The Sun, The Stars and The Sickle: Alt-WWII and a Tripolar Postwar World

What would you like to see next


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In terms of the Bicycle/Motorcycle based improvements, I can honestly see any Filipinos in theatre adapting this as well.

This strikes me as one of these "Heads, you get a Court Martial, Tails, you get a three step Promotion and an assignment most of the way across the IJA org chart,
 
This strikes me as one of these "Heads, you get a Court Martial, Tails, you get a three step Promotion and an assignment most of the way across the IJA org chart,

The ultimate reaction from Higher Authority will probably come down to where exactly the money came from. If the good captain and his subordinates were soliciting voluntary donations from friends and family after investing their own salaries into the project, I don't see where anyone really has grounds for complaint.

At worst they get a slap on the wrist and a lecture about the extra machine guns.
 
Well...that was...unexpected. Putting myself in the shoes of the kempeitai, who were probably expecting unruly soldiers making under the table deals with criminals involving drugs and flesh or whatnot...only to find them involved in semi-legitimate business with legitimate local industry to make up for logistical shortcomings. A bit shifty, true, and while inexcusable in peacetime and in the barracks, it is an unspoken rule on the field to make do with what you have and can do...
Yeah, what they expected as for them to be up to no good and likely doing illegal things. This? It's not illegal, but the sort of strange that they need to kick up the chain to ask what they're supposed to do, if anything.
…those poor kempeitai are going to have a lot of paperwork to write and send around when they get back to HQ. Though I do think the soldiers are going to get a lot of sympathy and even props for initiative and creativity while staying within the spirit of regulations. That, and setting off a shakeup in the logistics department of the IJA, over soldiers being forced to improvise because the rear echelons don't work fast or good enough.
Yeah, this would be a lot of paperwork for the kempeitai to say the least, especially as it is a real head scratcher as to what should be done. They didn't break any laws, all the things they have were either the type of thing that could get issued, given to them freely, or outright bought.

As for the logistics... well, as mentioned the Navy gets the lionshare of things here with the IJA making due. And anything the IJA gets would need to get through various layers as the best stuff would go to the elite troops, followed by the frontline troops, then to the more important positions... People like Captain Matsuda? He's garrisoning an area surrounding a village far from the frontlines. He might have a single truck and maybe a car or two between all his men. So when he asked for more vehicles, or parts there of to keep what he did have going? He was told that unfortunately, he was so far down the list he might as well not be on it. Which meant that he needed to make decisions regarding what he did have. For example, does he take the company's lone truck out for patrols through the area in order to cover it all, possibly multiple times a day, which would place wear and tear. And that if something did break, he could be looking at weeks or months for repairs?

Or does he come up with his own solution?

Well, he knew bicycles due to working with his father when he was younger on such and knows that they are both durable and easy to repair. So he goes and checks and finds a local who makes them. He offers to pay for him to produce bicycles of a specific kind to all his troops, including a sidecar. Local of course jumps at the chance because it gives him quite a bit of money. Then he arms them up for use, while having one of his men, whose uncle works in a motorcycle shop, send them parts to make a dozen or so for harder hitting. And what do you know? It works.

And yes, bicycles with sidecars were a thing:
Firestone-bicycle-with-sidecar-1.jpg

EDIT: I think the International Red Cross would be very interested in those makeshift, motorized or semi-motorized stretchers the Japanese soldiers came up with. They wouldn't be difficult or expensive to make or maintain, and would be very helpful for their operations. They might just take up the idea themselves, with suitable credit for the soldiers behind the idea in the first place, of course.
Actually, they were also used in WWI as a matter of fact:
agc3m66uwyb21.jpg

In this case, it is just another version of them.

As an aside, the IJA in OTL did use bicycle infantry (50,000 in fact), they found them very effective in China and Malaysia because they could use paths and such normal motorized vehicles could not with them being near silent while also allowing them to carry more gear.
That could result in a very upset Quartermaster, a surprise Order of the Sacred Treasure, 6th Class...or both!
I imagine that Captain Matsuda would be sort of shocked about that and utterly befuddled. He just wanted to give his men arms and the ability to get around quickly.

Granted, he nearly pissed himself when the kempeitai showed up in force wondering what he just did and if he was going to get hanged.
TTL, there is an alternate Washington Naval Treaty in place, hence the buildout being a bit- a lot- different. It's also why the Navy directs policy a lot more than OTL.

As for the tubes themselves... there could, theoretically of course ;), be a lighter, no-wire 18.1"/L50 made by one of the various Naval Arsenals, which could replace the 16.1"s 2-for-3
Ah, that makes sense.

