Map Thread XX

[Prince di Corsica]

You have a typo on 6.
You said that "the drive of humans to create is fully celebrated and encouraged in Oceania"
I am pretty sure you meany Eurasia

Of course I do. Thanks for pointing it out. I'll try to get time to fix it, but it probably won't be anytime soon, I'm afraid.

Now I wonder why before no one has come up with such an interpretation of 1984 world? Hmm, maybe because very few people can imagine the Soviets as "good guys".

I'll admit I haven't found a secret-utopia Eurasia interpretation. I won't say it doesn't exist, but it might be precisely because its origins don't really add up to a happy ending (Soviet Union enveloping Europe after WW2) and because it is kind of at odds with the whole Orwellian world concept.

This is awesome, very great presentation, I'm jealous (I also was working on a map with nearly the same projection and style but it probably would have been much less interesting in term of scenario) , I imagine these being distributed on the beaches of normandy by volunteers lol, great interpretation of 1984's eurasia

When I pictured these, I imagined in a very sterile office, like as sterile as a dentist, but for asylum recipients, but I also like this idea at the beaches of Normandy.

“Defend our values” has me skeptical that this is a utopia. Maybe it’s just Oceania in woke paint; in being intolerant of intolerance (which is a good idea tbf) they commit similar atrocities as their rivals. The “never been at war with Oceania” part is also suspicious to me—who’s to say that they won’t change that in the future, like how alliances retroactively change in Oceania?

Or maybe I’m so utterly without faith and hope in humanity that I just can’t believe that true goodness can exist on a large scale.

I don’t know.

Oh don't worry, I did my best to ensure that this conflict would be prevalent (call it doublethought-inducing), to add a layer to the mystery. It might be that not everything is roses, it might be that it's just cultural divergence that makes the language sound off.

 

[Halocon]

Also, “national republics”? Considering how few there are—no Saami republic, or Basque, or Bashkir, etc—I have a feeling that a lot of people have been erased—physically or culturally—by Eurasia.

 

[Dragorun]

I'll admit I haven't found a secret-utopia Eurasia interpretation. I won't say it doesn't exist, but it might be precisely because its origins don't really add up to a happy ending (Soviet Union enveloping Europe after WW2) and because it is kind of at odds with the whole Orwellian world concept.

It doesn't even have to be a utopia, just a normal sane state that hasn't thrown into trash can such a thing as common sense. Although, for any citizen of Oceania from 1984, even that will be perceived as a real utopia.

 

[Analytical Engine]

Also, “national republics”? Considering how few there are—no Saami republic, or Basque, or Bashkir, etc—I have a feeling that a lot of people have been erased—physically or culturally—by Eurasia.

Maybe these are the equivalent of SSRs, whilst the Saami, Basque etc. are ASSRs. Plus, the map doesn't show an awful lot of Russia, so there may be a whole lot of others.

 

[Dragorun]

Also, “national republics”? Considering how few there are—no Saami republic, or Basque, or Bashkir, etc—I have a feeling that a lot of people have been erased—physically or culturally—by Eurasia.

The borders of the republics on this map are obviously a cross between pre-war and post-war in Europe. And nothing prevents these "National Republics" from having, say, "Autonomous Regions".

 

[Ephraim Ben Raphael]

Crossposting from the MotM contest

Anyway, hope people enjoy this setting just as much as I enjoyed doing it!

That is a beautiful map, and I love the subtle mindscrew of trying to figure out how accurate the government propaganda is.

 

[Prince di Corsica]

Also, “national republics”? Considering how few there are—no Saami republic, or Basque, or Bashkir, etc—I have a feeling that a lot of people have been erased—physically or culturally—by Eurasia.

As others have pointed out, there's probably room for those in autonomous regions. I thought about doing another page that described each Republic and that would have shown that at least Spain, Russia and Germany have a federal character into them. Which would probably be sensible - I don't know how workable a Saami state would be.

It doesn't even have to be a utopia, just a normal sane state that hasn't thrown into trash can such a thing as common sense. Although, for any citizen of Oceania from 1984, even that will be perceived as a real utopia.

This actually started with an idea I had of Eurasia, by contrast with Oceania, celebrating its multilingual character, like the Soviet Union did and the European Union does today, which would be sensible since a Soviet Union envelops Europe State has much less of a natural predominant language than a United States absorbs the British Empire State dominated by "English Socialists". Which again, doesn't mean it's all roses either.

 

[BrobDingnag]

I like the image if for no other reason than almost everything listed there COULD be true, and to an Oceanian it would really seem like a paradise and freedom even if Eurasia had its own version of totalitarianism which barely overlapped with Oceania’s. The fun is coming up with a thought experiment for a totalitarian ideology that operated wholly unlike Oceania’s (and then trying to think of a third for Eastasia).

 

[Bomster]

Now I wonder why before no one has come up with such an interpretation of 1984 world? Hmm, maybe because very few people can imagine the Soviets as "good guys".

Making the Soviets the “good guys” is an interesting subject in and of itself.

 

[Thanksforallthefish]

I like the image if for no other reason than almost everything listed there COULD be true, and to an Oceanian it would really seem like a paradise and freedom even if Eurasia had its own version of totalitarianism which barely overlapped with Oceania’s. The fun is coming up with a thought experiment for a totalitarian ideology that operated wholly unlike Oceania’s (and then trying to think of a third for Eastasia).

