Of lost monkeys and broken vehicles

formion

Banned
The Turkish army had retained its cohesion, but it had lost over a third of his strength, nearly 25,000 men.
What kind of casualties are these 25,000 men? If I guess right, deserters are not included.

To quote from "The Ottoman Mobilization of Manpower in the First World War":

Moreover, while the number of deserters in the Western Front zone (namely the Aegean region) was 30,809 in June 1921, it was reduced to 4,400 in the month of August of the same year—a remarkable feat. Only between August and September 1921, more than 12,000 deserters were caught in central Anatolia (the zone of the Central Army) and they were transferred to the Western Front during the National Struggle.

It seems also that even in the victorious OTL battle of Sakarya there were 13,600 deserters of we add wiki's figures for deserters and missing. After all how do you end up missing a bit more than 8% of your manpower after a victorious battle in the very core of your territory?

What is left of the Kemalist army ?
 
It seems also that even in the victorious OTL battle of Sakarya there were 13,600 deserters of we add wiki's figures for deserters and missing. After all how do you end up missing a bit more than 8% of your manpower after a victorious battle in the very core of your territory?

What is left of the Kemalist army ?

The missing more often than not were not deserters. They'd be either prisoners of war or just as often killed in action unaccounted/unconfirmed. If a 6 in shell lands on top of you for example not enough is left to identify you afterwards...

What's left of the Kemalist army TTL? As of the end of the battle of Sakarya:

Western front: 44,836 men (1, 5, 7, 9, 11, 23, 24, 41, 57, 61 infantry divisions, 3, 9, 15 Caucasus infantry divisions, 3, 4, 14 cavalry divisions. 4th cavalry is a TTL one from 4 cav bde)
East front: 9,811 men (11th and 12th Caucasus infantry divisions)
Central front: 4,020 men (2nd infantry division, 13th & 27th cavalry brigades)

This is not counting irregulars and continuing recruitment of course.
 
So in the Western Front the Greeks have a number advantage of at least 3:1. That makes it very hard for the Turks to retake Ankara unless the Greeks fall back due to supply issues. You didn't mention the irregulars though and many of them were horsemen who's job was the destruction of Greek supply lines and OTL they did that very good and I guess they do a comparable job ITTL as well although the Greeks have more cavalry to counter that. I would like to learn more about those irregulars cause they were not a threat for the main army but for the supplies. Really how many do you think they were ITTL?

Also the main army needs to be reduced due to large costs cause if they use all the loans they will have a problem after the war ,and with hindsight the 1929 crash approaching things are not looking good for a hugely in-debt Greek economy.
 

formion

Banned
Also the main army needs to be reduced due to large costs cause if they use all the loans they will have a problem after the war ,and with hindsight the 1929 crash approaching things are not looking good for a hugely in-debt Greek economy.

Well, I think in OTL there was greater debt. Moreover, the post-war Greece will have hugely increased its exports of cash crops from Smyrna, while the imports would be lower as Thrace can provide a significant percentage of the grain that had to imported in OTL. I had calculated the potential increase of exports in a greek victory senario, but it was some time ago. If I remember correctly I had calculated an increase of more than 50%.
 
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So in the Western Front the Greeks have a number advantage of at least 3:1. That makes it very hard for the Turks to retake Ankara unless the Greeks fall back due to supply issues. You didn't mention the irregulars though and many of them were horsemen who's job was the destruction of Greek supply lines and OTL they did that very good and I guess they do a comparable job ITTL as well although the Greeks have more cavalry to counter that. I would like to learn more about those irregulars cause they were not a threat for the main army but for the supplies. Really how many do you think they were ITTL?

Also the main army needs to be reduced due to large costs cause if they use all the loans they will have a problem after the war ,and with hindsight the 1929 crash approaching things are not looking good for a hugely in-debt Greek economy.