As an aside, the US did consider 20" guns back in the 1930s. Basically, they got the 18" working and went "Well, that means that we can also use a 20" if we want."
In terms of the Bicycle/Motorcycle based improvements, I can honestly see any Filipinos in theatre adapting this as well.

This strikes me as one of these "Heads, you get a Court Martial, Tails, you get a three step Promotion and an assignment most of the way across the IJA org chart,
Now that could be interesting, I suppose. But yeah, it is a simple and effective way of doing things.
The ultimate reaction from Higher Authority will probably come down to where exactly the money came from. If the good captain and his subordinates were soliciting voluntary donations from friends and family after investing their own salaries into the project, I don't see where anyone really has grounds for complaint.

At worst they get a slap on the wrist and a lecture about the extra machine guns.
The money came from their own pocket as well as family and friends. About the worst thing is the aircraft guns as those would be Type 99 cannons recovered from destroyed aircraft. Not that unusual because in OTL during the Battle of Iwo Jima, one US Marine did something similar and took a gun from a crashed aircraft as a really heavy machine gun.
@HarryLeferts Very nice little snippet there - I like the initiative shown by the Men there.

Promotions all round!
*Shrugs* Who knows? I just wrote it up because the idea ticked me and was amusing.
 
@HarryLeferts

The dismounted aircraft machine guns were highly prized by the USMC as they had a much higher cyclic rate of fire than the ones issued to infantry, and could lay down a hail of fire against the enemy. A dismounted Type 99 Cannon would also make an excellent anti-materiel weapon.

As for 18"s, OTL, the USN had a lot of trouble getting theirs to perform as well as they wanted it to. There were problems with excessive weight, barrel wear, and angle of fall for the shells (too flat a trajectory at most ranges), and excessive dispersion. The 16" firing superheavy shells was determined to be the better weapon.

TTL, with larger ship sizes, I can see more work being done as none of these faults are irreconcileable, but 18" on ships is a Pandora's Box nobody wants to open- and few of the older ships stand a chance against 18" hits.

The Royal Navy had some trouble with the BL 18" Mk. I L/40 gun as well. Although it fired a heavy shell, had a relatively good barrel life, and predictable trajectory, the heavy, wire-wound barrel was prone to muzzle droop, and blast was excessive.

@naraht

The IJA's OTL campaign in Malaya was what I was thinking too when it came to bicycle troops.

The British Army also used rail-cycles, which are especially useful where roads are poor to nonexistent.
 
Now that could be interesting, I suppose. But yeah, it is a simple and effective way of doing things.

The money came from their own pocket as well as family and friends. About the worst thing is the aircraft guns as those would be Type 99 cannons recovered from destroyed aircraft. Not that unusual because in OTL during the Battle of Iwo Jima, one US Marine did something similar and took a gun from a crashed aircraft as a really heavy machine gun.

Honestly, I expect the most negative reaction once things are explained up the chain of command is that this is a "technology" that the Chinese may get more use from than the Allies. The closest(???) thing that I can come up with from OTL would be is if a Soviet Unit in 1942 figured out how to run a Tank on Coal Dust dissolved in Alcohol (which I really hope isn't a thing), while it may help the Soviet units farthest from Oil supply, it would instantly improve the German war effort across the board.

On balance, I expect this example to come up in the "discussions" between the IJA and IJN, with the IJA using it as an example of how the IJN is starving them. The Americans other than the Marines are likely to consider it amusing, the USMC will start adapting it 15 minutes after they find out about it, Not sure about the British, did the Royal Marines have the same reputation of being scroungers that the USMC did?


*LONG* term, this is probably going to be adapted by various independence movements in Asia, so I guess the headaches are more British, French and Dutch, but they won't *blame* Captain Matsuda.
 
By Imperial order, at least production of 20mm ammunition has been standardized between the Army and the Navy, settling on 20 × 110mm, although Navy cannon are licenced Oerlikon MG-FFS and Army cannon are based on Browning actions. That way at least if dismounting a cannon from a downed Zero, it won't have incompatible ammunition, compared to a Ki-44 Shoki.

As for the Royal Marines, the service was much smaller than the USMC and much more specialized. There is the Royal Marine Artillery, which mans at least one turret on RN battleships, and also the Commandos, as well as RM pilots serving aboard carriers. With OTL's Dieppe raid butterflied away, there is at least one more Commando available.
 
