"Our Struggle": What If Hitler Had Been a Communist?

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RMcD94

RMcD94

Baron Steakpuncher said:
I'm not talking about that, i'm talking about the whole "ruthless cosmopolitans" "doctors plot" stuff. It also seems to have gotten worse as he got older.
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The Doctor's Plot was likely a way to target Beria. Of course I agree the Jews suffered a lot during Soviet rule, but so did every ethnicity, unfortunately for the Jews they held a lot of positions of influence even later on in the Soviet Union and would of course be impacted by the purges. After it began clear that Israel was not going to be socialist Stalin dropped his pro-Zionist policy and once it was obvious Israel was an American puppet he turned against it. Does that sound like antisemitism? It's not really surprising that he supported bourgeois nationalism when he thought it could advance socialism and then 180'd the moment it was clear that it wouldn't.

Plenty of issues with Stalin but if he was an antisemite it was massively outweighed by his paranoia and geopolitical motivations
 
Nyvis

Nyvis

RMcD94 said:
The Doctor's Plot was likely a way to target Beria. Of course I agree the Jews suffered a lot during Soviet rule, but so did every ethnicity, unfortunately for the Jews they held a lot of positions of influence even later on in the Soviet Union and would of course be impacted by the purges. After it began clear that Israel was not going to be socialist Stalin dropped his pro-Zionist policy and once it was obvious Israel was an American puppet he turned against it. Does that sound like antisemitism? It's not really surprising that he supported bourgeois nationalism when he thought it could advance socialism and then 180'd the moment it was clear that it wouldn't.

Plenty of issues with Stalin but if he was an antisemite it was massively outweighed by his paranoia and geopolitical motivations
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He also did quite a bit of forced relocalization of Jews within the union to my knowledge.
 
Remitonov

Remitonov

Nyvis said:
He also did quite a bit of forced relocalization of Jews within the union to my knowledge.
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He did a lot of forced relocations of a lot of ethnicities he deemed prone to subversion. Germans, Poles, Kalmyks, Balts, Koreans, etc. And that's not counting those in 'safe' ethnic groups that got the stick for various other reasons.

The fact is, Stalin isn't so much an antisemite as a paranoid dictator constantly seeing daggers and twisted smiles on everyone.
 
Aloha

Aloha

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LostInNewDelhi

LostInNewDelhi

Remitonov said:
It's sad how HoI became so gimmicky. Changing governments should be an uphill task bordering on masochism, not a flip of the switch. :V
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Well this is pretty masochistic. That government change triggered a civil war where all but one of his generals defected to the communist rebels. This was his second civil war of that playthrough.
 

SpicyJuan

Ismaili777 said:
They probably would have said that about the Bolsheviks if a white victory occurred. People underestimate popular will in history. Bolsheviks didn't have major backers and infact the entire western world opposed them, yet they created the Soviet Union. People think way too rigidly with alternate history, and I think people who shut off such possibilities would find aspects of this current world (assuming they lived in an alternate world) impossible.
"no way could have the red army won, the entire western powers backed white army and the white army had all of the experienced officers!"
"how did the chinese communists win! they had a fraction of both the manpower and firepower of the nationalists? Even assuming the soviet support they got, this is total asb!"
"how did cuba go communist? Monroe doctrine and foreign economic domination outright prevent that!"
See all three of these movements won due to popular support. Hitler in this scenario retains his excellent oratory skills. However, no Hitler isn't much of an anti semite in this TL. Why do people assume he must retain anti semitism to be a bastard? Mao and Stalin weren't anti semitic, they were bastards.
The Cliche of people assuming this Hitler goes strictly and rigidly Nazbol is kinda annoying.
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Great point, we especially see this when it comes to WWI and WWII, some of the most emotionally charged topics out there, especially when it comes to alternate history. Everyone writes off Barbarossa or Sea Lion as an inevitable failure but IOTL similar implausible feats were accomplished. For example:
“How could the Germans capture all of Norway even Narvik when they don’t have naval superiority? They would’ve been crushed by the Royal Navy!”
“Do you seriously want me to believe that France falls in 6 weeks to a vastly inferior army than the one that tried and failed to defeat it for 4 years?”
“How the hell do these ‘Nazis’ just annex most of Central Europe without war? So you’re just hand-waving away the Western Powers by giving all their leaders a lobotomy?“

Like I said, much of it is politically charged, some of it is simply a lack of imagination. Not to overuse the German example, but I’ve seen it argued that had Germany had all the oil she needed during World War II, not much would’ve changed(!). When people discuss that a reverse Midway, or a more disastrous Pearl Harbor would’ve simply “prolonged the war by 6 months to a year” it seems that they do not even want to think what butterflies this entails.
 