In 1984 it's called "Anhilation of the self"... perhaps a Buddhist/Taoist synthesis where all Eastasians live in absolute harmony with themselves, others and nature. An extensive monastic, pacifist state where nobody wants for anything... in both senses of the term... all material needs are satisfied, but there's no need for any luxuries or ambitions either, beyond serving Eastasia for the benefit of the rest of the world.

Of course, that's what THEY tell you.

"Learn to overcome the crass demands of flesh and bone, for they warp the matrix through which we perceive the world. Extend your awareness outward, beyond the self of body, to embrace the self of group and the self of humanity..."

Great stuff by the way @Prince di Corsica.

 

[DrakonFin]

As others have pointed out, there's probably room for those in autonomous regions. I thought about doing another page that described each Republic and that would have shown that at least Spain, Russia and Germany have a federal character into them. Which would probably be sensible - I don't know how workable a Saami state would be.

A Saami state would not really be viable, IMO. It is hard to see a realistic TL in the 1984 mold to have a total Saami population much bigger than 150 000 people. This is not a number you could comfortably base a state on. Especially as the Saami are spread out in such a comparatively huge area. There is no significant part of Norway, Sweden, Finland or Russia where the Saami are a majority. The biggest Saami majority areas amount to a few municipalities in Norway, AFAIK. You could create a Saami state in name, but to have it be an economically viable unit you'd likely need it to be 60%+ non-Saami by ethnicity. Taking a more dystopic view, you could create it by major population transfers, too, concentrating the Saami from all around Lapland, Finnmark and Kola in a certain area and removing other ethnicities, but that would cause major social, economic and political disruption up north, and would likely create a wholly artificial state that needs to be constantly and indefinitely propped up economically by someone, perhaps the other national republic/republics in the area (this maybe understood as a program of "reparation payments" to the Saami for historical oppression,etc).

 

[xmoose]

Making the Soviets the “good guys” is an interesting subject in and of itself.

Almost as interesting as making the nazis "good guys"...
did it someone before (aside of some neo-nazi nuts)?

 

[Gokbay]

Almost as interesting as making the nazis "good guys"...
did it someone before (aside of some neo-nazi nuts)?

I would say making the Soviets "good guys" is much easier than making the Nazis "good guys".

In fact, I believe the only way to achieve the latter would be a) by comparison or b) Nazis in name only.
With Soviets, showing good/idealised communism should be enough.

 

[Jürgen]

A Saami state would not really be viable, IMO. It is hard to see a realistic TL in the 1984 mold to have a total Saami population much bigger than 150 000 people. This is not a number you could comfortably base a state on. Especially as the Saami are spread out in such a comparatively huge area. There is no significant part of Norway, Sweden, Finland or Russia where the Saami are a majority. The biggest Saami majority areas amount to a few municipalities in Norway, AFAIK. You could create a Saami state in name, but to have it be an economically viable unit you'd likely need it to be 60%+ non-Saami by ethnicity. Taking a more dystopic view, you could create it by major population transfers, too, concentrating the Saami from all around Lapland, Finnmark and Kola in a certain area and removing other ethnicities, but that would cause major social, economic and political disruption up north, and would likely create a wholly artificial state that needs to be constantly and indefinitely propped up economically by someone, perhaps the other national republic/republics in the area (this maybe understood as a program of "reparation payments" to the Saami for historical oppression,etc).

I think you 60%+ non-Saami is very optimistic, in most map of Saami states Saami is only something like the 4th or 5th largest ethnic group in such a state. I don’t think Saami have been in majority in Lapland/Finnmarken since the Viking Age or even the Germanic Iron Age.

 

[DrakonFin]

I think you 60%+ non-Saami is very optimistic, in most map of Saami states Saami is only something like the 4th or 5th largest ethnic group in such a state. I don’t think Saami have been in majority in Lapland/Finnmarken since the Viking Age or even the Germanic Iron Age.

That's why I put the "+" in there, to note the range from 60% to, say 97%. It would be highly optimistic to get 40% Saami. But purely theoretically, it might be possible if you build a small state centered on the province of Finnmark, which AFAIK is up to 25% Saami. Use the arcane magic of gerrymandering to exclude the most heavily non-Saami settlements, include some Norwegian, Finnish and Swedish municipalities (or parts) with more Saami, and then in different ways incentivize Saami immigration from the rest of the north. Even if unlikely, getting 40% Saami here would not be impossible. The resulting polity would of course have a very small population, maybe not reaching 100 000.

 

[SnivyLink]

so i found out i could make fantasy maps by taking screenshots of regions in google earth, splicing them together, and outlining them

 

[xsampa]

In the 1984 mode, a United States of Africa organized by language should be interesting
The following states:

• Akan State
• Mooré State [Burkina Faso]
• Harshen State [the Hausa Area]
• Amariñña State [Amharia]
• Masriya State [Egypt]
• Tamazgha State [North Africa]
  
  And more
  

 

[Wendell]

In the 1984 mode, a United States of Africa organized by language should be interesting
The following states:

• Akan State
• Mooré State [Burkina Faso]
• Harshen State [the Hausa Area]
• Amariñña State [Amharia]
• Masriya State [Egypt]
• Tamazgha State [North Africa]
  
  And more

Presumably the Amharic sate would be a Habasha state with other Ethioposemitic peoples.

 

[Karolus Rex]

Not much to say, just a silly map idea I had for a more long lived Domain of Syagrius.

 

[DracoLazarus]

Not much to say, just a silly map idea I had for a more long lived Domain of Syagrius.

So they conquered the core Frankish foedum of Toxandria (Brabant) ? Clovis must have gone through one hell of a defeat.