The improptu bicycle corps have a bright future ahead of them I'm pretty sure. By the way, I was intrigued by the look we got at Pujie and Lady Saga. It suggested they have a pretty effective partnership, and maybe even a bit of affection. I assume they've not been idle since Japan (and by extension Manchukuo and Mengjiang) are fully committed to the fight against Nazism.
 
The improptu bicycle corps have a bright future ahead of them I'm pretty sure. By the way, I was intrigued by the look we got at Pujie and Lady Saga. It suggested they have a pretty effective partnership, and maybe even a bit of affection. I assume they've not been idle since Japan (and by extension Manchukuo and Mengjiang) are fully committed to the fight against Nazism.

From what I know, they're much more effective rulers than Pu-Yi ever was. Why doesn't Pu-Yi just abdicate in favor of his brother? I mean it's not like he really wants to be Emperor at all.
 
The improptu bicycle corps have a bright future ahead of them I'm pretty sure. By the way, I was intrigued by the look we got at Pujie and Lady Saga. It suggested they have a pretty effective partnership, and maybe even a bit of affection. I assume they've not been idle since Japan (and by extension Manchukuo and Mengjiang) are fully committed to the fight against Nazism.

Prince Regent Pujie and Princess Hiro are indeed a very effective partnership. Both are highly intelligent and educated, and are well-received in Japanese high society. It helps that Princess Hiro is the daughter of a Marquess, and a distant relation of Emperor Hirohito as well. Both have been granted an audience with His Imperial Japanese Majesty, who was duly impressed as well, especially considering his audience with Puyi did not go as well- Puyi was hailed as an accomplished equestrian like Hirohito, but was actually afraid of horses!

Both Pujie and Hiro have read about the horrors of Nazi Germany and have had audiences with refugees, which is a driving factor behind Manchukuo's no quota policy for Jews fleeing occupied Europe. This policy is also endorsed by Chiune Sugihara, who is now Japan's ambassador to the Polish Government-in-Exile.

As for affection, theirs is a marriage of love, not a power play. They rarely leave each others' side, and engagements are usually conducted together.

From what I know, they're much more effective rulers than Pu-Yi ever was. Why doesn't Pu-Yi just abdicate in favor of his brother? I mean it's not like he really wants to be Emperor at all.

Fortunately, the Constitution and rules of succession for a young nation are still quite flexible... it should not be too difficult, especially now that it appears unlikely that Puyi and Wanrong will ever improve enough to do public duties. They are also a succession crisis in the making as Puyi is impotent.

As for Pujie and Hiro's (should no son be concieved) daughters, the rules could be changed to allow one to become Empress, or Japanese precedent be followed and a potential heir be adopted. For instance, Emperor Hirohito's great uncle and War Minister, Prince Kotohito Kan'in was himself adopted- and is also Empress Kojun's great uncle by birth!
 
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On a slightly related note to HarryLeferts story, I had an idea for a Cold War era vignette focusing on the three-way battle for "soft power"/cultural currency between the blocs. However, I think I'll hold onto it for now, since there's still more info to be filled out on the outcome of WW2 and postwar international relations (to be clear, Sun/Stars/Sickle's version of WW2 is excellent and I'm enjoying the approach to the war from varying perspectives and fronts).
 
I'm guessing this song's lyrics aren't as hypocritically shameless when referring to the IJA ITTL.

Y'know, assuming the closed captions are vaguely correct, this is the first military march I've heard that takes time to call out the vital work of the transportation corps and of field medics.

And yeah, the parts about generously caring for enemy soldiers ring very, very false given real-world history. TTL, I'd predict Shunroku Hata will have a good deal of cachet postwar (barring any spectacular failure), given that he was head of military training when the IJA units currently pushing towards Chonqing were being raised, and has gotten the marshal's badge for field command in China
 
Y'know, assuming the closed captions are vaguely correct, this is the first military march I've heard that takes time to call out the vital work of the transportation corps and of field medics.

And yeah, the parts about generously caring for enemy soldiers ring very, very false given real-world history. TTL, I'd predict Shunroku Hata will have a good deal of cachet postwar (barring any spectacular failure), given that he was head of military training when the IJA units currently pushing towards Chonqing were being raised, and has gotten the marshal's badge for field command in China

Giving credit where it's due, there's also the French. IIRC, Waterproof Potatoes mentioned that plenty of the IJA's current crop of flag and senior officers are graduates of French military academies from the 1920s onward. I imagine the Japanese ITTL owe as much to them as to Hata for proper yet humane discipline among the ranks. And the French with their experiences from WWI are almost certainly to thank for Japan's much improved logistics (both capability and appreciation thereof) ITTL.
 
