I assume the JNR D51 types were replicated for use on these lines. After all, they were already common in Korea early on the Asian theatre.
The Sun, The Stars and The Sickle: Alt-WWII and a Tripolar Postwar World
- Thread starter WaterproofPotatoes
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Come to think of it, how are Japan's relations with regard to Ethiopia? IOTL, even their budding alliance with Italy and Germany, the former's invasion and annexation of Ethiopia caused quite a stink in Japan.
I will note that in regards to the guns, the Japanese actually have a very big gun:
^This is a 41 cm (16 Inch) howitzer that the Japanese created. As a matter of fact, they first built in the 1920s, so it would exist here and later deployed in China in 1945 and destroyed at the end of the war.
I will note that in regards to the guns, the Japanese actually have a very big gun:
^This is a 41 cm (16 Inch) howitzer that the Japanese created. As a matter of fact, they first built in the 1920s, so it would exist here and later deployed in China in 1945 and destroyed at the end of the war.
So...if the Germans called theirs Schwerer Gustav, what do the Japanese call theirs?
Sorry to disappoint, but they just called it the "Trial 41 cm Howitzer".
...could they call it the Yamato Cannon ITTL?
For the big railway gun, I went with Jimmu, after the first Emperor.
For the big howitzer, I like Shoki, after the Japanization of Zhong Kui, the legendary vanquisher of 80 000 demons.
@HarryLeferts , here is the 14"/L50 on a proving mount:
...could they call it the Yamato Cannon ITTL?
I like that actually. Though I imagine that the British and such would look at it with intrigue considering how much big guns were used in WWI. Probably help develop a railway mounting for it as well.
That is a very nice gun as a matter of fact.
Also, is it odd that I cannot help but imagine a certain American General having them ship over the 18 inch gun in the US to show up the Japanese?
I like that actually. Though I imagine that the British and such would look at it with intrigue considering how much big guns were used in WWI. Probably help develop a railway mounting for it as well.
That is a very nice gun as a matter of fact.
Also, is it odd that I cannot help but imagine a certain American General having them ship over the 18 inch gun in the US to show up the Japanese?
The mounts for the IJN railway guns are derived from the Elswick pattern for the 14" British WWI railway guns HM Guns Scene Shifter and Boche Buster, with improvements made by French engineers from Schneider et Compagnie.
Here is KGV inspecting Boche Buster:
As for an 18-incher, I think even Dugout Doug may find that needlessly provocative...
The mounts for the IJN railway guns are derived from the Elswick pattern for the 14" British WWI railway guns HM Guns Scene Shifter and Boche Buster, with improvements made by French engineers from Schneider et Compagnie.
Here is KGV inspecting Boche Buster:
As for an 18-incher, I think even Dugout Doug may find that needlessly provocative...
Agreed, especially since he's gotten along just fine with Count Terauchi.
For all his machismo, Mussolini has to be looking at the Allies' massive military buildup and thinking that he made the right choice in not joining the Axis. To paraphrase Wargames, the winning move was not to play. Although now the W+J Allies are in the awkward position of having a fascist nation around that they don't really like, but have no casus belli against.
Exactly!
There is a certain faacination that extends both ways, and both share a positively aristocratic upbringing- MacArthur's father was Lieutenant General Arthur MacArthur Jr., a veteran of the Spanish-American War and governor of the Philippines. Field Marshal Count Hisaichi Terauchi is the son of General Count Masatake Terauchi, who was governor of Korea and Prime Minister of Japan. There are few further awards that the younger Terauchi could achieve- elevation in the Peerage to Marquess or Prince (and thus a guaranteed seat in the House of Peers for life), or running for the office of Prime Minister himself.
Both are highly intelligent, well-read, and skilled at political maneuvering; and each are known in each other's countries. "The Laughing Count" is one of the most immediately familiar Japanese commanders Stateside, while MacArthur, swaggering in a worn gold-braided forage cap, leather jacket, corncob pipe and sunglasses, is the "Gaijin Shogun".
