At the time, the owner was the Grand Trunk Pacific Railroad. They have a lot of skin in this game. No wonder they went bankrupt in 1919.
http://shipbuildinghistory.com/canadayards/princerupert.htm
The Rainbow. A World War One on Canada's West Coast Timeline
- Thread starter YYJ
- Start date
http://shipbuildinghistory.com/canadayards/princerupert.htm
Vancouver and Victoria did have shipbuilding industries. But all of the big fast liners were built in the UK, mostly Scotland. To put further pressure on BC shipping, OTL the Royal Navy requisitioned 2 x 5000ton 22.5 knot turbine powered liners built for the CPR in 1915 to use as minelayers. They never made it to BC.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMS_Princess_Margaret
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMS_Princess_Irene
This is a very sensible argument. If we sat down with Captain Von Schönberg, we might have a hard time convincing him, a cruiser captain, that speed was not important. Using the Seeadler as an auxiliary cruiser was truly lateral thinking. Also, the big liners the Germans used as auxiliary cruisers did burn a lot of coal, which had their captains always worried about the next coaling. The captain of either the Prinz Eitel Freidrich or Kronprinz Wilhelm reportedly called his ship a useless coal eater.
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You are right in that this will affect the war effort. Losing the copper might not immediately affect the war effort, but something is not getting made that would have been had it not been destroyed. Maybe it's in the civilian market that this shortfall shows up. A lack of electrical wire or other similar uses that don't get made. That could affect the rebuilding effort of the ships needs to replace the ones Von Schönberg sinks, who knows. The point is this raid has already been hugely successful from an economic standpoint. From a psychological standpoint it's even more successful as once word of this spreads all remote outposts of the Empire will demand 'protection' which will stretch GB too far.
While I've always thought about the logistics of war and the economics this TL has made me think quite differently about the possibilities of raiders and their potential targets.
Again, well done!
I think a larger effect then the simple matter of rebuilding the damage would be the public demanding much more extensive coastal and domestic defenses of Canadian territory. That would consist of building far more coastal defenses then are really needed and keeping more men at home to man those defenses instead of sending them to Europe.
Its such a shame Dewey along with much of the Asiatic fleet's support vessels and personnel weren't evacuated once the US knew that war was all but inevitable within two or three months ie early November of 1941. As it was they were needlessly thrown away which really hurt the USN's logistical abilities especially as related to submarines since they lost literally hundreds of highly trained and experienced personnel who were among the best in the navy at keeping submarines and their torpedoes in fighting shape"on the Pacific?"
Yikes...
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So the writer on the PR drydock photo is mistaken. Radl (and perhaps this author) are mistaken that the PR floating drydock is the second biggest in the world, but Radl and perhaps this author are aware that there is one in the Philippines that is bigger.
Dave Shoup
Banned
The US and Filipino forces in the PI got caught right on the cusp of being in a position to force the Japanese to reconsider their plans, but weren't quite there ... tough to get to that point without risk the other side moves first, of course.
I think it's perfectly acceptable in the story from Radl and the caption writer was probably referring to the Pacific Coast of Canada. It's all good.
Absolutely. Unreliable narrators are a thing, due to their being misinformed, or what have you.
"on the Pacific?"
Yikes...
This is a GREAT picture. Thank you for finding this!
Donald Reaver
Donor
City directory for Prince Rupert in 1914. https://bccd.vpl.ca/index.php/browse/title/1914/Henderson's_Prince_Rupert_City_Directory
Seems to be internal phones, can they contact outside of the city. Interesting reference for the city at that point.
Seems to be internal phones, can they contact outside of the city. Interesting reference for the city at that point.
Cool! I like those old city directories.
I'm thinking a long distance telephone line would probably be on the same route as the telegraph line out of town. Maybe even the same company?
Can people inside Prince Rupert direct dial each other, or do they need an operator to make the connection?
Cool. I had Captain Fry call the operator rather than dial direct, but he was trying to call Vancouver.
Anyox had its own phone system too. That was certainly internal.
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Dave Shoup
Banned
Very true.
All credit goes to the US Navy Historical Center's very useful website.
Looking into the fog with binoculars
Aug 17, 1955 hours. SMS Prince Rupert, Prince Rupert Harbour.
Officers stood on the Princess Charlotte’s port bridge wing, looking into the fog with binoculars. They turned to watch the Prince Rupert approach, then startled as she pulled alongside and ground to a stop against their ship’s side, without even the courtesy of lowering bumpers. When armed sailors started vaulting over the rail, they ran from the bridge. The boarding party was thin, what with the number of wounded that Prince Rupert’s crew had suffered, and those that remained manning the guns covering the boarding. Still, they were unopposed, and quickly took control of the ship.