I'm guessing this song's lyrics aren't as hypocritically shameless when referring to the IJA ITTL.


Absolutely! Especially the part that goes something like 'Our Medics treat not just our soldiers, but the enemy's, channeling the compassion of our benevolent Emperor".

TTL, the soldiers are bound much more closely to that. Both the Chief of General Staff and Army Minister are the Emperor's relatives, and the Emperor himself has held commanders personally responsible for the conduct of troops under their command. To defy these orders is a direct insult to the House of Yamato and the Emperor himself.

Y'know, assuming the closed captions are vaguely correct, this is the first military march I've heard that takes time to call out the vital work of the transportation corps and of field medics.

And yeah, the parts about generously caring for enemy soldiers ring very, very false given real-world history. TTL, I'd predict Shunroku Hata will have a good deal of cachet postwar (barring any spectacular failure), given that he was head of military training when the IJA units currently pushing towards Chonqing were being raised, and has gotten the marshal's badge for field command in China

That may very well be the case... and Hata proved adept at political maneuvering OTL as well. and remained deeply involved in veterans' affairs upon his release from prison until his death.

Giving credit where it's due, there's also the French. IIRC, Waterproof Potatoes mentioned that plenty of the IJA's current crop of flag and senior officers are graduates of French military academies from the 1920s onward. I imagine the Japanese ITTL owe as much to them as to Hata for proper yet humane discipline among the ranks. And the French with their experiences from WWI are almost certainly to thank for Japan's much improved logistics (both capability and appreciation thereof) ITTL.

This is indeed the case! The humane treatment of foes and improved logistics are due in no small part to French influence, as is more technical education for not just senior officers, but junior officers and NCOs as well. The newer generation of officers in the field and graduating from the War College are even, on average, taller than graduates of the old program- less brutal physical training and beatings no longer a core part of discipline have eliminated the problems of stunted growth in the Cadet Corps. TTL's IJA, in the words of the Emperor "...has no use for men with the hearts of lions but the brains of sheep!"

French military education also does accommodate élan, for which "Bushido" can be readily substituted, no doubt a great appeal! Marshal Foch is a particular favourite- "Mon centre céde, ma droite recule, situation excellente, j'attaque." (My centre is giving way, my right is retreating, situation excellent, I am attacking.)
 
Humane discipline tempered by iron will, of course. Petty misdemeanors and minor offenses might no longer be punished by beatings, but rape? Involvement with crime syndicates? Illegal drugs?

It's hanging time.
 
Humane discipline tempered by iron will, of course. Petty misdemeanors and minor offenses might no longer be punished by beatings, but rape? Involvement with crime syndicates? Illegal drugs?

It's hanging time.

Or, if the accused gets found out by a particularly compassionate kempeitai, in lieu of an investigation, they may be allowed to kneel, be handed their own bayonet, and be permitted to atone for bringing dishonour to the Emperor and the Army which he commands...
 
Or, if the accused gets found out by a particularly compassionate kempeitai, in lieu of an investigation, they may be allowed to kneel, be handed their own bayonet, and be permitted to atone for bringing dishonour to the Emperor and the Army which he commands...

Not too sure how the Americans might think of that, but among Europeans, well...

...courtesy for a gentleman, I guess.
 
Not too sure how the Americans might think of that, but among Europeans, well...

...courtesy for a gentleman, I guess.

MacArthur may see it as something of a courtesy afforded to a warrior, allowing him to reclaim in death the honour he lost in life, while Stilwell will likely write something disparaging about what he sees as the barbaric practices of the "bloodthirsty Japs... it isn't enough for them to see the Chinese bleed, they do it to their own, without emotion. How can you trust a people like that?", with a few opinions in between the two extremes.
 
MacArthur may see it as something of a courtesy afforded to a warrior, allowing him to reclaim in death the honour he lost in life, while Stilwell will likely write something disparaging about what he sees as the barbaric practices of the "bloodthirsty Japs... it isn't enough for them to see the Chinese bleed, they do it to their own, without emotion. How can you trust a people like that?", with a few opinions in between the two extremes.

Really, Stilwell? I am pretty sure it wasn't all that long ago when it was socially-acceptable for high-born/well-to-do Europeans to just eat a gun (figuratively) than face a public trial. And the apparent sympathy for the Chinese is hypocritical, considering even IOTL he saw them as no better than the Japanese, essentially just askaris fighting on American money.
 
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