Japan has definitely registered her protests, and for her part, joined Britain in refusing to support the Italian cause, albeit quietly, lest too much ire over Manchukuo be drawn.
Mussolini, by all appearances,has made tge right move... for now at least
Yeah, I can see this to be honest and it makes a lot of sense.The mounts for the IJN railway guns are derived from the Elswick pattern for the 14" British WWI railway guns HM Guns Scene Shifter and Boche Buster, with improvements made by French engineers from Schneider et Compagnie.
Here is KGV inspecting Boche Buster:
Perhaps, but I can still see him musing about it after a couple of drinks, especially after hearing about the Yamato and her guns.
Granted, there is a few interesting things there about the design of said Battleship and her turrets...
Makes sense.
As an aside, I had an oddly hilarious idea regarding the IJA and how some Junior Officers, frustrated at the lack of support, might decide to take things into their own hands that would cause bemusement from their superiors (not anger from them as much as “Er... well, that is a thing?”). Just don’t know if I would be able to write it for this...
Out of curiosity, would it be okay if I posted a little snippet? Based on the amusing idea I had?
TTL, HIJMS Yamato and her sisters Mushashi and Shinano are being built to a different design than OTL's ships. These have their design roots in the No. 13 class battleships, and are longer, thinner, lighter and much faster (34 kn is the specified top speed, to keep up with the Shokaku and Taiho class carriers) ships than OTL's. They are designed to be the core of a fast carrier fleet, using their big guns to keep the enemy from getting too close to the carriers.
Their armament consists of 12 x L/53 Type 1 41cm Naval Guns in 4 triple turrets- 16.1" gun ships rather than 18.1" gun ships.
The only 18.1"s the IJN developed would be the L/50 5th Year Type 46cm Gun, designed in 1916 (5th year of the Taisho Emperor's reign), and planned for the No. 13 class battleships. None were ever built.
Makes sense.
Many of the jeune ecole Army officers (generally those who entered the War College after 1932 and Hirohito's purge of radical elements in the IJA) are looked upon as dilettantes by some of the radical older hands. The militants' position was derisive; they would refer to the War College as the "Peer's School" , and they deride what they see as too much of an emphasis on appearance , dress and deportment, an overly soft attitude towards enemy peoples (looting is punishable by 7 years' hard labour minimum, and for more severe crimes, the penalty is death), and too much emphasis on technical education and a "sanitized" Bushido code.
Absolutely! Please do at your convenience, with my full endorsement!
Huh... because the designs date back to 1934 when they started looking at them. One of the big things is that the IJN planned on staying ahead by upgunning the Yamato Class from triple 18.1” to double 20” guns. Mainly because they figured that the US would realize the true size or the guns around 1941 and build their own 18” Battleships. Thus, they needed to be able to get up to 20” to stay ahead.
Not quite that far, but...
Give me a few minutes...
Takahashi was... annoyed and somewhat frustrated, to say the least. Part of it, at least, was because he was currently bouncing some in his seat as the driver of his vehicle grumbled a little about the state of the roads this far outside the city. It was something that, frankly, Takahashi agreed with fully. Someone was going to be getting a chat, to say the least about the state of infrastructure. Especially as there was a war going on.
However, more to his annoyance and anger was the why he had to leave his nice, cosy office and come out to the countryside.
And that was mainly due to needing to deal with some new stupidity from a Junior Officer in the IJA has committed. It was his duty as Kempeitai to protect the Empire from internal issues. More often than he would have wished, it was mainly some moronic Officer either “Going off the Reservation”, as the Americans called it, or allowing his troops to. Which meant that they would be punished harshly for it. The eyes of the World were on them after all and with Allied forced assisting, there such things were tolerated even less than before.
With another bump that jostled him, he took a deep breath to calm himself. Oh, yes, someone was going to be having a bad day if he had to say anything about it.
