Which would not happen due to Bobby being more reluctant and unwilling to run. Though, I do like the idea of that.
Blue Skies in Camelot: An Alternate 60's and Beyond
- Thread starter President_Lincoln
- Start date
Which would not happen due to Bobby being more reluctant and unwilling to run. Though, I do like the idea of that.
So a crazy thought just occurred to me, related to the Charles Manson murders and how they might be affected by events in this timeline when it gets to 1969. Now with the Hippie Movement going in a different direction, it's entirely possible that some of his OTL followers don't join him, like Susan Atkins, (who admitted to two of her cell mates after she got arrested for a different crime she was involved in the murders) and Linda Kasabian (who fled the Manson family and became a key witness in the trial). Him having different followers itself might wipe away some of his murders, like that of Sharon Tate (it'd be nice by the way if she survived in ITTL), could help him maybe being able to get away for a bit longer, which means his 'Families' murder spree could likely go on for more months or even years (I doubt he'd be able to last more than two years at most being being caught, and maybe not even that long). Two interesting possibilities to consider is that, for one, one of his followers, Lynette Fromme, tried to assassinate Gerald Ford in 1975 in OTL, and it'd be fairly interesting if the Manson family attempts a similar presidential assassination in this alternate timeline and succeeds. The other thing to consider is that even if Sharon Tate lives, it's always possible someone else who's really famous ends up meeting her fate in ITTL.
Also, if Sharon Tate does live, I hope she catches Roman Polanski being the pedophile that he is in the act and he goes to jail as a result, and doesn't spend decades having escaped justice.
Also, if Sharon Tate does live, I hope she catches Roman Polanski being the pedophile that he is in the act and he goes to jail as a result, and doesn't spend decades having escaped justice.
I have to agree with @TheImperialTheorist on this one
Bobby will finish out Jack's second term as Secretary of Defense and then probably have to do some soul searching before he considers his next calling. I will guarantee that his career in politics won't be finished permanently in '68 But no more than that for now...Excellent analysis once again, Nerdman! I can say that you're picking up on a trail that I've been thinking of myself
The Manson Murders, as terrible as they are, are not as easily avoidable as some other crimes, and they will likely play a (albeit different) role ITTL.
AeroTheZealousOne
Monthly Donor
A little late, but I take solace in the fact that a majority of Bob Dylan's hits aren't butterflied by his untimely death. Marilyn Monroe in The Graduate? Wow, didn't see that coming.
In spite of this, she still won't be telling Ben one word, just one word: Plastics.
In spite of this, she still won't be telling Ben one word, just one word: Plastics.
Excellent update!
Marilyn a mom and soon to star in The Graduate. I sense an Oscar in her future.
Elvis and Jimi is a match made in rock n' roll heaven. But having the great Chet Atkins (one of my personal favorite guitar players) as a music producer is genius.
And I'll echo everyone else's thoughts about the tragic loss of Bob Dylan.
As for the next update, which I eagerly await, if it is about Bill & Hillary I wonder if you'll keep her as a Republican because in OTL she stumped for Eugene McCarthy in '68.
Marilyn a mom and soon to star in The Graduate. I sense an Oscar in her future.
Elvis and Jimi is a match made in rock n' roll heaven. But having the great Chet Atkins (one of my personal favorite guitar players) as a music producer is genius.
And I'll echo everyone else's thoughts about the tragic loss of Bob Dylan.
As for the next update, which I eagerly await, if it is about Bill & Hillary I wonder if you'll keep her as a Republican because in OTL she stumped for Eugene McCarthy in '68.
Thank you, as always, Sith Lord!
I'm really glad you enjoyed it. May I also compliment you on being an Atkins fan! The dude could really play. A very interesting point about Hillary and her uncertainty about political affiliation... Even if not in the Friday update, it could very well play a role in things to come. Stay tuned 
So I just realized a issue with the NASA crew working along with the Russians.
