For all the idea of revanchist America, simple economics make that impossible for us against GB. Between 1881 - 1914, 48% of all foreign investment into the American industrial sector came from Britain. Unless America wants to be massively economically behind than otl, they cannot afford to alienate UK's investment post-war. Similarly, Britain can't afford to lose the American markets. Simple reality of economics.
Wrapped in Flames: The Great American War and Beyond
- Thread starter EnglishCanuck
- Start date
I find it probable that there will be more bad blood between the commoners of the USA and the British Empire, but the higher level political and financial leaders will come to see the war as an unfortunate result of a small handful of men's incompetence and arrogance. Lincoln is unlikely to be as well-regarded as OTL in this timeline and Seward is likely to be demonized by a substantial chunk of the populace and/or intelligentsia for years to come.
There's going to be a very different attitude in Canada regarding defence spending in the aftermath of the war. Though that will also cause some friction as the leader of the Great Coalition was notoriously stingy with defence spending and didn't much care for soldiering. Then one of our viewpoint characters, a certain Denison, will play a very large roll in both post-war military issues and military politics. The issue of paying for it all will be...contentious to say the least.
Though you're right, many forts are going to be refurbished and not allowed to fall into disrepair TTL! Though many of the current fortifications in the New Brunswick/Maine frontier are currently timber and earthwork forts garrisoned by the militia and a few British garrison batteries.
There will be people on both sides who have been financially ruined by the war. There was millions of British pounds (I've seen the exact number but for the life of me cannot find where I have written it down) tied up in American railroads securities, much of which is now gone. Though TTL there were suggestions (and I've seen people who have suggested this in real life as a solution) that the Union simply seize British properties and assets to help the war, or launch some kind of Embargo Act against British goods. That these measures would be horrendously self-defeating is something I think Lincoln and his cabinet would realize, but even so, millions of dollars in property and shipping has been lost and the lack of trade is crippling many industries.
One of the only men currently turning a profit is a certain Benjamin Butler who is indirectly running a blockade cartel from Boston.
In the post war world there will be a lot of realization of just how much money stands to be lost if there's another war. There may be strategic considerations that mean the losses may be necessary, but then again, there also might not. The late 19th century is going to be an interesting time in the Chinese sense!
There will be many interpretations. It will depend on where you're from regionally (New York for instance will have a very different attitude than say, Michigan) while in Britain it will probably be seen as a sign of Yankee foolishness until the end of the Victorian period. In Canada you'll have it as another sign you can't trust Washington, and much more besides.
There will be bad blood north and south of the US/Canadian border for quite some time. There will also be a lot of angry looks across the Atlantic.
If the south doesnot chqnge radically investnent will be limited by its anti industrialiisation ideology. Also many potential investors wont touch it for reasons varying from religious and ideological sentiment to concern over public image or political and financial stability. They will probably be the purvieu of the inmmoral or the desperate
Some are, but the Southern economy, thanks to TTLs 1862 is not in the toilet. The inflation that would leap off a cliff in summer 1862 hasn't hit here and the economic effects of 1863 are interesting. But there are British interests who have a direct stake in a Southern victory I will address.
Investment in industry would be sparse, but cotton was absurdly lucrative in this era so there would be people investing regardless of scruples.
kham_coc
Banned
It's worth noting that neither government controls where it's private interests invest money. See the US/China today.
For help in following the next series of events, this map of Rensselaer County from 1854 can be followed. The inverted triangle on the Deep Kill River marks Larbee's Woods, and the course can be roughly followed so long as one sticks to the left end of the map. If I were better with paint I might sketch it out more but alas that is not my talents!
Chapter 73: The Foot Cavalry
Chapter 73: The Foot Cavalry
“The laws of the human body seemed to have been reversed for these men. They marched, and fought, and triumphed, like war-machines, which felt no need of rest, or food, or sleep. In one day they marched from Leesburg to Washington, over forty miles. ... The very rapidity of their marches separates them from all soldier-comforts—often from their very blankets, however cold the weather; and any other troops but these and their Southern comrades would long since have mutinied and demanded bread and rest. But the shadow of disaffection never flitted over forehead in that command.” - Recollected in Old Jack and his Foot Cavalry, John Bradburn, 1864
“The shattering reverses around Washington had left the Army of Northern Virginia in perilous state. Whiting’s corps was in disarray, having retreated partially to Annapolis, and the remainder fleeing northwest to perceived safety. Jackson’s corps, in far more coherent shape, was still accompanying Lee back through Maryland, looking to get south of the Potomac and join the army, or what Lee feared might be left of it.
