YEAFT: What can Argentina get instead of Veinticinco de Mayo?

Discussion in 'Alternate History Discussion: After 1900' started by Jukra, Jan 8, 2019.

  1. Father Maryland Enemy of Neo Secesh Everywhere

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    In 1952 Brazil and the UK did a deal where the UK supplied Meteor Fighter Jets in return for a large number of cotton bales.
     
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  2. McPherson McPherson; a guy who needs a shave.

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    Rotors, turbines and other issues.

    Agreed about the guns to missiles changeover. Khrushchev solved his problem by cancelling the whole Red Navy program for a fleet of gun armed light cruisers and sent them off to build a new generation of ракета вооруженных крейсеров. The OSAs were first fruits.

    If the hull vibration problem was never solved on the Lion, that might be a non-starter.

    Anyway, the replacement timeframe is 1968-1972 and it appears that about then, just maybe, the Russians are on to something. Would not be the first time they changed the way navies think.
     
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  3. GDIS Pathe Well-Known Member

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    Didn’t Indonesia pay for a few dozen Sukhois with palm oil a few years back?
     
  4. Father Maryland Enemy of Neo Secesh Everywhere

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    I believe your right. And I think Venezuela paid for some kit with Petrol fairly recently.

    It's not that uncommon for poorer states to arrange what are essentially barter deals for military gear. I think the Soviets used to do it at lot with 3rd world allies.
     
  5. Riain Well-Known Member

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    Not just poor countries. People often poo-pooh the political aspects of major arms sales, the readiness to offset a military purchase with a commodity sale and other side deals can be the key to establishing an enduring strategic partnership. The problem lies in cutting down your only forest for a fleet of planes that doesn't perform as advertised.
     
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  6. Father Maryland Enemy of Neo Secesh Everywhere

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    Well yes a lot of large arms deals are tied into or related to larger trade deals. But generally poorer nations that lack hard currency are the ones to do more or less straight barter deals of X commodity for Y military equipment.
     
  7. NOMISYRRUC Get Your Trousers On, You're Nicked!

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    Although the plan was to fit Terrier to both ships only De Zeven Provinciën was so fitted and instead of reinstating the 6" guns that were removed it was replaced by a hangar and flight deck for Sea King helicopters.
     
  8. SwampTiger Well-Known Member

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    Could De Grasse be used, with a Terrier/Tartar/Sea Dart launcher aft, 4 X Exocet, and a helipad amidships? This is a modified variant of Colbert's last variant. The 57mm would be an adequate CDS, and it can still carry 2 X 2 127/54 DP guns. It had additional space in the double bridge added for its last deployment. This could be converted to a fleet command center/Admiral's quarters. It was stricken and scrapped in 1974.
     
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  9. CV12Hornet Well-Known Member

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    If you’re buying French just stick Masurca on it.
     
  10. Jukra Well-Known Member

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    There's also the refit costs, which have to have been substantial.
     
  11. Jukra Well-Known Member

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    De Grasse surely must have had enough facilities for a flagship, it was used as command ship for French nuclear tests, after all. Historically Argentina purchased Sea Dart, after all. Here's a photo in it's last incarnation:

    [​IMG]
     
  12. Whiteshore Defender of Myrcella Baratheon

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    In such a scenario, how long do you think would they operate the Alaskas? Considering the first-generation dreadnoughts they would probably replace were operated until the 1950s, I could see the Alaskas being operated until the 1980s or 90s.
     
  13. Jukra Well-Known Member

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    Most significantly, would there be a chance where an Alaska single handedly saves the Malvinas becoming one of the most celebrated and revered warships of modern times?
     
  14. Riain Well-Known Member

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    It would struggle against the 3 SSNs operating in the area.
     
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  15. Jukra Well-Known Member

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    (an Argentinian Alaska)
    Should have added a smiley :)
     
  16. juanml82 Well-Known Member

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    It could be beached in Stanley and used as a fixed gun plataform to defend that particular spot. But if the Argentine Navy didn't do that with the Belgrano, why would they do it with Alaska? Chances are, it gets sunk by submarines.
     
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  17. McPherson McPherson; a guy who needs a shave.

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    More likely it would be Yamato 2.0.
     
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  18. NOMISYRRUC Get Your Trousers On, You're Nicked!

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    IIRC no.

    Unlike her half-sister Colbert it wasn't possible to fit Mascura to De Grasse because of the internal subdivision of the hull. So it wouldn't be possible to fit Terrier, Tatar or Sea Dart either.
     
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  19. SwampTiger Well-Known Member

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    How is it different? I am not a fan of Masurca, too few platforms/operators. How does the entire mount/magazine/machinery differ/compare between Masurca and the Mk11/13 Tartar? I see the Masurca system weighs @ 450 metric tons, but have no info on dimensions.The four aft 127/54 1948 mounts of De Grasse/Colbert weighed 49 metric tons each. The mount could be moved more amidships if needed.

    Could Roland be marinized? Yes I know it is a few years late.

    My ideal, and unlikely choice, would be two squadrons of F-101C Voodoo with Exocet/AS-30/Roland adapted to the rotary weapons bay.
     
  20. McPherson McPherson; a guy who needs a shave.

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    Navy's Blue Ridge Class Command Ships Once Had This Wacky …

    There is always a way.

    Might be goofy but it is possible and plausible.

    Roland has some possible problems as it is very short ranged. Is there a better option here?
     
    Last edited: Jan 11, 2019 at 2:18 PM
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