How many irregulars there were? Not certain. Both the Turkish and English Wikipedia articles have Kuva-i Milliye peaking at about 15,000 men against the Greeks in 1920. The Greek army did estimate 8750 irregulars with the Turkish army during the 1921 summer offensive which to me looks reasonable if we also take into account that Ethem's "mobile force" which had switched sides to the Greeks was 3,400 men.

Economically wise Greece is way better off TTL, while in total size their army isn't that different from OTL. They have mobilized 359,000 men as opposed to 328,000 in OTL. The difference is more on troops utilization with far fewer men left in mainland Greece. Hence I wouldn't be overly concerned over their ability to fund the war... well into 1923 if necessary.
 

formion

Banned
I would add that Greece had also a working economy, even under the strain of mobilizatipn and war.

The Smyrna region in 1921 during the war, exported goods valued at $12,813,913. In the first 8 months of 1922, its exports were $10,515,434. If we take into account that there was an actual fron in Asia Minor, with the railroads and ports prioritizing army needs and with roaming bands of irregulars and brigands in the countryside, I find these exports impressive. Not to mention that a significant part of the young male population volunteered in the greek army or worked as laborers for the military.

 
I had in mind the extra debt from the war bonds and only that really cause in OTL those were frozen and weren't used so that is some extra debt with which of course the Greeks can keep fighting for far longer than OTL. As for the after war economy it will depend on the population exchanges really.

For the irregulars I had a way bigger number in mind so that isn't the threat that will doom the campaign on its own. Thanks for the info!
 
I had in mind the extra debt from the war bonds and only that really cause in OTL those were frozen and weren't used so that is some extra debt with which of course the Greeks can keep fighting for far longer than OTL. As for the after war economy it will depend on the population exchanges really.

For the irregulars I had a way bigger number in mind so that isn't the threat that will doom the campaign on its own. Thanks for the info!

One particularly important effect of the war bonds was that they were used as cover for Greece issuing banknotes. So when they were frozen... oops here goes part of the gold cover for the drachma. With it the exchange rate skydives. Then come 1922 Protopapadakis does his forced loan cutting the drachma literally in half to keep the war effort financed. The effects of both are directly visible in the exchange rate between the drachma and the pound which for example in 1922 increases by 236% closely resembling the forced loan effects. Now the drachma exchange rate was also affected by the military defeat in Asia Minor and the refugee influx resulting from it obviously and was going to slip at least to an extend if for no other reason do to the British deflationary policy, the value of the pound went up 40% between 1920 and 1924, but keeping the exchange rate from going up by... 869% up to 1923 by having available the war bonds and avoiding the 1922 forced loans would have drastic effects all by itself as can be seen in the table below for OTL GDP. Just assume that the exchange rate between drachma and pound goes down "only" four times by 1923. Greek nominal GDP has just more than doubled...


YearNominal GDP in drachmasExchange rate drachma to poundNominal GDP in poundsGDP in constant 1914 drachmas
1918​
4.196.152.017
24,8​
169.199.678
1.373.319.832​
1919​
3.789.749.966
24,3​
155.956.789
1.129.857.920​
1920​
5.361.536.871
34,1​
157.229.820
1.410.411.674​
1921​
6.821.748.101
70,4​
96.899.831
1.439.035.678​
1922​
10.780.134.536
166,5​
64.745.553
1.471.597.490​
1923​
16.558.597.496
296,4​
55.865.714
1.309.372.894​
1924​
20.718.344.368
247,4​
83.744.318
1.484.058.299​
1925​
23.992.285.292
312,6​
76.750.753
1.590.990.095​
 
Part 11 Anatolian aftershocks
Dersim, June 17th, 1921

The last Kurdish rebels were dispersed by Turkish cavalry. The Kocgiri rebellion was over.

