon rather than just shipping it up in carefully-sealed containers is a mystery to me. And I've previously remarked on how little sense it makes for Saturn IB to still be feasible.

All in all, a compelling episode, at least in some of its plots, and entertaining to watch. But I have some issues with the episode and season as a whole:

Spoiler

99% of any space program obviously takes place on Earth, but I wish the earth-bound plots were more space-related. I'm rather more interested in the Soviets and peeking more behind the Iron Curtain, or looking at the various NASA contractors, or even details of the unmanned program, than in the breakdown of Ed's family. But I guess adultery can be shot on a lower budget than dudes in period-accurate Soviet uniforms looking at whatever the N-III rocket is supposed to be. Similarly, it's not that Kelly's character arc is poorly executed...I just don't tune in for the identity crisis of an adopted immigrant girl. Admittedly, I'm much more invested in Ellen than the other plots--maybe the acting talent is better?--so I don't mind hers so much. And since she is being set up as an important political figure in the program going forward, it doesn't feel as irrelevant.

Danielle's character arc is there, and reaches a satisfying conclusion here, but it's unevenly paced. We got a very slow burn of things with her early in the season, blowing up just now. It's not that they're incoherent or bad things, but she almost seems like an afterthought to this show sometimes.

I am really shocked that AIDS did not come up for Larry. It's not like I was cheering for him to die horribly--he's a fellow engineer, after all--but having a gay main character, married to a woman with Ronald Reagan's ear, in a show set in the 1980s that bills itself as socially conscious, and not mentioning it is, well...like that same show being borderline-silent about civil rights for African Americans in the 1960s, so I guess I shouldn't be too surprised.

All in all, I'll be back for season 3. It's one of the four shows per year I watch. But, if I were showrunner, this would be a very different program. But that's why I don't make the big bucks.

 

[tarrant77]

Who do you guys think the potential presidents are after Reagan up to 1995?

I can see Richard Schweiker winning in 1984, running on Reagan's coattails like Bush did in OTL. And just like Bush, losing the following election to a "New Democrat". Possibly Gary Hart, but I think Al Gore is more likely. Whoever it is, they will be in their second term when the next season starts.

 

[Michel Van]

About SeaDragon
is a proposal for launch of 1.2 million pound in low orbit
At very low cost around 275 million dollar
it's build from steel, in a shipyard, use biggest pressure feed engines ever conceived.

In series it used for
One - bring propellants into low orbit for Shuttle fleet
Two - bring supplies to Jamestown

Last is interesting because the SeaDragon second stage goes to moon
means the there less payload on those launches
( is unclear if second stage land on moon or rendezvous with LM in lunar orbit ?)
A SeaDragon bring around 50 metric tons into Lunar orbit

before someone complain that Saturn V does same
a Saturn V build & launch cost around 2 billion Dollars
here is SeaDragon is real bargain with build & launch cost of 275 million dollar

 

[Sunstone77]

Am I the only one who found Ellen a bit pointless this season?

I’m not sure if it’s the writing, the acting or both, but it feels like she’s just spent the entire season meekly and unenthusiastically following everyone else’s plans. You would have thought the Jamestown crisis would have been the perfect moment for her to step up and seize the initiative but no. The plot with her ex also felt like it just existed to cause pain and drama and make Ellen sad for no good reason.

I really cannot buy her being involved in politics like they seem to be trying to set up for next season unless she ends up as someone else’s puppet

 

[MaxGerke01]

As far as what Danielle did landing her in the doghouse what about Ed because doesnt destroying Sea Dragon radically change what the US had planned for the moon at least for the time being ? We still dont know what was in Sea Dragon but since there was a secret second nuclear reactor on the Moon should we take Reagan at his word that there were no weapons on Sea Dragon ?
There is a chance it could be Ellen who was elected in 1992 and is in the WH-with Larry in 1995. AIDS was just coming to be recognized in 1983 so just because we havent heard about it yet doesnt mean we wont -not to mention other civil rights and womens rights issues. Its possible that Reagans only Reagan could go to Russia moment was engineered to take the peace plank away from Hart or Carter or whomever the Democrats run to help his VP win in 1984.I think maybe that backfires and the hard right sit that election out and that ensures the Democrats win. The fact that so many Americans died on the moon compared to Russians would cause some serious nashing of teeth in some quarters.
As far as relations go with the US and Soviets in 1995 perhaps they arent as bad as we might think but there is no reason to think they will be as good as they were between the US and Russia in OTL 1995. Speaking of which there was also nuclear near miss in 1995 like in 1983-wonder if that is just a conincidence ? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norwegian_rocket_incident
RDM did seasons 1.5.2.5 and 3.5 with BSG-just little mini webisodes but it would be great if he did the same with FAM- a whole year is too long to wait...

 

[MaxGerke01]

Am I the only one who found Ellen a bit pointless this season?

I’m not sure if it’s the writing, the acting or both, but it feels like she’s just spent the entire season meekly and unenthusiastically following everyone else’s plans. You would have thought the Jamestown crisis would have been the perfect moment for her to step up and seize the initiative but no. The plot with her ex also felt like it just existed to cause pain and drama and make Ellen sad for no good reason.

I really cannot buy her being involved in politics like they seem to be trying to set up for next season unless she ends up as someone else’s puppet

I can see some of what you are saying but remember Ellen took a big risk by backing up Danielle. I also think that she does have a vision and it just so happens that it was also Toms vision.She is suffering from survivors guilt because she wasnt on that flight and she feels she owes it to Tom and herself and the world to be sure the US gets to Mars and if she was elected in 1992 she would be in the prefect position to ensure that happens. After Season One I coud have seen Margo or Ed or maybe even ,Molly , Gordo or Tracy making a play for the WH but at this point Ellen is the only one who makes sense-well Danielle is actually a possibility too because what she wants also aligns with a career in politics as well. All that being said its still my hope that they still stick with a real life OTL person for president in 1995. If its really running for 7 seasons there is time to go fictional later -like post 2020....

