An Imperial Match: Anne Boleyn marries Charles V

Marrying Anne Boleyn, a english noblewoman, compared to the richest and most illustrious princess in Europe is definitly something that should lower Charles standing with basically every royal power in Europe, piss of the Castilian and Aragonese courtes and make him and Spain much poorer compared to the sheer wealth and luxury Isabella brought to the marriage.

Just saying. it's a extremely bad match politically for someone with so many realms to rule.
 
Marrying Anne Boleyn, a english noblewoman, compared to the richest and most illustrious princess in Europe is definitly something that should lower Charles standing with basically every royal power in Europe, piss of the Castilian and Aragonese courtes and make him and Spain much poorer compared to the sheer wealth and luxury Isabella brought to the marriage.

Just saying. it's a extremely bad match politically for someone with so many realms to rule.
We've been there, but isn't the point of stories like these to ponder about what could have been if one decision had been made instead of another?
 
Marrying Anne Boleyn, a english noblewoman, compared to the richest and most illustrious princess in Europe is definitly something that should lower Charles standing with basically every royal power in Europe, piss of the Castilian and Aragonese courtes and make him and Spain much poorer compared to the sheer wealth and luxury Isabella brought to the marriage.

Just saying. it's a extremely bad match politically for someone with so many realms to rule.
Isabella of Portugal brought a rich dowry but I believe who the Cortes were already long resigned to Charles NOT marrying her. The list of engagements of Charles until now included only French and English princesses with his firm refusal to marry either Anne of Hungary or Isabella of Portugal.
 
Isabella of Portugal brought a rich dowry but I believe who the Cortes were already long resigned to Charles NOT marrying her. The list of engagements of Charles until now included only French and English princesses with his firm refusal to marry either Anne of Hungary or Isabella of Portugal.
But Charles is also a heir and ruler to many lands and duchies and empires and would be very aware of his own standing in Europe and should thus be made to realise that his own ambitions would be secured with a proper marriage. And why would Anne want to marry Charles anyway? The woman had no interest being queen of England, let alone empress of the HRE or queen of Spain, a country so far away and foreign to her own education and personality she would be misplaced and certainly be loathed as well.
 
But Charles is also a heir and ruler to many lands and duchies and empires and would be very aware of his own standing in Europe and should thus be made to realise that his own ambitions would be secured with a proper marriage. And why would Anne want to marry Charles anyway? The woman had no interest being queen of England, let alone empress of the HRE or queen of Spain, a country so far away and foreign to her own education and personality she would be misplaced and certainly be loathed as well.
I think pandizzy is suggesting that the two knew each other back in the Lowlands and that they were close, and that now with their reunion they fall in love? Besides there'll be less trouble for Catherine if Anne is out of England.
 
I think it's fun. It's a totally new idea, and I like the childhood friends angle. Really exited to see where it goes.
 
Considering who in OTL he had fallen in love with her at first sight is likely.


Exactly my point. Isabella was stunning and that was the only thing likely able to persuade the reluctant Charles who she was a better choice than the single digits aged French and English princesses to which he was engaged
Isabella was not chosen for being beautiful, she was chosen OTL for many reasons:

Charles needed quick heirs to bring into his land and Mary was very young, and the Habsburgs were not very numerous. Moreover, Charles was born and raised in the Netherlands, he was not much loved by the Spanish courts, an Iberian wife would enhance his popularity and stability in Spain. OTL Charles would delegate the government of Spain to his wife while he stayed in the Netherlands.

It brought an immense dowry, because at that time Portugal was the richest kingdom in Europe due to its monopoly on Indian and Persian trade due to its route that borders Africa (the Italians fell for the Ottomans, Portugal did not have that problem). And Spain needs that huge dowry, it has many wars and expenses.

Portugal was the only threat to Spain in the Atlantic Sea and America, and Spain needed to secure an alliance or peace with Portugal (marriage) in order to continue exploring the seas and colonizing lands without provoking a colonial confrontation with Portugal.

Charles had too many territories and a war with Portugal (perhaps because of colonial conflicts) was very undesirable. Portugal alone opens three war fronts to Spain, the continent, the Atlantic Sea and Colonies. Portugal with its fleet could be interrupting Spanish trade (if it wins the naval confrontation) with its colonies, and Spain without gold cannot hire mercenaries or finance wars in Italy, France or Germany.