Much of Groups 1-3 were ex military, and some flew in Korea. There might be some.... tensions.
Much of Groups 1-3 were ex military, and some flew in Korea. There might be some.... tensions.
An excellent point.
The gesture of a joint mission to the Moon makes for magnificent politics, but a bit of a practical nightmare.I mean, heck, as it was, the originals were Navy/Marines/Chair Force, so there was always some tension. This just amps it up, a lot.An excellent point.
Very true. That's something I will definitely hope to cover in the next Space Race update, when we get there.
Add hawkish conservatives and a Cold War, and you get a recipe for a potential political disaster.
Chapter 23
Chapter 23: Strangers in the Night - Two Americans at a Crossroads
Enrolling at Wellesley College, a private women’s liberal arts school just west of Boston in the fall of 1965, young Hillary Rodham was already making waves in the intellectual quarter of the student body there. Born and raised in Chicago, Illinois, Rodham had grown up in the mold of an ideal suburbanite daughter by the standards of her time. Participating in softball and swimming, and earning countless merit badges as a girl scout, Rodham developed an early interest in politics which manifested in a position on student council throughout High School. This interest was fostered and encouraged by her father and high school history teacher, both of whom were fervent Republicans and Anti-Communists. Throughout her secondary education, Barry Goldwater’s book Conscience of a Conservative was a staple of Rodham’s backpack loadout, and when Barry ran for President in 1964, young Hillary was one of many “Goldwater Girls” who signed up to volunteer for his campaign.
Of course Goldwater’s candidacy that year was doomed. Nelson Rockefeller overcame his infidelity issue and managed to take the GOP nomination for himself, something that Hillary’s father, Hugh felt was “a damn tragedy.” For her part, Hillary felt somewhat relieved that Barry hadn’t gotten the nomination after all. Though she maintained the outward image of a devout conservative, within herself Hillary felt a growing conflict and awareness that perhaps her own political beliefs did not quite align with her father’s. More and more, she found herself questioning his hardline attitude at the dinner table, and sympathizing with the plight of women and African-Americans involved in the movement for Civil Rights. She summarized her feelings best to a friend and suitemate a few weeks after arriving at Wellesley: “I feel that I’m a mind-conservative, but a heart-liberal.”
“Are you a Democrat?” Her friend asked, trying to help Hillary figure her alignment out. “There’s nothing wrong with being a different party from your folks, happens all the time.”
That’s not it. Hillary knew. She couldn’t abide the recklessness of big government and the excess of the Berkeley type protests sweeping the country. Whenever she saw a protest at her own college, unless it was about women’s rights, she felt a compulsive roll of her eyes coming on. “I just want to be a Republican who believes in smaller, more efficient government but more progressive social policy!” She burst out, frustrated to her friend. “Rockefeller’s got the right idea, I think. But he’s too sleazy and self-interested.” She leapt up onto her dorm room bed and sighed. “Why can’t we have another Dewey or an Eisenhower in this Grand Old Party?” She threw up her hands. “Either it’s Goldwater, who’s too far right or Rockefeller and his ilk, and they’re knee deep in corruption.”
Her friend, unsure of what to say, stood and headed for the door. She had a date that night and she wasn’t going to miss it talking politics with a girl she’d only just met. “I don’t know, Hillary. Maybe you ought to run or something. Do like Smith did and show the boys how it’s done. Heck, her campaign was successful enough to get her on the ticket! Imagine how far our generation can go if we put her minds to it.”
Holy hell. Hillary realized. She’s right. No more did Rodham have to sit around and hope that some man was going to come along with just the right message and personal credentials for political office. She would not change majors, as she was briefly considering. Political science was ideal for someone who wanted to study law and one day craft legislation themselves. Yes. She grinned, excitement building inside her. She didn’t have to switch parties or do something dramatic to achieve the ends she wanted, there could be a place for her in the Republican party, after all. I’ll be a Rockefeller Republican for more than just the country-club members. She vowed. Small, reasonable government that hears the plight of the common man and woman, and endorses moderate, but steady social change. She wouldn’t attend any rallies like the liberals did on campus, but she would write editorials, call congressmen, and before long, seek to right any wrongs herself. A centrist crusader had an excellent ring for her, she decided. The only issue now was how to get there.
