King Theodore's Corsica
- Thread starter Carp
- Start date
Interesting that the Maddalenas have stayed with Genoa. Makes sense I suppose given we were told their only inhabitants were shephards from bonifacio that if bonifacio remained genoan they would too.
In terms of characters I'd be interested to see turn up in part 2 (corsica at peace: nation bulding), I think there's certainly a chance that noted enlightenment figures would want to vist the island, espacially those like voltaire and franklin who wrote about theodore in otl, but I'd love a mention or role for the author of 'memoirs of corsica' who in otl but presumably not ttl claimed falsely to be Theodore's son.
In terms of characters I'd be interested to see turn up in part 2 (corsica at peace: nation bulding), I think there's certainly a chance that noted enlightenment figures would want to vist the island, espacially those like voltaire and franklin who wrote about theodore in otl, but I'd love a mention or role for the author of 'memoirs of corsica' who in otl but presumably not ttl claimed falsely to be Theodore's son.
I am wondering now if a "French marriage" could be an option. Not with the Bourbons of course. But some French noblewoman could give Louis XIV the impression to further extend the grip on Corsica and Theodore through the dowry issue to repay part of the loan.
Well French influence would remain no matter what, for the simple fact Corsica would stay on its edge. At the best could change the terms of relationship between France and Corsica, depending mostly what would happen and who would rule in the former.
Well French influence would remain no matter what, for the simple fact Corsica would stay on its edge. At the best could change the terms of relationship between France and Corsica, depending mostly what would happen and who would rule in the former.
Theodore would prefer to avoid that, I think, in order to balance influences. He likely has little desire to be seen as a French pawn, which incidentally he clearly is not.
I had another thought, however. If he dies without issue during the SYW's equivalent, assuming the alliances ITTL look like historical ones (which is very possible still)... there's an obvious French-aligned claimant, an obvious Prussian-aligned one, and at least two "wildcards" (one with some vague British connection)... a War of Corsican Succession seems possible if things are not managed well earlier.
I suspect this is not possible, and probably not necessary - after all, it was quite common for foreign rulers to hold non-sovereign estates within the HRE, like the Duke of Modena and his (ITTL) recently-seized estates in Hungary. Nor does one need to be technically in the HRE to be an ally/client of the emperor.
It's worth noting that the Emperor is not the direct liege lord of the Neuhoff-Pungelscheid barons; that is, they do not have imperial immediacy. Their domains are (as far as I can tell) entirely within the County of Mark, which was acquired by Brandenburg and thus by the King of Prussia. It's possible that Prussia's occupation or seizure of those lands could provide diplomatic leverage against Corsica (or the Prince of Capraia in particular), but since Corsica and Prussia have basically no geopolitical interest in each other whatsoever, it's hard for me to imagine a scenario in which this would be necessary.
You mean "Colonel Frederick, Prince of Caprera?" My assumption would be that he finds some different grift, as passing himself as Theodore's son will hardly work ITTL. Since we don't really know who he was, it's hard to say what he might have done instead without the opportunity to latch on to Theodore's legacy, such as it was.
It's unclear whether it would have mattered. Even if the city fell, Chauvelin might still have insisted on its retrocession to Genoa to throw them a bone. After all, the preliminary treaty originally called for Capraia to be retained by Genoa despite it being in Corsican hands. Monaco was really Chauvelin's show, and what he wanted was arguably more important than the actual leverage either side possessed.
In any case, Genoa's hold on Bonifacio is quite weak without Capraia, and if the two sides do ever go to war again the Corsicans will have a substantial advantage. The question is when an opportunity will arise for Corsica to make that move without bringing the wrath of the great powers down on their heads.
I wondered about why Theodore didn't stall until Bonifacio fell too, but the impression I got from the post was that the French were always going to insist on Genoa being given something back to spare her blushes, and it was more palatable to Theodore to let them keep something they were already holding than it would have been to return something conquered from them - especially with the risk that the people who had conquered the territory might refuse his orders to hand it back (Corsicans are not Prussians when it comes to obeying orders it seems...).
How much hinterland does Genoa hold? Does the garrison control its own water supplies and at least some food producing areas or is Genoa's area of control limited to the city walls? Or was this not specified in the treaty and will be the subject of countless arguments down the line?
One additional thought - the French loan. Is the money being sent directly from France to Genoa, or is it going to Corsica first? Because in the latter case there could be some scope for mischief. For that matter, is there any physical money changing hands at all or are Genoa's debts to France (I assume these are considerable) simply being written down by 15M livres?