Fleeing across the Potomac at White’s Ford and Cheek’s Ford, Lee managed to get the scattered forces in manageable order at Leesburg. Taking stock of his forces Lee discovered that Jackson’s corps, alongside the single division of Whiting’s which had made the flight intact under Ranson had a mere 29,000 men. His single relief was that he made contact with Longstreet who now effectively commanded the Army of Northern Virginia south of Washington. The army maintained its positions, but for how much longer, none could say. Rosecrans, for the moment, significantly outnumbered the Confederates, but he showed no inclination to use those numbers to sweep the Confederates south.
The defeat of Reynolds’s attacks to the south had disheartened Rosecrans, and he came to an unfortunate realization. While he had broken the siege, he had inherited a tired, demoralized army which was low on supplies. Doubting his chances to deal Lee a stinging defeat, he instead began to maneuver his men to protect the city, but also began pulling supplies from wherever he could find them. Rebuilding fortifications, restocking warehouses, Rosecrans started to pull the army back together.
His sudden stop caused outrage in Philadelphia. Stanton was cabled to immediately return and explain all that had happened to Lincoln, while General McClellan, now released from what amounted to arrest, was ordered to New York to take command of the department there which Wool had been retired from…
Pressure mounted on Rosecrans to attack, but he adamantly and stoutly refused to be moved. His one major action, a reconnaissance by III Corps to the south of the Potomac, managed to run directly into Jackson’s advancing troops near Dranesville. Reporting this to Philadelphia Rosecrans declared he would “work with patience and dedication to rebuild this proud army which has saved the Republic so recently.”
Unable to prod the recalcitrant general to action, and unwilling to relieve him, Lincoln found he had no choice but to accept Rosencrans assessments that the army needed to rest and resupply before it could be moved south again and evict the Confederacy from its entrenchments around the District of Columbia. The campaign in Maryland had now truly ended…” - To Arms!: The Great American War, Sheldon Foote, University of Boston 1999.
Through great effort Lee and Jackson would, mostly, reunite the Army of Northern Virginia
“Though stalled by the Battle at Saratoga, it had not stopped the Army of Canada. Dundas however, now faced a conundrum. Here was a well positioned, and now more determined American army, and his own forces had been badly depleted from the fighting across much of northern New York state. He would have to incur considerable casualties to drive the Americans from yet another well established position, and most likely have to fall on Albany in unfavorable circumstances.
For two weeks the two armies would simply stare at one another across the mountainous terrain. Burnside unwilling to retreat, and Dundas unwilling to attack him again. Once again it would be Colonel Wolseley who proposed a solution.
Wolseley suggested that, rather than fight another pitched battle, the campaign ought to conclude with a great attack. A force would cross the Hudson River and veer south, moving to strike at Albany and not necessarily take the place, but threaten or destroy as much as it could. It was a plan for, essentially, a greatly scaled up raid.
Of course, Wolseley would accompany this force, whose command was designated to William Norcott and Colonel Low, whose Canadian cavalry was called south. Accompanied by lighter cavalry and the infantry, these men began moving across the Hudson River well north of the British army's current positions on the west bank of the river and moved southwards, towards Albany itself…” - Empire and Blood: British Military Operations in the 19th Century Volume IV.
Col. Low, commanding the Canadian cavalry
“It is a curious thing to not be in command of a force on a mission which you have drawn up yourself. That was just such the position I found myself in when my proposed strike was accepted by Dundas.
I had great hopes for the expedition, and I certainly believed that it might well end the war in a few weeks. Perhaps it was the impertinence of youth that tempted me, but I was a braggart to my brother officers. I did however, manage to surround myself with an excellent series of men. Here I would make the fortunate acquaintances of two officers who, in time, would become of great assistance to me.
Captain (but local Major) Evelyn Wood was placed at my disposal, having eagerly come to the warzone and delayed his start at the Staff College to earn ‘in the field experience’ which any soldier worth his salt would find praiseworthy. Then Ensign Redvers Buller was an excellent addition to my staff, and proved to be a first rate messenger and, if one is not too crass, a spy. His scouting was invaluable to our forward movement and I am pleased to say we became fast friends. So too was this my first interaction with Baker Russell, loaned to me by my friend Soames from the 13th Hussars. His horsemen were an excellent addition to the scouting and he was quick to use any information gathered by Ensign Buller, making our movement southwards almost seamless.