Charles has as many territories as enemies, he needs allies and Portugal is the only available ally that is powerful. Portugal at that time was one of the strongest powers, it had a powerful fleet and wealth capable of giving it a great army (mercenaries). While Spain could be an ally of Savoy, Florence, Lorraine and Bavaria, they are only Secondary powers. The other great powers of the time were not good allies, the French and Ottomans hate Charles, Germany (minus Bavaria), England and Scandinavia are Protestant, Italy is a powder keg between France and Spain, Poland has enough problems of its own.

Only neutrality between both countries is beneficial for both (a marriage ensures it). Portugal only shares a border with Spain, a marriage makes Portugal's only continental threat an ally, allowing it to focus on colonial affairs in Persia or India. On the other hand, Charles prevented Portugal from being a dagger against Spain, after all Portugal could only go to war with Spain in Europe, the only country with which it shares colonial interests and borders.

The Flemings, and to a lesser extent the rest of the Netherlands, pressured Charles for marriage. They depended on the Portuguese spice trade and a marriage would ensure stable trade between the two regions. A hostile Portugal or that decides to trade elsewhere, can be horrible for the Netherlands (the richest region of Charles's territories) There is a reason why the Netherlands after independence took the Portuguese spice colonies, they were very dependent on Portugal and wanted to solve that weakness.
 
I mean, Charles isn't gonna marry Isabella in this timeline, so...

I don't wanna sound rude, but I think we all understand how awesome Isabella is and how Anne pales in regard.
 
3rd of June, 1522.
Greenwich, England. 3rd of June, 1522.

The clinking of the silverware and the careful steps of the maids around them were the only sounds filling the small antechamber of Queen Catherine as Her Majesty and her nephew dined together. It was a private dinner, without the ogling eyes of the courtiers, or the King’s presence, and there was a pleased smile on Catherine of Aragon’s face. It seemed clear how happy she was to have Charles there with her, since she loved him as if he were a son for her, in name as well as in her heart.

Her ladies-in-waiting fluttered over them, serving them wine and pieces of a cooked pheasant. Charles had brought some favored grooms with him to Germany and they serve him as well on his return to Spain, effortlessly moving around the English ladies. A high golden canopy hung over their heads, showcasing the high rank of the two, and a couple of musicians, a lute, and a flute player, were seated by the corner. They produced a piece of pleasant music to calm the mood and there was an air of familiarity and close kinship in the room, brought about by the relaxed atmosphere.

The only formality seemed to be emanating from the maids and the grooms. Serving the royals was a ceremony as well as a duty and to be given the privilege of even topping their cups with wine was a high honor. A position highly coveted amongst the Queen’s maids of honor. And so it made sense that Charles of Austria them a degree of attention, watching their pales faces for a sign of obedience, or boldness. Something that shows him who will rise higher from the others, something to pass the time.

They all curtsied to him, whispering, “Your Imperial Majesty,” as they served his aunt. There was a sense of sameness to them. They wore dresses of similar fabrics in tones of red, green, and blue. Over their heads, most wore gable hoods, a type of headdress common amongst the English ladies, that cover the entire hair and back of the neck with a thick black veil. It seemed to him that Catherine had the same woman serving her, only her personality was repeated tenfold, as they all looked and behaved the same way.

But there was one that stands out. Short, where others were tall. Svelte, where others were voluptuous. Dark, where others were light. She had clearly come from France, as seen by the style of her pink dress. The hood over her head, curved and bejeweled, showcased the front of her dark hair and he knew even without understanding this court that she would be both a scandal and a delight, depending on your views. She was either a newcomer or a longtime courtier. On her neck, there was a pearl necklace with a golden B hooked to three tear-shaped pearls. The lady had perfect poise and behavior, lowering her eyes as she filled his aunt’s cup with more wine and handed the Queen a cloth with a perfectly curved arm.

Charles adjusted his stance, trying to see her better. There was something familiar about her, despite the fact that he had just thought about her uniqueness. She had an olive complexion and her eyes were a shade of dark brown that seemed to draw him in. She looked at him for a second, her face perfectly visible and he saw a long nose, a soft chin, and round cheeks. To him, she was both an old acquaintance and a stranger. It was fascinating.

“Aunt,” said Charles when she stepped away, low enough that she would not hear him, “Who is that lady? The one with the pink dress.” Catherine of Aragon twisted her lips. She thought he was lusting after her lady, the lovely Anne Boleyn, who was religious and clever. She did not like that. Although she loved her nephew, Catherine would be lying if she said she didn’t know about the bastards he had in Burgundy. Men were all the same, “She seems familiar, that is all.”