Presumably this was stated in somewhat more detail in the treaty itself. The territory includes some of Bonifacio's hinterland, an area roughly equivalent to the Genoese area of control on this map, but since the region is almost totally barren and uninhabited the question of where exactly the division falls is mostly academic. The hinterland possesses a few streams and some olive groves, but the city relies on food imports from elsewhere (and always did). Bonifacio was virtually an island before, and continues to be virtually an island now, which is one reason (aside from the hostile population) that Theodore is quite okay with leaving it to the Genoese for the time being. The only thing that's changed for them post-independence is that the nearest friendly port is now Genoa rather than any of the ports of Corsica. This poses no great problem in peacetime, but will make supplying and holding the city much more difficult in wartime, particularly against the Corsicans who have much shorter supply lines.
Genoa probably does not have debts to France, although it has debts to French nobles, bankers, and so on. Genoa received subsidies from the Bourbon powers during the war, but these were not loans. The "Monaco Loan" differs in that it is actually a direct loan from the French treasury to the government of Corsica, which allows the French government to set whatever terms it wants (or rather, whatever terms they specified in the secret treaty articles). This was occasionally done, for instance when Franz Stefan (then Grand Duke of Tuscany) loaned a considerable amount of money to his father-in-law the Emperor to assist him in the Austro-Turkish war.
Usually such inter-state loans and subsidies were paid in actual specie. In the case of the Monaco Loan, it will not actually go to Corsica, but will pass briefly into nominal Corsican possession - most likely, the money goes to Monaco, the Corsican representative in Monaco signs a receipt of delivery, and then immediately signs it over to the Genoese government, all under Chauvelin's watchful eye. You don't fool around with 15 million livres in specie.
Isaac Beach
Banned
Out of curiosity, I don't know the financial optics of the Dutch Corsican Company, but would it not be possible for Theodore to get credit from them in order to pay off the loan from the French and so shift the debt onto a third party that isn't liable to threaten Corsican sovereignty at a later date?
I think he just saw a prize he's been fighting for for over a decade being offered to him and grabbed it.
And saddle his realm with a huge debt, which is clearly politically driven? It doesn't sound like Theodore.
Yes, he's very clearly a man who is very careful about not being saddled with debt. That's why he spent his entire life otl dodging creditors from all the times he borrowed money off people that he couldn't repay.
I don't think Theodore cares much about debts, to be honest. He's always seemed quite willing to make agreements and then try to modify or ignore them as convenient.
One very fine idea that would work in this timeline would be to grant Corsica to Felipe. That makes an independent Corsica, and the Powers will not really care that Theodore is not the king (or that Felipe will find it quite hard to reign effectively).
Savoy makes a tiny bit of sense here since the Dauphin is (in name) ruler of the Dauphiné, which is right next door to Savoy. It's a pity that such a grand swap is utterly impossible however.
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So I found this timeline I wanna say about two or three weeks ago and I've been reading it at a somewhat fast somewhat moderate pace and I just finished reading the whole thread. And I wanna say this is an absolutely amazing timeline and I love that I ran into it while I was researching some Corsican history(my matrilineal great great grandfather is an immigrant from Corsica, which is why my family despite being culturally Puerto Rican and fluent in Spanish and English looks white with light brown or blonde hair and some even have green eyes) but anyways this is an amazing timeline and I can't wait to see how the new kingdom of Corsica deals with all the problems that are about to blow up in its face. Also can someone give the full names of all of Theodore's nephews along with the corsicanized version because I totally forgot all of them except Matthias von drost/ don matteo/prince of Porto vecchio
Edit: also some of the stuff I read in this timeline is absolutely hilarious with some of my favorites being when the Dutch heard the French were coming and so sent a whole fleet of weapons to the corsicans,
That time the Greeks called the corsicans "poncho-wearing goats" and the corsicans in turn burned down their whole village,
And lastly that time an Austrian soldier chugged a bottle of ink cause he was too excited to start the plundering and drinking early
Edit: also some of the stuff I read in this timeline is absolutely hilarious with some of my favorites being when the Dutch heard the French were coming and so sent a whole fleet of weapons to the corsicans,
That time the Greeks called the corsicans "poncho-wearing goats" and the corsicans in turn burned down their whole village,
And lastly that time an Austrian soldier chugged a bottle of ink cause he was too excited to start the plundering and drinking early
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Did you make thisHAIL, HAIL, HAIL TO CORSICA!
HAIL, HAIL, HAIL TO HER KING!
HAIL, HAIL, HAIL TO THEODORE! LONG MAY HE REIGN!
no, found it on the kingdom of corsica wiki page. full credit to whoever made it.
I was actually trying to find the picture used on the title post to put here, but found that.