By the end of her freshman year at Wellesley, Rodham would serve as President of the college’s Young Republicans, the leader of the club’s “Rockefeller-Republican” faction. Throughout the ‘66 midterms, she and her fellow moderates would run an extensive letter writing and fundraising campaign for John Lindsay, moderate Republican candidate for Mayor of New York City and then Massachusetts Attorney General Edward Brooke, who, in a landmark election, would become the first African-American elected to the United States Senate by popular vote. In a private letter penned in the aftermath of the GOP’s success that year, Brooke wrote that “without the help of Ms. Rodham and her fellow college students, my campaign may not have been a success at all. I can only assume that there are big things ahead for that young woman, and that the sky's the limit on what she may achieve, if she puts her mind to it.”
…
Across the country at Georgetown University, another young American, one William Jefferson Clinton was forced to come to a decision about his future as well. “Bill” as he was known to friends and acquaintances, had lived a rather different life from Ms. Rodham. Whereas Hillary had spent her early life in the comforts of Middle Class hobbies and suburbia, Bill had seen a rougher kind of existence, all beginning in a little town called Hope, Arkansas. After his father died in a car crash while he was but three months old, Bill’s mother, Virginia remarried one Roger Clinton Sr., a used car salesman who lived in nearby Hot Springs. The family moved there, and young Bill took his stepfather’s surname as his own. Though he found a family for himself, Bill didn’t have long to be happy, circumstances continued to shift beneath his feet over the next several years.
Roger, despite being an able provider was also an alcoholic, and deeply abusive to Bill’s mother and half-brother, Roger Jr. On more than one occasion, young Bill was forced to intervene on pain of violence to stop his stepfather’s drunken abuses toward the rest of the family. In a journal he privately kept throughout his early years, Bill expressed an intense desire to “get away from all this, and take Mom and Roger Jr. with me.” As his education reached the secondary level at Hot Springs High School, it seemed that he may have found his ticket out.
An avid reader, active student leader and natural musician, Bill found that he possessed a multitude of talents, each of which was tempered by his own inherent charisma. Teachers and peers alike reported on his ability to “persuade a cinder block to accept his point of view” if he set his mind to it. He ran for and won Student Council President, sang in the choir, and played tenor saxophone in the school band. At the last of these, he proved so adept that during his senior year he won first chair in the state band saxophone section. Accolades piled up for “Bubba”, another nickname from those close to him, and for a time he considered dedicating his life to music. This, along with medicine however were briefly set aside as he developed a third major love: public affairs.
Considering his natural inclination toward oratory and rhetoric, it seemed almost inevitable to those who knew him that Bill would take an interest in politics. A trip as a Boys Nation Senator to the White House to meet President Kennedy in 1963, coupled with watching Dr. Martin Luther King’s “I Have a Dream” speech on television lit a fire beneath young Clinton. The inspiring words and soaring ideals expressed in the world all around him touched him in a way he’d never felt before. His anger, coupled with acute ambition drove him to one conclusion: he should study law and one day make a go at public office. Once in power, he would do everything he could to help families like his, ones torn apart by strife, substance abuse, and working class living, and help make the country a better place. All this was undoubtedly on his mind when he applied to and was accepted by Georgetown Law School for the fall semester of 1964. There, Clinton hoped to earn a degree in foreign service, political science, or even history. All in all, “whatever stood the best chance of getting him into law school.”