Shaking that off, he went back over what they did know about what was going on, which was enough. The first thing that had caught the eyes was when someone noted that there had been a number of wire transfers of money. Not a whole lot at once, but enough to catch their interest. An investigation showed that it was to the same people, soldiers in a Company Battalion. There had also been found an envelope with money in it to the same people.
With that, an investigation was carried out on what might be going on. Some shipments of parts were noted and tracked to the same place. Some of them, like steel tubing and engine parts had made those investigating frown. There was definitely something going on here.
Follow up investigations revealed that the Commander of the Company, one Captain Matsuda Kensuke, had been noted as complaining about the lack of material for his men. In particular vehicles and the like for both transporting and fighting. Such things were in short supply, however, and his Battalion was simply not important enough to be moved up the line. His superiors and those supply officers that he had complained to had noted that the man was becoming very frustrated and somewhat angry.
All of which, in Takahashi’s opinion, was the perfect recipe for someone to do something stupid that he would need to clean up.
Part of the Kempeitai Officer, not that he would admit it, sometimes could not help but think maybe they should just string up a bunch of the Officers in the lower ranks of the Army. A lot of them continually complained and caused problems, after all in his experience. Some of them did stupid things to try and get glory and the like. To move up the ranks and maybe reach the peerage. Which meant that people like him would need to move on and deal with whatever moronic thing that they had done now and clean up with punishments meted out to those involved.
He was brought out of his thoughts, however, as they finally reached the village where Matsuda’s Battalion was stationed. Something that made him sigh in relief as soon it would be over and he could get back to his office...
___________________________________________
Roughly forty five minutes later, however, Takahashi stood next to Matsuda who was stiffly at attention. The Kempeitai Officer slowly blinked before closing his eyes for almost a minute. Just to make sure that what he was seeing was not some sort of hallucination.
It wasn’t, as proven when he opened his eye and it was still there.
A glance told him that it was not just him among the group of Kempeitai who had arrived on trucks that had expressions of disbelief. Briefly, he looked at Matsuda who looked terrified, and then back at his men who were all standing at attention as well. They had been caught performing exercises when the vehicles had rolled up. All of them looked nervous as well.
But that was not what caught Takahashi’s attention. Rather what was making him stare was what they had apparently equipped themselves with. At a glance, he counted no less than three dozen bicycles with side cars attached. About five of those side cars were extended and seemed to have a compartment with the inside modified to be used as a stretcher. Said side cars also had a white cross painted on them.
The other side cars all had what seemed to be light machine guns mounted on pintle mounts on the front of them.
With that done, Takashi turned to some of the other vehicles. Some were tricycle style with trailers attached, three of which seemed to carry mortars and others gear. He also recognized what looked to be cycle rickshaws he had seen in places like Shanghai. These could probably seat at least five or six, with two up front, one of whom was a driver. And beside him, mounted on a pintle mount, was a heavy machine gun. They also had what looked like sheet metal around the sides.
Finally, there were about a dozen motorcycles with sidecars attached. Said sidecars, however, were equipped with what looked like guns from aircraft. For a few moments, Takashi was silent before turning to the Captain beside him, who seemed to flush some in either embarrassment or anger, likely a mixture of both. Slowly blinking, the Kempeitai Officer took a breath before letting it out, “Explain.”
Swallowing, Matsuda took a deep breath, “My father is a bicycle shop owner back in Gifu, Sir. I grew up around them and because we haven’t been getting vehicles and such, I... felt that we could make due with them. And, also, I’ve been to Shanghai so I know that rickshaws can move a lot of people and material. There’s a small bicycle factory in the local area that built them and we compensated them for their work via cash and materials.” Glancing at the motorcycles, he flushed, “One of my men has an uncle who does some motorcycle work and sent us parts we paid for which we used as well.”
Glancing at said motorcycles, Takahashi raised an eyebrow, “And the guns on said motorcycles, Captain?”
