I suggest stepping away from the thread for a few days, so as to avoid the temptation of responding further to this thread. I would have pointed out that the stuff you mention from the West as seen negatively, but to bring up the thing about reputations for Chinese compared to non-Arab/Berber Africans... then again, some would count the Taureg as both, which is clear by just seeing a picture of them. Anyways, what right does Algeria have to any of that land? They got it solely because the French had it in the same unit. The Taureg have likely been there a thousand years, not to mention all the other groups there. Also, I don't see any mention of where these people would be driven. Can't get be many places worse to live than the Sahara, but in a scenario like this I am sure a place could be found.
Map Thread XVIII
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Going to give you an opportunity to expand on this. You have until 17:50 ZULU (GMT) to do so.
Augustine Sedira
Banned
As far as I know, I haven't said anything factually incorrect. I have stated that I believe that displacing populations is wrong but that people have throughout history and still do so. The reason I mentioned the Chinese and Sub-Saharans is to show that Algerians are not xenophobic to all groups but rather to certain groups. We must remember that such attitudes exist. Algeria's right to the land is the fact that they have controlled it since the French left the region. Such a logic might work in the West but definitely not in Algeria. In a hypothetical situation where the Algerian government is pushing the Tuaregs out of the region, I would assume that they would be pushed into Mali and Niger since those regions have sizeable Tuareg populations and maybe this boost in population might allow the creation of a Tuareg state in Azawad or Agadez. What I hope I managed to get across is that the attitudes towards population expulsion are different in Algeria than the west.
Except the Tuaregs were there hundreds of years before the French (and by extension modern Algeria) and have a long history of peaceful cooperation and trade with the coastal and mountain Berbers, with whom they share common ancestry, language, and religion. Even today, Tuaregs are still important in local trade and transport networks.
There are no positive reasons for Algerians to discriminate against Tuaregs and lots of economic and social downsides for doing so.
This is the map of January 1, 2063 - the year after World War III ended. The US committed horrendous atrocities akin to Nazi Germany in World War II.
Link to the timeline is in my signature.
Link to the timeline is in my signature.
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Ephraim Ben Raphael
Banned
This is the map of January 1, 2063 - the year after World War III ended. The US committed horrendous atrocities akin to Nazi Germany in World War II.
Is this AH or FH? Because those German borders seem a little unlikely in an FH scenario, unless the Germans decide to suddenly become super revanchist.
Who did America genocide btw?
Augustine Sedira
Banned
Greeks used to live in Anatolia before the Turks. Istanbul was once Constantinople. Before the USA there was the Amerindians. Before the Tuaregs, there was possibly a Berber population who were replaced by Cushitic peoples who adopted the Berber languages as well as some parts of Berber culture. My point is that using such logic is weak especially for Algeria.
If the Sahara was turning green, there will be benefits in an expulsion of the Tuaregs in the mind of your average Algerian. If the Sahara is still the desert it is, nobody cares about kicking out a bunch of tribes from the desert since that is the attitude many have of the Tuaregs. We must also remember that population removal is seen as positive as some and it can become a major thing in just a few decades. Take the Nazis, the Soviets, the Romans, the Incans, the Americans, the Israelis and the Zulus. A terrible part of history it is but it is not something seen universally as bad. We must, after all, remember that we live in a world where some groups see rape, genocide, slavery and other terrible acts as okay. Once again, I am sure we can all condemn these acts. We must also accept that the world is a cruel place and the West is a beacon in the dark.
So what is the point I'm trying to make? Algerians and to a wider extent, the East, does not think the same as the West. I am myself from the East but grew up in the West so I am somewhere in between. This means that in the west I am more conservative than the Conservative Party of Britain and possibly even the Republicans yet I would be seen as an extremely liberal individual in the Muslim World.
Germany restored the Kaiserreich - and regained some lands from Poland - after a hefty crisis/civil war in Eastern Europe in the mid-2020s. And no, this Germany is not far-right. Rather, the Kaiserreich was restored to prevent far-right takeover.
No specific group like "mostly Jews". They genocided any opponents of the regime, Mormons, LGBTQI+, Muslim Americans, Hispanics, anybody left of the Party (actually Coalition) line, and many more groups. Based on being "sinners", "morally corrupt" or "traitors to the nation". But every group also saw collaboration with the regime.
Also, the regime was not (clearly) racist, especially not towards blacks and African-Americans. Instead, African-Americans were some of the most devout supporters of the regime, but could also end up in a "Purity Camp" if they opposed the regime. It was ultra-Christian fundamentalist extremist.
The problem is not whether your views are liberal or conservative, the problem is that what you're proposing is ethnic cleansing, the forceful removal of a people from their land by virtue of their heritage and culture. It was fucked up when the US did it, it's fucked up in this scenario. There is no "group" that views rape, genocide, or slavery as okay, there are people in power that think such things are okay. Remove the power and their positions on those issues will change real quick. No one says "welp, I guess I'm going to get raped now and my people killed en masse. Them's the breaks." That's not a cultural value, that's a means to an end when one is capable of terrible cruelty with no visible consequences.
Oh FFS!
Are actually LOOKING to get Banned?
If so, just say that is the case and save everyone a lot of grief. Ethnic cleansing isn't going to EVER be okay.
Monstrous behavior, such as murder and displacement, IS seen as universally bad. Proof: Zero groups want it to happen to them. There is no divide between "East and West" when it comes to human nature. The only difference is that through ignorance and hate, some are unfortunately compelled to aid and commit acts of barbarism.
This does not mean that any group of people are essentially barbaric and should ever be viewed as such.
Just because people have made mistakes before doesn't excuse repeating the mistake nor does it mean we shouldn't take responsibility for it.
What you put forward was never okay and will never be okay, and even those who did it never believed it was okay, however sometimes politics can make people forget to apply the values they believe to the actions they are doing.
But the way you talk makes is seem like ignorance can and will justify bad behavior, and that since people can never learn or improve, we can accept them keeping their "point of view".
Augustine Sedira
Banned
My God. You seem to ignore that I've said it is bad. I'm not going to engage in this conversation any more.
Link to the relevant map? He made such nice stuff, though I don't recall any new stuff for at least fourteen years. Also, the most colorful Cyprus I have yet to see.
wait, how did the French ever get to Oregon in the same place? It is a long canoe trip from Montreal or New Orleans. Merely a
leisurely row from St. Louis, of course.
And there are non-American survivors how...?
oh dear. Just two days back Emus take over Australia, and now we have a Mosquito wank. Almost wish you had this set thirty years before, so we could see how they effected the War on Drugs.
Don't think you can just walk away from a moderator like that.
damein fisher
Banned
Sorry to say, but if the Mod wants to keep you dig your hole, you're digging that hole; to end this today, either accept a ban or just say whatever you think CalBear wants to hear. You're in trouble.
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