For a time, this seemed to be a consistent plan for Bill. As his first semester began, Clinton chose to forgo running for class President to focus his energies on volunteering for President Kennedy’s reelection campaign. The often grueling hours at the campaign office did a number on the young man’s grades however, and by election night, Bill was starting to feel overextended. That night, as the results from New York were made final and the election was called for the President, Clinton headed into Washington to grab a drink at Willie’s an aptly named little hole in the wall that he and his friends sometimes frequented for a date or a bite to eat. Exhausted and worked, he felt, down to the bone, there was only one item on the menu Bill had any interest in. “Scotch, straight, no frills please.” He told the barkeep, and slipped a crumbled wad of bills across the counter. Shep, the barman never made an effort to ask for ID. Cops didn’t frequent this part of the city, they’d be even less likely to on election night. Bill received his drink within a moment or two.
He shook the glass back and forth for a moment, enjoying the simple pleasure of watching the ice clink back and forth against its dingy container. It was the first time in months that he could lean back on the rickety barstool and think clearly. No door to door vote rousing or girls calling his apartment to worry about. Just him, a bit of the hard stuff, and some smooth jazz on the jukebox. Bill never drank much. He didn’t want to turn out like Roger Sr., but he made sure to make time to enjoy himself. At least, he had always in the past. Now he wasn’t so sure.
Days were filled with hard work, and nights with hardly restful sleep. Between classes, volunteering and trying to make friends, Bill couldn’t remember the last time he’d been able to just sit and take in a night. To smell out the air freshener in the corner, run his hands along the smooth, worn wood of the bar, and tap his feet to the low murmuring of a jazz band pressed on vinyl. When did the simple things get traded out for the complicated world of politics and activism? He quietly pondered. Was it winning student council elections in High School? Or shaking the President’s hand and hearing Dr. King? Was it really a quest for a better world that drove him, or some sort of dubious desire to be well liked and popular? There’s nothing wrong with America that can’t be fixed by what’s right with America. He’d written that in an essay for public affairs class earlier that semester. Bill thought it sounded like something President Kennedy might have said, or at the very least maybe former Vice President Johnson. A fitting message for a real campaign speech. His professor had disagreed, slapping Bill’s paper with a “C” grade.
Maybe if that’s the case, he thought as he sipped his scotch. Then it doesn’t need me to spend my life trying to guide it along. He thought back to his tenor saxophone, lying dusty and discarded beneath his messy bed, tucked away in its leather case. Oh how great it would be to unwind, inhale a little marijuana and just make music again. His feet longed for rhythm and his ears for melodies. His heart thumped to a jazzy beat, Bill realized. There was no amount of campaigning that could change that about him. There would always be a President Kennedy or someone like him out there to fight the good fight and make things right. Bill didn’t need to worry himself being that someone.
After finishing that semester, Bill Clinton dropped out of Georgetown and bought himself a used Rambler American automobile. He put the car up on the highway and set a course for Detroit. There, he would make a name for himself in some jazz clubs and try and scrape out a living as a session musician. Loaded in the sleek, compact body of his Rambler were a tenor saxophone, a suitcase full of scraggly looking suits, and a young man from a little town called Hope, with eyes as big as stars and a dream on his heart. What could be more American than that?
Next Time on Blue Skies in Camelot: A Peek into the Pop Culture of 1966
Certainly. Here's hoping Gagarin and the NASA team can help cooler heads prevail
Wow! I was only guessing! I didn’t expect it to be true!
It’s interesting to see Mrs. Rodham stay in the Republican camp. With moderate Republicans still a thing, I can see her being a powerful member and become prominent in the future, especially if Rockefeller decides to help her along. This will also be bad for the Democrats, as they’ve lost a great member to the other side.
Good to see Old Bill. Interesting to see him decide to just relax and pursue a more relaxing life in music and jazz. However, I wonder if he’d be a prominent musician or become lost in the pages of history. Perhaps as a tool for AH ITTL?