Now really nervous, he began to sweat, “Salvaged from planes shot down or too damaged to be anything but scrapped. I... I felt that their guns could be used to help my men just in case.” Jaw moving a little, Matsuda took another breath, “The locals seem to enjoy us going around in them while on patrol.”
Slowly, Takahashi nodded with a slight frown, “I’m sure they do.” Reaching up, he took off his cap and scratched at his head, at a loss as to what he should do with this. And from a glance, he could see that his fellow Kempeitai were also unsure. This was certainly not what he expected when he came here. And he was not quite certain as to how his superiors would react to his report either...
However, more to his annoyance and anger was the why he had to leave his nice, cosy office and come out to the countryside.
And that was mainly due to needing to deal with some new stupidity from a Junior Officer in the IJA has committed. It was his duty as Kempeitai to protect the Empire from internal issues. More often than he would have wished, it was mainly some moronic Officer either “Going off the Reservation”, as the Americans called it, or allowing his troops to. Which meant that they would be punished harshly for it. The eyes of the World were on them after all and with Allied forced assisting, there such things were tolerated even less than before.
With another bump that jostled him, he took a deep breath to calm himself. Oh, yes, someone was going to be having a bad day if he had to say anything about it.
Shaking that off, he went back over what they did know about what was going on, which was enough. The first thing that had caught the eyes was when someone noted that there had been a number of wire transfers of money. Not a whole lot at once, but enough to catch their interest. An investigation showed that it was to the same people, soldiers in a Company Battalion. There had also been found an envelope with money in it to the same people.
With that, an investigation was carried out on what might be going on. Some shipments of parts were noted and tracked to the same place. Some of them, like steel tubing and engine parts had made those investigating frown. There was definitely something going on here.
Follow up investigations revealed that the Commander of the Company, one Captain Matsuda Kensuke, had been noted as complaining about the lack of material for his men. In particular vehicles and the like for both transporting and fighting. Such things were in short supply, however, and his Battalion was simply not important enough to be moved up the line. His superiors and those supply officers that he had complained to had noted that the man was becoming very frustrated and somewhat angry.
All of which, in Takahashi’s opinion, was the perfect recipe for someone to do something stupid that he would need to clean up.
Part of the Kempeitai Officer, not that he would admit it, sometimes could not help but think maybe they should just string up a bunch of the Officers in the lower ranks of the Army. A lot of them continually complained and caused problems, after all in his experience. Some of them did stupid things to try and get glory and the like. To move up the ranks and maybe reach the peerage. Which meant that people like him would need to move on and deal with whatever moronic thing that they had done now and clean up with punishments meted out to those involved.
He was brought out of his thoughts, however, as they finally reached the village where Matsuda’s Battalion was stationed. Something that made him sigh in relief as soon it would be over and he could get back to his office...
___________________________________________
Roughly forty five minutes later, however, Takahashi stood next to Matsuda who was stiffly at attention. The Kempeitai Officer slowly blinked before closing his eyes for almost a minute. Just to make sure that what he was seeing was not some sort of hallucination.
It wasn’t, as proven when he opened his eye and it was still there.
A glance told him that it was not just him among the group of Kempeitai who had arrived on trucks that had expressions of disbelief. Briefly, he looked at Matsuda who looked terrified, and then back at his men who were all standing at attention as well. They had been caught performing exercises when the vehicles had rolled up. All of them looked nervous as well.
But that was not what caught Takahashi’s attention. Rather what was making him stare was what they had apparently equipped themselves with. At a glance, he counted no less than three dozen bicycles with side cars attached. About five of those side cars were extended and seemed to have a compartment with the inside modified to be used as a stretcher. Said side cars also had a white cross painted on them.
The other side cars all had what seemed to be light machine guns mounted on pintle mounts on the front of them.