Afyon, June 6th, 1921 (old calendar)/ June 19th, 1921 (new calendar)

The Greek A Corps had been pulled back from Ankara as soon as the city fell to the Greeks. Now after a brief respite to recuperate it was gain on the move, this time along the other branch of the railway that led to Konya. It was a decision taken against Venizelos better judgement as he justly feared the Greek army overextending itself. But the capture of Konya would also offer some serious advantages at relatively limited cost. With the Greek army having to hold Ankara anyway it would have to deal with a nominal front of about 1000 km. Taking Konya would increase it to something in the order of 1100 km but at the same time have it run over more defensible or inhospitable ground, some of it could anchored on Lake Tuz for example and remove the threat to the flank of the Greek army at Ankara from Konya's direction. Loss of Konya would further cut off the Baghdad railway, the last under the nationalists control and cut the supply routes to Antalya from where most Italian military aid was coming. The political considerations were not any less important. Konya had been a hotbed of pro-Sultan activity which had rebelled against the nationalists as late as October 1920. Following the rebellion its leader Delibas Mehmet had escaped to the Greek zone. With Greek and British support a Konya revolt could start again. If one also considered that taking Konya could be done on the cheap after the defeats of the Turkish army and the retreat of the bulk of Turkish Western front forces towards Sivas...

Moscow, June 24th, 1921

Ali Fuat had been sent to Moscow both to handle the crucial mission of securing Soviet support and to remove him from Ankara. So far his mission had been a support with the Soviets conceding formerly Russian Kars oblast to the nationalists in the treaty of Moscow signed by him in March and aiding Ankara with both gold and arms. Hence the message foreign commissar Georgy Chicherin had delivered today had been a cold shower. Chicherin on the pretext of the Turkish capture of Batum and the bloody fighting with the Georgian army that had resulted from it had informed the Turk that the Soviet Union could not accept the treaty of Moscow any more, nor overlook popular sentiment in the area to remain with the Soviets, if the Russian found ironic to declare the remnants of the Georgian national army, pro-Soviet local peasantry he had not shown it. The gist of the message was simple. The Soviet Union demanded the restoration of the 1914 border between the two countries. Otherwise its military and economic aid would stop and the Soviet army restore the border if need be by force. At least the Soviet army in the Caucasus was tied down at the moment fighting Armenian rebels. Ali Fuat could not avoid reflecting at the irony that said Armenian rebels were now inadvertently shielding the Turkish position in the east, as he asked for time to consult with the Grand National assembly at Sivas over the Soviet demands.

Konya June 17th, 1921 (old calendar)/ June 30th (new calendar)

Advance elements of the Greek army entered the city, the only opposition their advance had faced was scattered bands of irregulars. On their wake came a concerted effort backed by British money to regain support for the Constantinople government over that of Sivas. Results were mixed. It was difficult to believe the Greek infidels were really protecting the caliph no matter gold and proclamations. Still the effort was made as Delibas Mehmet returned to Konya on the coattails of the Greeks. In Constantinople the option of Damat Ferid pasha becoming again grand vizier was increasingly gaining ground as it was hoped this would gain British support.

Eastern Anatolia, July 1st, 1921

It was true that the Soviet 11th Army was tied down by the Armenians at the moment. But the Soviet Union had also other means to put pressure on Mustafa Kemal. Such as the person that was now allowed to cross the border back to Turkey with his followers. As soon as the telegrams announcing his return reached Sivas, 40 members of the grand national assembly declared for him. Enver pasha was back...
 
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formion

Banned
Enver pasha was back...
What a turn of events! And a devious move by Lenin. It seems also that the incompetent Enver continues to have a decent following.

As I see it, capturing Konya has four strategic and one economic implications:

- The Kemalists are cut off from Antalya and the italian supplies.

- The Kemalists have lost a populous vilayet and the historic capital of the Seljuk Sultanate. Kemal has been a dealt a personal blow and it is bound to affect morale.

- The Greek Army occupies a good defensible position - as Prof. Travlos would agree in his video, while enjoying railroad support. Irregular and bandit attacks may be an issue but I don't think they could compromise the current defensive position.

- The Italians in Antalya and Mendeshe are behind the frontline, so they can do as they please with their new territories. Likewise, the French in Adana are much less exposed now, so they can negotiate from a position of strength, even though they don't have the political will for war.

