King Theodore's Corsica
- Thread starter Carp
- Start date
Md139115
Banned
I think I have something...
Fair warning, this was done quickly, I don’t know a word of Corsican, and I’m not that good at matching lyrics to melody.
Fair warning, this was done quickly, I don’t know a word of Corsican, and I’m not that good at matching lyrics to melody.
Evviva U Ré
(To the tune of God Save the King)
Danu salvà u ré,
Allora u nostru ré
Evviva u ré!
U nostru protettore
Di a vita è diritti,
O luda u so nome,
Evviva u ré!
O Corsica mare,
I to bandiera
Più persone!
Pó esse famose,
Vostru nome chante,
Mariri Genuu pudete!
Evviva du ré!
~
God save our noble king,
Long live our glorious king,
Hurrah for the king!
Our protector, true as light,
Guardian of our lives and rights,
O praise his name of might,
Hurrah for the king!
O mother Corsica,
Long may thy banner wave,
No longer blind!
May thou grow in fame,
May they all chant thy name,
May Genoa die in shame!
Hurrah for the king!
(To the tune of God Save the King)
Danu salvà u ré,
Allora u nostru ré
Evviva u ré!
U nostru protettore
Di a vita è diritti,
O luda u so nome,
Evviva u ré!
O Corsica mare,
I to bandiera
Più persone!
Pó esse famose,
Vostru nome chante,
Mariri Genuu pudete!
Evviva du ré!
~
God save our noble king,
Long live our glorious king,
Hurrah for the king!
Our protector, true as light,
Guardian of our lives and rights,
O praise his name of might,
Hurrah for the king!
O mother Corsica,
Long may thy banner wave,
No longer blind!
May thou grow in fame,
May they all chant thy name,
May Genoa die in shame!
Hurrah for the king!
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Thanks for your support! Although it's taken a little longer than I expected, I'm glad we've finally managed to make it this far.
There are some post-independence plotlines to wrap up. After that, my initial plan is to approach updates more thematically rather than strictly chronologically - so we may have updates covering the economy, church relations, internal politics, the army, and so on over the next few years.
Possibly. The other option for an "independence day" is April 15th, the date of Theodore's election and coronation in 1736 when the kingdom formally came into being. After all, the US celebrates when they established the constitution, not when the Treaty of Paris was signed.
None. Normally he would have been the heir of the Neuhoff-Pungelscheid estates, but he was made retroactively illegitimate when his father's marriage was (posthumously) declared invalid. They went to his uncle Franz Bernhard instead. Although it hasn't been mentioned yet in the thread, Franz Bernhard died in 1747 (as OTL), which means that the Neuhoff lands are now the property of his only living son, Friedrich von Neuhoff zu Pungelscheid, Prince of Capraia. I don't have a lot of detailed information about the Neuhoff-Pungelscheid holdings or incomes, but Franz Bernhard was described as holding the towns of Pungelscheid, Ebach, Gelinde, Rade, Sassenrade, and Muckhausen, as well as being Drost (bailiff) of Nienrade, Altena, and Iserlohn.
In terms of personal wealth, Pungelscheid/Capraia is clearly superior to his fellow German cousins, who don't really have their own sources of income. The Prince of Morosaglia (Rauschenburg) has only the single barony of Rauschenburg, while Porto Vecchio (Drost) has no estates at all, although he may have acquired some land locally as a dowry from the Colonna-Bozzi clan.
There are some post-independence plotlines to wrap up. After that, my initial plan is to approach updates more thematically rather than strictly chronologically - so we may have updates covering the economy, church relations, internal politics, the army, and so on over the next few years.
Possibly. The other option for an "independence day" is April 15th, the date of Theodore's election and coronation in 1736 when the kingdom formally came into being. After all, the US celebrates when they established the constitution, not when the Treaty of Paris was signed.
None. Normally he would have been the heir of the Neuhoff-Pungelscheid estates, but he was made retroactively illegitimate when his father's marriage was (posthumously) declared invalid. They went to his uncle Franz Bernhard instead. Although it hasn't been mentioned yet in the thread, Franz Bernhard died in 1747 (as OTL), which means that the Neuhoff lands are now the property of his only living son, Friedrich von Neuhoff zu Pungelscheid, Prince of Capraia. I don't have a lot of detailed information about the Neuhoff-Pungelscheid holdings or incomes, but Franz Bernhard was described as holding the towns of Pungelscheid, Ebach, Gelinde, Rade, Sassenrade, and Muckhausen, as well as being Drost (bailiff) of Nienrade, Altena, and Iserlohn.
In terms of personal wealth, Pungelscheid/Capraia is clearly superior to his fellow German cousins, who don't really have their own sources of income. The Prince of Morosaglia (Rauschenburg) has only the single barony of Rauschenburg, while Porto Vecchio (Drost) has no estates at all, although he may have acquired some land locally as a dowry from the Colonna-Bozzi clan.