This small grouping would rapidly serve as the de-facto staff in our enterprises. If there was any grumbling from the regular staff I heard little, and it seems Norcott was happy to make use of us.
Upon crossing the river and heading south, I was rapidly pleased to have made use of the Canadian cavalry. Well suited for scouting, over a year under arms and on duty had made them veterans in their craft, and a few of the organization had been drawn from hunting lodges. It made them less likely to repeat mistakes some of our more regular troops may have done, and they practised some restraint. They were also able to rapidly maneuver southwards along the roads and surround or capture the enemy's scouting forces. That the Yankee cavalry was in little evidence suggested just how badly we had mauled him in the previous weeks.
Our first goals were accomplished with the cutting of the Albany Northern Railroad at Schaghticoke and then the Troy and Boston Railroad a day later. While the main body moved onwards, the infantry tore up miles of track, and greatly annoyed the Yankees ability to supply themselves. It was from there that we would march south to Albany.
On the 14th of September we neared the outskirts of Troy, but here we found the enemy had finally roused himself to our presence. In a most favorable position on a hillock covering both roadwards approaches, a good brigade of enemy forces had drawn themselves up, covered by a breastwork and with guns mounted, and protection offered by the Deep Kill River. We had few options but to engage him. Colonel Low was given orders to ride around the enemy and raise havoc in the rear while our infantry and guns would pin him in place. We assumed we had but a day, perhaps hours, before we could expect more of the enemy to appear.
Norcott allowed our forces to skirmish heavily with the enemy, the guns doing a fine job of suppressing his own, and we managed to keep him distracted. For whatever reason, the enemy was content to sit behind his fieldworks while we traded fire for a day. The most serious danger came the morning of the 15th where they advanced out from their works and came to engage our own men. Such was the ferocity of the attack they overran a battery of guns on our right and we were obliged to engage him hand to hand to get it back!
Here I must complete Ensign Buller who, on his own initiative, engaged a party of men to support their fellows who were almost taken at the flank in confusion. With a smart about face they poured fire into the Yankee line and we threw him back. Yet we could not survive another attack such as that, and with enemy reinforcements sure to be near we were only too relieved to see Low’s cavalry returning…” – The Story of a Soldiers Life, Volume II, Field-Marshal Viscount Garnet Wolseley, Westminster 1903
“It had been Hancock who alerted Burnside to the dangers of the British raid, volunteering to personally lead a brigade south to stiffen up the almost non-existent forces on the east side of the river, Burnside was not fully convinced of the danger until September 10th, but finally relented and Hancock led the men of what remained of Napoleon T. Dana’s brigade southwards, moving across the river and arriving at Larbee’s Wood mere hours ahead of Norcott’s raiders.
Far in the rear his old battered division was moving to support him, but with the size of the British force unknown, he was unsure whether this single battered division could hold…
It was to Hancock’s eternal surprise after the Battle of Larbee’s Wood that the British turned back. In his rear the British cavalry had caused considerable damage at Troy, but the appearance of his old division had driven them off. Though he slowly, and carefully, pursued the raiders, he never caught them and forced them to battle. This however, did not matter to the New York presses as he was praised as a hero. Called “The Savior of Albany” Hancock would inadvertently ride high on that moniker, though he himself would not mutter it until 1879…” - Hancock the Superb: The Life of Winfield Scott Hancock, Charles Rivers, Newton Publishing, 2012
“Though Wolseley’s raid had largely failed in its goal to cause much material damage, cutting the rail lines and the ‘Burning of Troy’ had satisfied Dundas. At the long end of his supply lines, he promptly ordered the army northwards again. Retreating to Plattsburgh, he began fortifying it for the winter, and would write to London he had accomplished his goals and Canada was secure.
In London, once the full accounting of the news had been read in October there was spirited debate about whether it had accomplished all it could. True the Richelieu River invasion route was closed and the Yankees could not march on Montreal, but would it not have been better to take Albany itself? This debate was stopped however upon the arrival of…” - Empire and Blood: British Military Operations in the 19th Century Volume IV.
-x-x-x-x-
Lemon Hill, Philadelphia, September 18th 1863
The sitting rooms at the temporary Executive Mansion were quite comfortable. Almost sinfully so, especially with men fighting and dying from California, the Hudson Valley to the Potomac. However, the President and his advisors were in sore need of comfort in these trying times, and they could find so little of it elsewhere. Even the comfort they were in was a reminder of how dire the situation still was.