- Konya and Isparta are in greek hands. The greek minorities of these cities had a great tradition in carpet-weaving. Many industries were developed by greek entrepreneurs. Some of them in OTL had the foresight to send some capital abroad and after the population exchange set up new factories in Greece. However, their moveable wealth and machinery was left behind. Now, when eventually the Greek Army vacates Isparta and Konya, the factory machinery can be moved west with the railroad. Smyrna gets brand new factory equipment and becomes undoubtely the biggest carpet manufacturer in the eastern Mediterranean, while the turkish state doesn't get new factories (most of them were developed just before WW1) for free.
 
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Watched. Looking forward to seeing what comes of this.

Given that the Greek Army is already in central Anatolia, one wonders if any action from Cappadocian and Karamanlide partisans in their support is forthcoming?
 
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formion

Banned
Watched. Looking forward to seeing what comes of this.

Given that the Greek Army is already in central Anatolia, one wonders if any action from Cappadocian and Karamanlide partisans in their support is forthcoming?
I doubt it... Cappadocian Greeks and Karamanlides were not martial at all. They were pretty peaceful populations and constituted very small minorities in Central Anatolia.

@Lascaris did butterflies from the spring 1921 successful offensive influenced the deportation and liquidation of the Pisidian Greek male population (14-65 y.o.)? I think in OTL there were deported in May 14th 1921.
 
Watched. Looking forward to seeing what comes of this.

Given that the Greek Army is already in central Anatolia, one wonders if any action from Cappadocian and Karamanlide partisans in their support is forthcoming?

Likely not. The only serious resistance movement in Anatolia (from the Greek point of view obviously) was the Pontic Greeks which amounted to maybe 5-7,000 guerillas overall. Anywhere else? Not really. In Western Anatolia it was easier to just move over to Greece, in the interior the Greek populations were a minority.
 
Part 12 Of Enver and other demons
Sivas, July 9th, 1921

For a man that had no compunctions about the lives of his own men, never-mind the hundreds of thousands of Armenians massacred at his orders, it was not odd that he would not spare the lives of a few horses to get to Sivas as early as he could. Enver had reached Sivas two days before. Now he was in front of a full session of the grand national assembly. If Lenin had hoped that Enver would support the Soviet proposals to return Kars to their control in exchange of continued Soviet military aid he was going to be sadly disappointed. Enver was as gripped as ever by pan-Turanist notions. Now that he was out of Soviet control he proposed to the assembly's general applause to reject the proposals out of hand as contrary to national pact. Kemal had to grit his teeth and join in the applause. It was not that he disagreed with the sentiment of Enver's words, he would not had started a war against the whole Entente no matter the odds if he was. But the timing... didn't the idiot at the podium understand that with the Greeks in Konya the Soviets were the last source of supply to the national movement? But what was done was done. Hopefully Ali Fuat would manage to delay the rift with the Soviets as much as possible.

Armenia, July 13th, 1921

The republic of mountainous Armenia was already on the verge of surrendering to the Soviets. But now the Soviets could offer the Armenians not just the knut but a carrot as well in the form of at least regaining Kars and retaining Nagorno Karabakh. The republic surrendered. Many of the rebel troops quietly joined their former opponents in the 11th Red army without many questions asked in anticipation of the coming operations west. By the 14th already the first elements of the Soviet army were on the move towards the Soviet border. Garegin Nzhdeh the leader of the republic would exile himself to Bulgaria.

Sivas, July 16th, 1921

Enver had hoped that as soon as he was back the Grand National Assembly would be replacing Kemal with him. These hopes were dashed in short order. Forty members of the assembly immediately declared for himself. Many more were opposed to Kemal but were not willing, at least for now, to see Enver in his place despite the defeats in the west. But for now Kemal's supporters held the majority and Kemal had outmanoeuvred Enver by proposing he took command of the Central front. Enver had been forced to accept, despite the Central front having been stripped off of most regular troops to deal with the Greek threat. Now he had to leave Sivas to go chase Pontian rebels, guerrilla activity had risen sharply between Turkish regular troops leaving the area and the Greek navy landing arms to the guerrillas. He'd be chasing rebels while Kemal remained in direct command of Turkey's largest army. But perhaps it was for the best. Kemal had his work cut out for him against the Greek army while he was bound to be reaping some easy victories in short order.