I wonder if the anniversary of the beginning of the rebellion back in 1729 might be a separate holiday.
Love this, your lyrics seem to get better which each reading!
A thought: as "God Save the King" was created in the aftermath of the '45 as a loyalist song, and I don't know whether that happened TTL, Corsica could have allohistorical "dibs" on the tune; the corsicans could have come up with it first.
There's really no single day you can indisputably point to and say "this is when the revolution started." The idea that the rebellion started in October of 1729 is based on the "Cardone incident," in which a poor old man named Cardone tried to pay his taxes but was refused and threatened by the Lieutenant of Corti because one of his coins was under-weight, and subsequently the people of Bozio decided that they would not pay the due seini. But aside from the fact that this story might just be local legend, it's not associated with any particular date in October. Nor is there any "Lexington" moment when you can definitively say that the first shots of the Revolution were fired. The Genoese reported "disturbances" and some soldiers were disarmed by the locals in late 1729, which may have involved some gunfire, but the first real armed clashes between groups of Corsicans and Genoese soldiers didn't happen until February of 1730.
Aside from Coronation Day (April 15th) and Ratification Day (October 12th), the only other day I can think of would be January 30th, when in 1735 the constitution of Costa's "Corsican Commonwealth" was promulgated, as this was the first formal declaration of Corsican independence. I suspect that's an unlikely choice, but it might serve as a holiday for a Corsican Republic if the monarchy is overthrown at some future point.
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There was a lot of comparison to the USA but like Carp has said earlier, Corsica doesn't have the infrastructure that the usa did. There's no history of local government, of newspapers and civil society, and most of the corsicans who will remain will be those excluded from power in the genoan system. It's going to struggle a lot more. It's also a lot smaller and less powerful.
Corsica reminds me more than anything of Haiti, with the debt to France, the joke monarchy and the foreign germanic merchants taking over the export buisness at favourable terms. Of course Corsica has a lot less problems than Haiti, it's people are seen as savage but they're still white europeans and, apart from a few exceptions freed by Tunis or from genoan galleys, they weren't actual slaves so they're more educated.
More to the point, Haiti needed a full change in it's economy in that the current model of intensive farming for cash crops was unacceptable to the common people, despite elite attempts to continue it, whereas that won't be the case for Corsica.
To a certain extent, isn't Corsica going to be fucked over by the diplomatic revoloution to the same extent that Sardinia was? I.E. instead of two power blocks there's going to be France, Spain and Austria as a united front in Italy and very little chance to play two sides against each other to get a better deal.
Obviously as an Island, Britain has more power to intervene in Corsica but well see the fate of Minorca as an example of the limits of british naval power in the med during this time period.
Corsica reminds me more than anything of Haiti, with the debt to France, the joke monarchy and the foreign germanic merchants taking over the export buisness at favourable terms. Of course Corsica has a lot less problems than Haiti, it's people are seen as savage but they're still white europeans and, apart from a few exceptions freed by Tunis or from genoan galleys, they weren't actual slaves so they're more educated.
More to the point, Haiti needed a full change in it's economy in that the current model of intensive farming for cash crops was unacceptable to the common people, despite elite attempts to continue it, whereas that won't be the case for Corsica.
To a certain extent, isn't Corsica going to be fucked over by the diplomatic revoloution to the same extent that Sardinia was? I.E. instead of two power blocks there's going to be France, Spain and Austria as a united front in Italy and very little chance to play two sides against each other to get a better deal.
Obviously as an Island, Britain has more power to intervene in Corsica but well see the fate of Minorca as an example of the limits of british naval power in the med during this time period.
What are the odds the diplomatic revolution still goes down the same as in our history?
If the Corsicans had delayed the negotiations a bit longer, could they have gotten away with Bonifacio too? The citadel was likely to fall after all.
I appreciate, however, that recognition was more important than Bonifacio anyway, and that dragging feet too much would have irked the French.
I imagine that Bonifacio would remain a sticking point in the future, however, with future Corsican governments desiring to acquire it if an opportunity presents.
The debt is a serious matter. It might seriously hamper any attempt at future development. The country is already cash-strapped, and one of its main revenue sources is already committed to servicing the debts to NCC.
While France is using the debt politically and is not interested in strangling Corsican economy, Theodore will have to use part of his meager revenues to service this. Perspectives for capital investment are poor (and there must other creditors as well). Chestnuts are not exactly a cash crop.
I appreciate, however, that recognition was more important than Bonifacio anyway, and that dragging feet too much would have irked the French.
I imagine that Bonifacio would remain a sticking point in the future, however, with future Corsican governments desiring to acquire it if an opportunity presents.