With that done, Takashi turned to some of the other vehicles. Some were tricycle style with trailers attached, three of which seemed to carry mortars and others gear. He also recognized what looked to be cycle rickshaws he had seen in places like Shanghai. These could probably seat at least five or six, with two up front, one of whom was a driver. And beside him, mounted on a pintle mount, was a heavy machine gun. They also had what looked like sheet metal around the sides.
Finally, there were about a dozen motorcycles with sidecars attached. Said sidecars, however, were equipped with what looked like guns from aircraft. For a few moments, Takashi was silent before turning to the Captain beside him, who seemed to flush some in either embarrassment or anger, likely a mixture of both. Slowly blinking, the Kempeitai Officer took a breath before letting it out, “Explain.”
Swallowing, Matsuda took a deep breath, “My father is a bicycle shop owner back in Gifu, Sir. I grew up around them and because we haven’t been getting vehicles and such, I... felt that we could make due with them. And, also, I’ve been to Shanghai so I know that rickshaws can move a lot of people and material. There’s a small bicycle factory in the local area that built them and we compensated them for their work via cash and materials.” Glancing at the motorcycles, he flushed, “One of my men has an uncle who does some motorcycle work and sent us parts we paid for which we used as well.”
Glancing at said motorcycles, Takahashi raised an eyebrow, “And the guns on said motorcycles, Captain?”
Now really nervous, he began to sweat, “Salvaged from planes shot down or too damaged to be anything but scrapped. I... I felt that their guns could be used to help my men just in case.” Jaw moving a little, Matsuda took another breath, “The locals seem to enjoy us going around in them while on patrol.”
Slowly, Takahashi nodded with a slight frown, “I’m sure they do.” Reaching up, he took off his cap and scratched at his head, at a loss as to what he should do with this. And from a glance, he could see that his fellow Kempeitai were also unsure. This was certainly not what he expected when he came here. And he was not quite certain as to how his superiors would react to his report either...
Well...that was...unexpected. Putting myself in the shoes of the kempeitai, who were probably expecting unruly soldiers making under the table deals with criminals involving drugs and flesh or whatnot...only to find them involved in semi-legitimate business with legitimate local industry to make up for logistical shortcomings. A bit shifty, true, and while inexcusable in peacetime and in the barracks, it is an unspoken rule on the field to make do with what you have and can do...
…those poor kempeitai are going to have a lot of paperwork to write and send around when they get back to HQ. Though I do think the soldiers are going to get a lot of sympathy and even props for initiative and creativity while staying within the spirit of regulations. That, and setting off a shakeup in the logistics department of the IJA, over soldiers being forced to improvise because the rear echelons don't work fast or good enough.
EDIT: I think the International Red Cross would be very interested in those makeshift, motorized or semi-motorized stretchers the Japanese soldiers came up with. They wouldn't be difficult or expensive to make or maintain, and would be very helpful for their operations. They might just take up the idea themselves, with suitable credit for the soldiers behind the idea in the first place, of course.
…those poor kempeitai are going to have a lot of paperwork to write and send around when they get back to HQ. Though I do think the soldiers are going to get a lot of sympathy and even props for initiative and creativity while staying within the spirit of regulations. That, and setting off a shakeup in the logistics department of the IJA, over soldiers being forced to improvise because the rear echelons don't work fast or good enough.
EDIT: I think the International Red Cross would be very interested in those makeshift, motorized or semi-motorized stretchers the Japanese soldiers came up with. They wouldn't be difficult or expensive to make or maintain, and would be very helpful for their operations. They might just take up the idea themselves, with suitable credit for the soldiers behind the idea in the first place, of course.
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That could result in a very upset Quartermaster, a surprise Order of the Sacred Treasure, 6th Class...or both!
TTL, there is an alternate Washington Naval Treaty in place, hence the buildout being a bit- a lot- different. It's also why the Navy directs policy a lot more than OTL.
As for the tubes themselves... there could, theoretically of course
, be a lighter, no-wire 18.1"/L50 made by one of the various Naval Arsenals, which could replace the 16.1"s 2-for-3- Status