All in all, seeing the a Democrats lose two of their important members will definitely change things in the years ahead. With one sticking to the Republicans and the other drifting in calm, they might need to find new blood.
It’s interesting to see Mrs. Rodham stay in the Republican camp. With moderate Republicans still a thing, I can see her being a powerful member and become prominent in the future, especially if Rockefeller decides to help her along. This will also be bad for the Democrats, as they’ve lost a great member to the other side.
Good to see Old Bill. Interesting to see him decide to just relax and pursue a more relaxing life in music and jazz. However, I wonder if he’d be a prominent musician or become lost in the pages of history. Perhaps as a tool for AH ITTL?
All in all, seeing the a Democrats lose two of their important members will definitely change things in the years ahead. With one sticking to the Republicans and the other drifting in calm, they might need to find new blood.
Wow! I was only guessing! I didn’t expect it to be true!
It’s interesting to see Mrs. Rodham stay in the Republican camp. With moderate Republicans still a thing, I can see her being a powerful member and become prominent in the future, especially if Rockefeller decides to help her along. This will also be bad for the Democrats, as they’ve lost a great member to the other side.
Good to see Old Bill. Interesting to see him decide to just relax and pursue a more relaxing life in music and jazz. However, I wonder if he’d be a prominent musician or become lost in the pages of history. Perhaps as a tool for AH ITTL?
All in all, seeing the a Democrats lose two of their important members will definitely change things in the years ahead. With one sticking to the Republicans and the other drifting in calm, they might need to find new blood.
I had a hard time keeping it a secret, I was so excited to see you guess correctly!
Glad to hear you find it interesting I'll be keeping up with some more historical figures throughout the TL to keep things varied, but I will say that both Bill and Hillary will return at points in the future. Wow! So Bill Clinton becomes a musician, while Hillary stays as a Republican Moderate, and the two likely never marrying. Just wow.
I get the feeling by the way that we could end up with a Republican Hillary Presidency in the late 90's, early 2000's, which would be very interesting.
I get the feeling by the way that we could end up with a Republican Hillary Presidency in the late 90's, early 2000's, which would be very interesting.
To be fair, Democrats are probably not going to be losing RFK to death in 68', and who knows if we might see various other members of the family, like JFK Jr. just to name a few, continuing to play a strong role in politics.
Glad it was a bit of a curveball for ya.
With the GOP staying more moderate ITTL, you're likely to see grounds for Hillary to rise far if she plays her cards right. That being said, only time will tell, of course.Yup, plus if the Conservative elements of the party do end up splitting away and merging with elements of the American Independent party to form a new Conservative Party like I think they will, Hillary would probably be front and center in the newly weaken Republican Party. That said, if there is one sad thing about this chapter, it's that poor Chelsea Clinton essentially got wiped from existence.Glad it was a bit of a curveball for ya.
Anyways, are we going to hear about Star Trek in the next chapter?
Yup, plus if the Conservative elements of the party do end up splitting away and merging with elements of the American Independent party to form a new Conservative Party like I think they will, Hillary would probably be front and center in the newly weaken Republican Party. That said, if there is one sad thing about this chapter, it's that poor Chelsea Clinton essentially got wiped from existence.
Anyways, are we going to hear about Star Trek in the next chapter?
Another bit of interesting analysis, Nerdman. A new conservative party is a strong possibility, and the GOP will need to react quickly to redefine itself if such an event comes to pass. Playing the middle certainly has its advantages, but its own unique set of challenges as well, and the Democrats will probably suffer the same casualties that they did in this period IOTL. The Strom Thurmond breed of Democrat throughout the south are likely to be the backbone of a new Conservative Party, if it focuses primarily on social, rather than economic issues.
Poor Chelsea
Though I won't promise that Bill and Hillary's paths will never cross. Yep! As a major Star Trek fan myself, I'm excited to get to include it ITTL
It probably won't be a huge focus, but we'll talk about its development as it goes along ITTL.