Catherine sighed, “She is Mistress Boleyn. Anne Boleyn,” The Queen forced herself to smooth down her lips. Charles had only asked an honest question. There was no reason to be upset, “She served under your aunt, Margaret, for some months in 1513, when she was just ten years old. I believe you must have met her then, did you not?”

“Yes, that is right,” Charles said. He remembered her now. La petite Boulin, his aunt called her. He didn’t see her much, only once or twice a month, when he visited the Dowager Duchess and paid his respects to her as a loving son. Margaret called her pleasant and well-spoken. She was very upset when Anne moved to France in 1514.

The last letter they had received from her was when she was still living at the court of Francis. She was to marry the heir to an earldom to settle a minor dispute over the inheritance, something that much pleased his aunt. It had been many years since that announcement, however. Could the marriage have gone ahead already? Because of her small frame, she seemed younger than what must have been nineteen years of age, and some men enjoyed waiting for wives to mature before they were thrust into an endless cycle of pregnancies and labor. For some reason he could not understand, Charles almost wished she was not yet a Countess. For her health, of course.

He knew Margaret of Austria would enjoy having more news of her delightful former ward, though, and would be pleased if he took any information about Anna when he returned to Flanders. That is what he tells himself when he decides to seek her out later.
 
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Wouldn't the Hapsburg house law prevent a marriage between Charles V and Anne Boleyn or at least mandate it to be morganatic? She's after all neither from a royal nor a ruling ducal family. Wouldn't she thus face the same kind of obstacles that Sophie Chotek still had to go through even in a much more enlightened age?
 
For some reason he could not understand, Charles almost wished she was not yet a Countess. For her health, of course.
Ahhh, cute interaction! Really excited to see where this goes.

Also, if Charles loses some influence due to marrying Anne, it could give Joanna a chance to assert some influence. Maybe get out of confinement? She could fill the role Isabella did OTL.
 
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Isabella was not chosen for being beautiful, she was chosen OTL for many reasons:

Charles needed quick heirs to bring into his land and Mary was very young, and the Habsburgs were not very numerous. Moreover, Charles was born and raised in the Netherlands, he was not much loved by the Spanish courts, an Iberian wife would enhance his popularity and stability in Spain. OTL Charles would delegate the government of Spain to his wife while he stayed in the Netherlands.

It brought an immense dowry, because at that time Portugal was the richest kingdom in Europe due to its monopoly on Indian and Persian trade due to its route that borders Africa (the Italians fell for the Ottomans, Portugal did not have that problem). And Spain needs that huge dowry, it has many wars and expenses.

Portugal was the only threat to Spain in the Atlantic Sea and America, and Spain needed to secure an alliance or peace with Portugal (marriage) in order to continue exploring the seas and colonizing lands without provoking a colonial confrontation with Portugal.

Charles had too many territories and a war with Portugal (perhaps because of colonial conflicts) was very undesirable. Portugal alone opens three war fronts to Spain, the continent, the Atlantic Sea and Colonies. Portugal with its fleet could be interrupting Spanish trade (if it wins the naval confrontation) with its colonies, and Spain without gold cannot hire mercenaries or finance wars in Italy, France or Germany.

Charles has as many territories as enemies, he needs allies and Portugal is the only available ally that is powerful. Portugal at that time was one of the strongest powers, it had a powerful fleet and wealth capable of giving it a great army (mercenaries). While Spain could be an ally of Savoy, Florence, Lorraine and Bavaria, they are only Secondary powers. The other great powers of the time were not good allies, the French and Ottomans hate Charles, Germany (minus Bavaria), England and Scandinavia are Protestant, Italy is a powder keg between France and Spain, Poland has enough problems of its own.

Only neutrality between both countries is beneficial for both (a marriage ensures it). Portugal only shares a border with Spain, a marriage makes Portugal's only continental threat an ally, allowing it to focus on colonial affairs in Persia or India. On the other hand, Charles prevented Portugal from being a dagger against Spain, after all Portugal could only go to war with Spain in Europe, the only country with which it shares colonial interests and borders.