Kirikkale, July 19th, 1921

The whole regiment was marched past the dozen men hanging from the nooses. The cardboards hanging from their necks had a single word written on the. Deserter. Discipline would be restored by any and all means necessary. The last thing the war effort needed was losing yet more men to desertion as if the casualties suffered in the battles against the Greeks were not enough.

Sivas, July 22nd, 1921

The "Tan" newspaper had re-established itself in Sivas after the fall of Ankara. Today it had a manifesto undesigned by 63 members of the assembly. The "Third Group" had come to being in opposition to Kemal [1]. Ali Şükrü Bey, Tan's owner and moderate member of the assembly for Trebizond was one of the unofficial leaders of the group. Pressure on Kemal was now mounting, within the Assembly to do something against the Greeks. Kemal for the time being resisted it but something had to be done. And with Italian aid gone thanks to the Greek advance on Konya and further Soviet aid doubtful whatever was done would probably need to happen sooner, rather than later.

Panormos/Bandirma, July 12th, 1921 (old calendar)/July 25th, 1921 (new calendar)

Another troopship entered the harbour. A little fewer than 23,000 men were being shipped from Europe to reinforce the Asia Minor army. As soon as the transfers were complete total strength would be back up to 253,466 men slightly more than the were back at the start of the offensive in April. Of course now over 108,000 men including 2 infantry divisions were tied down on rear area security and covering the flanks of the area under Greek control. The B Army Corps had dug in on the Halys and the A Army Corps was covering Konya. The Smyrna Army Corps had been pulled back and stationed along the rail lines as a strategic reserve ready to reinforce either of the two forward positioned corps. Fighting was at a lull. The only serious operations were these in the Simav mountains, where Greek infantry with air support was trying to destroy the Kuva-i Miliye partisans in the area.

Gyumry, Armenia, August 4th, 1921

Forty thousand Soviet troops crossed the border with Turkey, that their leaders had recognized just a few months ago. But now it was a new different world and Soviet columns advanced towards Kars and Ardahan. Not a shot was fired. It remained to be seen whether Kazim Karabekir's troops would stand to fight or not...

[1] In OTL it was the Second Group and would come to being a year later. TTL Enver's supporters have already established themselves as a separate group and given the reverses suffered by the nationalists so far opposition officially establishes itself a year early.
 
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I’ve been reading your story for a while now and I love it. Can’t add anything meaningful since I know next to nothing of the period but I’ll definitely keep following this.
 
Minor note. As observant readers noticed, instead of Enver pasha. Too sleepy at the time I was writing after all. :) This now has been fixed
 
Part 13 A front in the east
Kars territory, August 5th, 1921

The Turkish Caucasus army had been reduced to fewer than 10,000 men with 4 out of the 6 infantry divisions it had available in 1919 redeployed west. Against the 40,000 men of the 11th Red Army it did not have much chance to hold them back. Perhaps it was impossible to hold the Soviets back but it could certainly delay their advance and Kazim Karabekir was not going the let the Russians take back Kars without a fight. Delaying action, after delaying action would follow as the Soviets inched their way west.

Kars, August 17th, 1921

The Soviets entered Kars. Most of the Muslim population had already fled is fear of Armenian reprisals for the massacre of about 8,000 Armenians when the town had fallen to Karabekir's troops the previous October. [1] The Soviet advance continued. Ardahan would follow on the 21st.

Sarikamis, August 23rd, 1921

The Soviets reached the 1914 border between Russia and the Ottoman empire... and stopped. Lenins's orders had been absolutely clear. A truce was offered to the Turks which Karabekir was quick to accept as soon as it was offered, his small army had inflicted over 1,300 casualties on the Soviets but being outnumbered four to one had suffered twice as many itself and it was nearing its breaking point. Negotiations for a final treaty, between Ali Fuat and Chicherin, never stopped even during the fighting continued based on the new situation on the ground. But Soviet military aid to the Nationalists was gone.