Ismaili777

It may be strange to some, but communist German uniforms would look much like nazi ones.
To all who assumed the fashion relied on Hugo boss, I present you several reichswehr uniforms.
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The one behind on this one. Not in front.
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Bottom line, you may be surprised. Just imagine Wehrmacht with red stars rather the iron cross.
Edit: some may play devils advocate and argue that with the officer Corp gone, it would lose tradition. I counter that by saying much will stay, out of oppurtunism, much like in Russia. Even some of the PRUSSIAN officers will remain. However relative outsiders like Rommel will likely play more leading rolls.
 
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Ismaili777

Aloha said:
nazbol gang
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Although in appearance they are fascistic, this Germany is mostly internationalist from what I’ve gathered. But yes, these uniforms will probably make nazbols smile.
Edit: Note East Germany's uniforms also followed the Prussian tradition, except with a modified stalhelm, because that was too taboo after what Nazi Germany did to the Soviet Union. In this TL, no such event occurs so Prussian tradition remains strong in the uniform, even if many Prussian officers flee (not many will, unless a MAJOR civil war occurs.) Soviet Union even continued much of the Tsarist style.
 
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Tannenberg

I decided to give it a try into how a World War II in this ATL would look like. I have no intention of trying to influence to whatever plans The Red has for the war but its just to make a small writting excercise for fun. For a better mood, imagine it playing it like this scene:



(1943, some place in Downing Steet. A man with a cigar on his hand receives a call)

"I have to admit that my calculations on the Royal Army taking Madrid were very optimistic but the shock effect shows how weak their puppet allies are"

"..."

"The Peninsular Army is still in a very good fighting condition and the retreat was in perfect order. We have to thank the bravery of our forces and, of course, the Portuguese for that."

"..."

"Yes, but..."

"..."

"Look, Mr President. I know the situation in Spain is not the ideal one. The Spanish are not as cooperative as 1808. But once the Canadians arrive..."

"..."

"I know, I know. But the Luftstreitkräft is still trying to dominate our skies. The bravery of our pilots have reduced their strength greatly, but communists are foolish enough to try again. Protecting British soil is our number one priority"

"..."

"The Red Wolves? They are tamed for now. According to our last reports, their losses have doubled last month. We have to thank you for your grateful help in that regard."

"..."

"Yes, but we still hold Malta, the key of the Mediterranean. And we still have complete naval supremacy"

"..."

"There are no problems on Libia for now. Balbo is showing more skill and tact than that fool, Mussolini."

"..."

"We didn't sent Louis Ferdinand to America, Mr President. He insisted that he wanted to rally support against the murderers of his father, even if they had their differences. Whatever he is doing there, he is doing it with his own means"

"..."

"The British economy is already supporting the war effort in a 100%, Mr President. We are hoping that it will get to the German level, very soon. Of course, if it wasn't for that bastard, Stalin..."

"..."

"The British Army is prepared on the eventuality of something like that happening, Mr President. But we'll need bigger numbers if we want to push them back"

"..."

"We hope to have the full support of the American's armies in our fight against totalitarism in Europe very soon, Mr President. The British nation will never fold to the demands of that monster and his croonies"

"..."

"I agree that we shouldn't understimate him. That man has the Devil's charm. His main underling on Spain...Ronnel? Rommel? I think was his name, he is fighting on his side even if he showed support for the Volkhs Front. Can you believe it? That's why we'll never accept any armistice that comes from that lunatic!!!"

"..."

"About the Japanese Empire in the Pacific..."

"..."

"I see, they are still a problem. The Commonwealth is doing anything necessary to support the American war effort in Asia

"..."

"Thank you very much, Mr President. In these dark times for.democracy, every help we receive in our battle against the forces of totalitarism is greatly appreciated"

"..."

"I send my best regards in the name of the British people...President Long"
 
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The Red

Tannenberg said:
I decided to give it a try into how a World War II in this ATL would look like. I have no intention of trying to influence to whatever plans The Red has for the war but its just to make a small writting excercise for fun. For a better mood, imagine it playing it like this scene:
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Thanks for that excellent vignette, it’s always great to see that I’ve got other people’s creative cogs turning. Naturally there are a few things here that aren’t in my plans but I suppose that just means it must take place in the same universe where Skorzeny kidnaps Mussolini!
 

Tannenberg

The Red said:
Thanks for that excellent vignette, it’s always great to see that I’ve got other people’s creative cogs turning. Naturally there are a few things here that aren’t in my plans but I suppose that just means it must take place in the same universe where Skorzeny kidnaps Mussolini!
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Oh, stop you (blushes). Something like Mussolini kidnapped by a Red Skorzeny when he is trying to escape to Malta/Cerdeña so he could face a revolutionary council (Gramsci would be very happy)? I never thought of that before!!! But maybe he is already full reactionary Who knows? Btw I hope we see some airborne action of the Red Parachutte units. Maybe Red Hitler will see more potential on them that OTL :)
 
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