The Flemings, and to a lesser extent the rest of the Netherlands, pressured Charles for marriage. They depended on the Portuguese spice trade and a marriage would ensure stable trade between the two regions. A hostile Portugal or that decides to trade elsewhere, can be horrible for the Netherlands (the richest region of Charles's territories) There is a reason why the Netherlands after independence took the Portuguese spice colonies, they were very dependent on Portugal and wanted to solve that weakness.
Still Charles REFUTED MORE THAN ONCE TO MARRY ISABELLA before resigning to the match in 1526. In 1518 he choose to marry his eldest sister to the widowed Manuel (who was quite old and with a lot of sons) for keeping Portugal friendly after refuting Isabella as wife.
A wedding in Portugal was NOT in the Burgundian interest or Charles would NOT have spent so much time trying to get a French or English bride.
Isabella was already 23 years old at their wedding meaning who if she had not so be determined in marrying “Charles or nobody/Christ” she would be already long married to someone else.
Charles was NOT interested in marrying Isabella, and the pressure of his Spanish advisors and Cortes. Considering who, once resigning to marry her, he fell in love with her a first sight, so maybe if her father arranged a meeting her look would persuade Charles to marry her (as he will not do it yet for politics).
Also your historical contest is NOT good: we are in the middle of 1520s when Charles married Isabella in OTL meaning who your count of Protestant lands is useless as England was still firmly Catholic, and in 1522-1524 Protestant lands do NOT existed yet.
Also the actual King of Portugal was Charles‘ first cousin and still unmarried and Charles has still an available younger sister to marry to him if needed so he can keep Portugal allied without marrying Isabella.
 
Wouldn't the Hapsburg house law prevent a marriage between Charles V and Anne Boleyn or at least mandate it to be morganatic? She's after all neither from a royal nor a ruling ducal family. Wouldn't she thus face the same kind of obstacles that Sophie Chotek still had to go through even in a much more enlightened age?
Not really. In Charles V‘s times the Emperor can still raise any not-Hochadel wedding (meaning outside the higher, ruling, class of nobility) as one, also the wedding of his nephew Ferdinand to a woman of lower rank than Anne was more a secret marriage than a morganatic one (while their children were excluded by direct succession and given the Margravate of Burgau, they had still the of Austria surname and would be entitled to inheritance if the Habsburg male line totally died). In any case the only Habsburg lands who can be inherited only to someone born from an Hochadel wedding are the Austrian lands who at this point already belong to Ferdinand, while Charles‘ own possessions (Burgundy and Spain) are freely inheritable by children of both sex from a legitimate wedding
 
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Looks like we're getting into the crust of what's going to happen! Great update too! Can't wait to see how this develops.
 
Ahhh, cute interaction! Really excited to see where this goes.

Also, if Charles loses some influence due to marrying Anne, it could give Joanna a chance to assert some influence. Maybe get out of confinement? She could fill the role Isabella did OTL.
At this point, I think Joanna has gone truly mad from years of confinement. She thought the nuns that took care of her were assassins and refused to bathe, eat or sleep. When her daughter Catherine was taken away from her when Charles came to Spain, she had a reaction that Charles was forced to return his sister, lest his mother kill himself.

She's well beyond true queenship.
 
At this point, I think Joanna has gone truly mad from years of confinement. She thought the nuns that took care of her were assassins and refused to bathe, eat or sleep. When her daughter Catherine was taken away from her when Charles came to Spain, she had a reaction that Charles was forced to return his sister, lest his mother kill himself.

She's well beyond true queenship.
She likely had a borderline mental constitution from the very beginning and the death of her husband finally pushed her over the edge. Having his embalmed corpse carried to whereever she went for a protracted period of time was definately not a sign of good mental health.
 
At this point, I think Joanna has gone truly mad from years of confinement. She thought the nuns that took care of her were assassins and refused to bathe, eat or sleep. When her daughter Catherine was taken away from her when Charles came to Spain, she had a reaction that Charles was forced to return his sister, lest his mother kill himself.

She's well beyond true queenship.
Likely these reports were exaggerated. Juana was still able to reason well during the revolt of the Comuneros as demonstrated by her actions there.
Still she was captive and her imprisonment was an harsh one.

She likely had a borderline mental constitution from the very beginning and the death of her husband finally pushed her over the edge. Having his embalmed corpse carried to whereever she went for a protracted period of time was definately not a sign of good mental health.
If you believe myths. Juana was tormented by her mother and husband for long time. Also Juana was five months pregnant when Philip died, and many believed who Ferdinand had poisoned him. In any case Juana was unable to take personal control of her kingdom, and likely feared who Philip’s death would NOT be enough for his many enemies in Castile, so she was keeping her carrying his coffin with her court waiting for the moment in which she would be able to safely bury him (is entirely possible who Joanna’s fears were exaggerated as her mother and husband‘s mental abuses had left their signs on her and the pregnancy likely made her fears bigger)
 
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