Moscow, September 6th, 1921

With Kars already lost Ali Fuat had not delayed the peace negotiations much more. Turkey had accepted peace with the Soviet Union, technically with the Transcaucasian Socialist Federative Republic but anyone could recognize a fiction for what it was, on the 1914 border with Russia. The previous treaty's terms on Nagorno Karabakh going to Azerbaijan were also dropped, the Soviet Union would not accept the Turks dictating to it what it was doing on its own territory. Ali Fuat hadn't even bothered to press on that question the only concession he had tried to get was resumption of Soviet military aid. But the Soviets after having to fight for Kars did not relent on that either. The only concession they had offered was selling weapons to the Nationalists as long as the latter could pay for them in gold and carried them on their own to Turkey. With a British backed Greek naval blockade of the Black sea ports and the Nationalist dependence on Soviet gold [2] it was a hollow one.

Mount Topçam, Pontic mountains, September 14th, 1921


Enver pasha settled in the house of the local jandama [3] commander for the night. Over the past few weeks he had personally led his two regiments of regular cavalry and the irregulars that formed the bulk of his force into a "vigorous" anti-guerrilla campaign. Villages had been burned, the deportations started earlier in the year pressed on with increased intensity, over 20,000 Greeks had been deported by now, with not a few killed outright. At Amasya several hundred prominent Pontic Greeks had been put on trial and summarily executed on grounds of treason in an attempt to deprive Pontic Greeks of their leadership. Had he hoped for a quiet night he would be bitterly disappointed as he was woken up in the middle of night by massed rifle fire, screams, grenade explosions and the rattle of machine guns. He grabbed his gun and jumped out of the door to find himself in front of a tall black clad man with a Mauser in his hands. Enver's body would be found the next day with multiple rifle shots. How the guerrillas of Koca Anastas, Anastasios Papadopoulos had learned of his whereabouts would be never known as Papadopoulos never reached Greece. In the Turkish Grand National Assembly, some of Enver's supporters would accuse the Kemalists that they had tipped the Greeks of his position. This was of course denied and would never be proven...

Halys/Kizilirmak river, September 12th, 1921 (old calendar)/ September 25th, 1921 (new calendar)


Mustafa Kemal was running out of time. Within the assembly opposition to him was mounting. After the last Greek advances support for the sultan was again on the rise and with it the danger of more uprisings against the Sivas government. With the last Greek advances cutting off the lines of communication with the Italians and the rift with the Soviets, new arms and munitions supplies were dwindling down to nothing. He had taken draconian measures to restore discipline in his army for the time being but chances were that come next spring it was going to be weaker than it currently was. The Turkish army had one last battle in it and now it was the time to give it. The assault columns start crossing the river under cover on night...


[1] Source the encyclopedia of the Armenian genocide here: http://www.armin.am/armeniansgenocide/en/Encyclopedia_Of_armenian_genocide_Kars
[2] The Nationalists of course still have a significant tax base, to go by Karpat's data the territory they control had a tax income ~7,500,000 Ottoman pounds in 1895 out of a total around ~13,000,000 for the area of modern Turkey. In 1923 that had a GDP of $577 million and revenues of $94 million. Hence at a rough estimate the territory controlled at the moment should have revenues around $54 million. But maintaining of a single soldier would average at a minimum $420 a year (based on the costs of $1.15 per day per soldier that both the Bulgarians and Greeks averaged during the Balkan wars, which may be low by 1921, in 1917 maintaining 15 Greek divisions was supposed to cost 900 million franks a year which is closer to $480-600 per soldier) This also forgets the lack of foreign exchange and gold which in OTL was covered from the Soviets and the Ottoman Red Crescent, in the latter's case in obvious violation of the spirit of the organization.
[3] The Turkish gendarmerie
 
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