 

[ajm8888]

I can see some of what you are saying but remember Ellen took a big risk by backing up Danielle. I also think that she does have a vision and it just so happens that it was also Toms visions.She is suffering from survivors guilt because she wasnt on that flight and she feels she owes it to Tom and herself and the world to be sure the US gets to Mars and if she was elected in 1992 she would be in the prefect position to ensure that happens. After Season One I coud have seen Margo or Ed or maybe even ,Molly , Gordo or Tracy making a play for the WH but at this point Ellen is the only one who makes sense-well Danielle is actually a possibility too because what she wants also aligns with a career in politics as well. All that being said its still my hope that they still stick with a real life OTL person for president in 1995. If its really running for 7 seasons there is time to go fictional later -like post 2020....

If it is Hart post 1984 and he serves two terms who would succeed him?

 

[MaxGerke01]

If it is Hart post 1984 and he serves two terms who would succeed him?

Right thats something Im just not sure where they will go. If they are doing you know general public friendly flip side AH then a Republican or H Ross Perot would win in 1992 since Bill Clinton won in OTL.So if its a Republican who ? The conservative choices would be George HW Bush,Bob Dole,Jack Kemp or maybe Dan Quayle or Colin Powell ? But then again maybe after two terms of Hart we get an analog of George HW Bush winning a 3rd Reagan term in 1988 and its either Harts VP or a fictional character like Ellen Wilson ? I think its a really good chance its Hart or Jimmy Carter from 1985-1993 but as to who wins in 1992 and is there in 1994/1995 its pretty wide open which must be the way the bastard RDM wants it !

EDIT-I guess its also possible that a Republican-Reagans VP -gets 1 term from 1985-1989 and then who ever got elected in 1988 is still in office in their second term in 1994/95. This of course means a Democrat probably so looking at the 1988 field that could be Dukakis,Joe Biden,Al Gore,Jesse Jackson,Richard Gephardt,still Gary Hart-assuming no sex scandal and even Pat Schroeder also from Colorado-so yeah its all pretty wide open....

Edit II -in my personal headcannon I would love to see Pat Schroeder as VP under Hart although I know at that time it would be a stretch to have the President and VP from the same region much less the same state-but of course Clinton and Gore broke that taboo in 1992 so ittl it could happen 8 or 4 years earlier in 1984/1988. I would love that.

 

[MaxGerke01]

BTW its very interesting news that there was an award winning Star Trek Phase 2 ittl.Also despite this thread seeming to be replete with Trekkers I think it got past all of us that ttls Wrath of Khan came in in 1983 instead of 1982. RDM confirms it was the first Trek movie though. So I would love to see speculation about what Phase Two was like and an episode guide for it and what awards it won and the works. We need a seperate thread for that.

 

[wwbgdiaslt]

BTW its very interesting news that there was a an award winning Star Trek Phase 2 ittl.Aslo despite this trhead seeming to be replete with Trekkers I think it got past all of us that ttls Wrath of Khan came in in 1983 instead of 1982. RDM confims it was the first Trek movie though. So i would love to see speculation about what phase two was like and an episode guide for it and what awards it won and the works.We need a seperate thread for that.

It didn't get past us ...

Well, it does prove that even if Star Trek gets a sequel series as we hypothesized previously, that Wrath of Khan gets made - even if it is a year later than in IOTL - and Spock is still enough of a fixture for his death to be as much of an impact.

 

[Expat]

Maybe if they go with a more obscure but still OTL person as president going forward we’ll just have an actor play them. Plenty of actors playing real people so far. The deepfakes are cool but seem like a lot of work, and limit you in your choices. As the writers have eluded to in interviews, there’s not going to be a library of archived footage out there for most people.

Also, if Ellen is going to be in DC, she’s going to need to be acting with people. Archival footage and phone calls won’t cut it.

I feel like maybe back before this season someone mentioned Dani as a political candidate. If anything, she seems like an even more likely person for higher office than Ellen at this point. Catching a tank is...cool, but an emergent narrative that you stopped a nuclear war- one confirmed by Reagan himself- that is a spectacular springboard. Especially if Gordo’s death means the truth about her arm comes out, that’s more fuel to the hero fire.

Plus (and I love Ellen), Dani seems like she really can enter a room and get people to listen to her and like her. She demonstrates that many times throughout the series. Whereas with Ellen I kinda feel like we have the writers giving us a series of white dudes who tell Ellen she has this power and suddenly it’s just true. (Of course what white dudes believe carries a lot of political weight, um, let’s say “in the 80s,” given the forum we’re in.)

If we are setting this up for the long haul, I can see maybe Ellen and Dani duking it out on opposite sides of the aisle in the Capitol for a while. It’d be melodramatic to have them face off for the presidency in season 4 or 5...but then we are watching a tv show here.

 

[seraphim74]

IMO Ellen might have problems with having a public office because of her sexuality. The higher you go, you get under more scrutiny, from press and polical competition. I'm not sure her camouflage will work for very long under such conditions. If she comes out as a lesbian, she will be attacked as someone who lied to the public for many years. OTOH her case might be an important step for LGBT rights. She could be presented as a very competent person who had to hide her sexuality to serve her country and that she is a living proof that homosexual person can be both patriotic and good at their jobs.