The debt is a serious matter. It might seriously hamper any attempt at future development. The country is already cash-strapped, and one of its main revenue sources is already committed to servicing the debts to NCC.
While France is using the debt politically and is not interested in strangling Corsican economy, Theodore will have to use part of his meager revenues to service this. Perspectives for capital investment are poor (and there must other creditors as well). Chestnuts are not exactly a cash crop.
I'd say pretty good. The same drivers are still in place for the four major powers.
I'd say, pretty high. All the underlying reasons are more or less there:
- Austria's vengefulness against treacherous Prussia.
- Prussia seeking security against that.
- Britain focusing on rivalry with France and misunderstanding both of the above.
- France not caring that much about the Austrian threat anymore, and viceversa.
- Italy no longer a major bone of contention as Madrid and Vienna are content of their respective postions there for now.
The Diplomatic Revolution IOTL should be understood in my opinion as largely the product of Austrian diplomacy aimed at regaining Silesia, and Frederick's reactions to it (in the form of the Westminster Convention).
There are going to be butterflies in the Austrian court ITTL, but probably not enough to make hostility toward Prussia much less of a concern. While the Revolution is not really set in stone, its logic is compelling enough to potentially apply ITTL.
I liked how you solved the matter of Corsican independence. A political realignment, territorial issues not solved, a debt that probably will create financial troubles... It seems something that came from several examples of OTL (look Latin America and several African countries). It looks more authentic than a "triumphant Corsica".
Reading some more about the Diplomatic Revolution, I am struck by how much unlikely it seemed at the time, until it happened.
There was considerable diplomatic inertia at play and, while I repeat myself in saying that its logic was quite compelling to all the main actors involved, it seems clear that it was not a guaranteed outcome. France and Britain were both focused on fighting each other and the steps they took in the alliance reversal aimed at keeping the peace in Germany, while both Austria and Prussia, for different reasons, wanted no such thing.
The cross-purposed nature of the whole thing makes it possible a variety of other outcomes ITTL, especially if Frederick avoids doing something rash such as his invasion of Saxony. However, the OTL realignment made sense enough to remain a realistic path.
There was considerable diplomatic inertia at play and, while I repeat myself in saying that its logic was quite compelling to all the main actors involved, it seems clear that it was not a guaranteed outcome. France and Britain were both focused on fighting each other and the steps they took in the alliance reversal aimed at keeping the peace in Germany, while both Austria and Prussia, for different reasons, wanted no such thing.
The cross-purposed nature of the whole thing makes it possible a variety of other outcomes ITTL, especially if Frederick avoids doing something rash such as his invasion of Saxony. However, the OTL realignment made sense enough to remain a realistic path.
The invasion of Saxony was in response to Austrian war plans IIRC, and very much in the context of the Diplomatic Revolution. Frederick himself was actually not predisposed against a French alliance, though he preferred Britain; that is the most probable result of avoiding the Diplomatic Revolution, and probably requires continuing Austrian-English alliance in addition to tensions between the Bourbons and Hapsburgs.
It seems reasonable to me at least if both were national holidays, albeit the date of the Treaty of Monaco makes more sense as the official independence day.
Hypothetically, might this be part of the carrot that whoever controls the HRE at some further date might wave in front of Corsica - Corsica officially becoming part of the HRE, switching patron from France to the Kaiser and the Pungelsheid holdings becoming part of the Corsican patrimony?
I definitely see Austria wanting a rematch with Prussia and reaching some form of accord with France, but what drivers did Britain have to ally with a king known primarily for being a treacherous opportunist? What reason would Britain have to ally with Prussia here?
I'd say that seeing an Austro-Prussian war which does not involve the western powers is just as likely as the OTL Seven Years' War.
Yes, but it was what solidified the reversal. France had no interest in joining Austria against Prussia, and would probably not have done so without Frederick acting first. The Franco-Austrian alliance was, in France's eyes, a way to be free to fight Britain without worrying about Germany. Turned out quite the opposite.
Same as OTL: protecting Hannover and distracting the French (since Austria is no longer doing that).
Md139115
Banned
I just had a very odd thought:
Co-monarchs existed all the time back in antiquity, and up to the present in the case of Andorra, so why didn’t Theodore attempt to propose that for lighter terms in the treaty?
The Doges of Genoa could theoretically remain Kings of Corsica, keeping the royal style, if not the substance, but actual power would be held by their “co-monarch” Theodore and his successors. It might have significantly reduced the debt Corsica owes.
Co-monarchs existed all the time back in antiquity, and up to the present in the case of Andorra, so why didn’t Theodore attempt to propose that for lighter terms in the treaty?
The Doges of Genoa could theoretically remain Kings of Corsica, keeping the royal style, if not the substance, but actual power would be held by their “co-monarch” Theodore and his successors. It might have significantly reduced the debt Corsica owes.