Von Spee stood at the gangplank to the wharf. Some of the Princess Charlotte’s crew were running down the wharf. It was too late to catch them.
“They will sound the alarm in the town within minutes,” he said. “We might as well release the lot,” he said to one of his petty officers, who was leading the detail guarding the crew and few passengers who had been rounded up in a search of the ship. They were lined up in a row on the lower promenade deck. Deck crew in blue uniforms, and machinery space crew in overalls, and a couple of dozen passengers in various states of dress and undress. One sheepish looking man and woman were wearing blankets.
“Go on, you are free to go,” he said to the assembled passengers and crew. He said to his petty officer, “Have the other prisoners brought as well. We can get rid of all those extra mouths.” Looking like they were still in a state of disbelief, the passengers and crew of the Princess Charlotte, filed down the gangplank onto the wharf.
The wharf was dominated by a one long peaked-roof warehouse, with Grand Trunk Pacific – Prince Rupert painted on the front. Behind were lines of railway tracks, with clusters of freight cars here and there. At the left side of the dock, to the north, was a wooden ramp wide enough for three wagons abreast, built like a trestle, that led over the tracks and up to the level of the main part of the city. On the other side of the tracks were two multi-story square buildings. One said F.G. Dawson – Fruit and Produce – Wholesale Grocers, the other Kelly Douglas & Co. Ltd. – Wholesale Grocers – The Home of Nabob Brands, up a four story façade.
Beyond, was a dirt bank with exposed rock outcroppings, and a mess of giant stumps. Just visible through the fog were some ornate stone and brick office buildings. The effect, thought Von Spee, was as if a few blocks of San Francisco had appeared in the middle of Anyox. This collision of blasted wilderness and metropolis seemed to be how they did things in Canada.
“Ready the three worst of our wounded for transport. I want to speak to the militia and fisheries officers before we release them.”
https://searcharchives.vancouver.ca...9e0c85-8aee-4f0d-b587-6bf89e94b481-A30018.jpg
Officers stood on the Princess Charlotte’s port bridge wing, looking into the fog with binoculars. They turned to watch the Prince Rupert approach, then startled as she pulled alongside and ground to a stop against their ship’s side, without even the courtesy of lowering bumpers. When armed sailors started vaulting over the rail, they ran from the bridge. The boarding party was thin, what with the number of wounded that Prince Rupert’s crew had suffered, and those that remained manning the guns covering the boarding. Still, they were unopposed, and quickly took control of the ship.
Von Spee stood at the gangplank to the wharf. Some of the Princess Charlotte’s crew were running down the wharf. It was too late to catch them.
“They will sound the alarm in the town within minutes,” he said. “We might as well release the lot,” he said to one of his petty officers, who was leading the detail guarding the crew and few passengers who had been rounded up in a search of the ship. They were lined up in a row on the lower promenade deck. Deck crew in blue uniforms, and machinery space crew in overalls, and a couple of dozen passengers in various states of dress and undress. One sheepish looking man and woman were wearing blankets.
“Go on, you are free to go,” he said to the assembled passengers and crew. He said to his petty officer, “Have the other prisoners brought as well. We can get rid of all those extra mouths.” Looking like they were still in a state of disbelief, the passengers and crew of the Princess Charlotte, filed down the gangplank onto the wharf.
The wharf was dominated by a one long peaked-roof warehouse, with Grand Trunk Pacific – Prince Rupert painted on the front. Behind were lines of railway tracks, with clusters of freight cars here and there. At the left side of the dock, to the north, was a wooden ramp wide enough for three wagons abreast, built like a trestle, that led over the tracks and up to the level of the main part of the city. On the other side of the tracks were two multi-story square buildings. One said F.G. Dawson – Fruit and Produce – Wholesale Grocers, the other Kelly Douglas & Co. Ltd. – Wholesale Grocers – The Home of Nabob Brands, up a four story façade.
Beyond, was a dirt bank with exposed rock outcroppings, and a mess of giant stumps. Just visible through the fog were some ornate stone and brick office buildings. The effect, thought Von Spee, was as if a few blocks of San Francisco had appeared in the middle of Anyox. This collision of blasted wilderness and metropolis seemed to be how they did things in Canada.
“Ready the three worst of our wounded for transport. I want to speak to the militia and fisheries officers before we release them.”
https://searcharchives.vancouver.ca...9e0c85-8aee-4f0d-b587-6bf89e94b481-A30018.jpg