Lincoln looked tired. In Seward’s opinion they were all tired and careworn. He hadn’t slept properly until the night before when the final news from Albany came. The British turned back, the Army of the Hudson saved, and New York secure from foreign invasion. For now.
Outside one could see the city of Philadelphia, the first capital of the United States, and now the temporary capital again. Even though Rosecrans and Thomas had saved Washington, Lincoln dare not move the government back while Confederate guns could still fire on the Executive Mansion, nor when the real threat of the enemy advancing from Annapolis and cutting the rail lines existed. Though there had been celebrations and jubilation at the breaking of the siege, and the victory at Saratoga, both Lincoln and Seward could see the same problems.
“You’re sure you wish to proceed with this plan sir?” Seward finally asked.
Lincoln sighed. “We’ve said the same story round and round in cabinet meetings Seward. Chase may be against it, but he is merely playing devil's advocate.”
“It is perhaps premature, what with the victory at Saratoga,” Seward replied.
“I am minded of some old maxim about men and gods,” Lincoln quipped. “Those whom the gods would destroy they first make mad. I feel like that’s the road they’re on with me. I am given hope, only to see it snatched away. We may be holding on by our fingernails in Kentucky, the capital is free, and maybe we can continue to try another invasion of Canada but to what purpose? No Seward, we must have one war and one war only. The people may not like it, but they like the blockade even less.”
Seward could not argue the point. He merely hoped they had no cause to regret their next course of action. If it succeeded though, they could find themselves in a far better position come the spring. Then, they might make good all their reverses of the previous year. It was, if not bold, then a necessary step. That he had to be the one to initiate it was no less comforting,
“Very well sir,” Seward replied, standing to grab his hat. “I shall pass on your letter to Baron de Stockl and we shall ask the Tsar for help in bringing the British to the negotiating table. Hopefully, they’ll accept our offer.”
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Ooh so the Union has decided the time has come to negotiate, now it remains to be seen whether or not the British will accept, and if so what does that mean for the Confederacy
Sometimes, talking can accomplish more than victories on the field. Though we shall see where this leads.
So, Lincoln hopes he can secure a peace with Britain that doesn't also involve a guarantee of Confederate independence? I am skeptical.
I am very eagerly awaiting the coming chapters over negotiations as well as the future of Kentucky and Eastern Fronts
I sense some foreshadowing for a future president or the very least Presidential candidate
A negotiated peace would be best for the US right now, at least when fighting the UK. Whether or not they can get it remains to be seen, but I imagine several in Parliament would like to see it happen. If it does though, I do not imagine many in the South looking favourably upon the UK for generations to come.
Maybe the US can cede some western state like Washington to appease the Brits IF and only if they insist on guarantee Richmond, then proceed to crush the CSA.
I believe that piece of land was still a territory at that time, this makes things simpler.
I believe that piece of land was still a territory at that time, this makes things simpler.
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France waited til 1914 for their showdown, certainly the US can too.
Possibly, quite very possibly
There's movement in Parliament going both ways, some who want peace, and others who want the Union brought low for percieved hubris. There's still some interesting political wrangling to be done coming up. 1864 is going to be even more politics heavy than 1863 and 1862. Expect many more broad chapters than ones focusing on the military minutiae, though I will have some of that as we also explore the campaigns of 1864.
Given the title for a moment I thought based of the title Lee would force march his part of the army to new York In a hail Mary. But things aren't that desperate yet.
I Am glad it looks like the morally Decent people are going to start talking so the abomination that is the CSA can get hit with the full force of the armies of yankedom.
assuming the negotiations work althrough
Great chapter once again!
I Am glad it looks like the morally Decent people are going to start talking so the abomination that is the CSA can get hit with the full force of the armies of yankedom.
assuming the negotiations work althrough
hints that negotiations will at least start .
A peerage and the highest rank but retired at 1903 makes me think wolsely will get his chance to shine in a second relatively big war around 1880 to 1890 althrough Hancock promoting himself in 1879 puts a dent of sorts in that theory.
Great chapter once again!
The question thus becomes, has the time when accepting a separate peace was in Britain's interest already passed or not? The dealings between the British Empire and the confederacy suggest that time is at least a few months past. However, it's unlikely Britain will gain much from continuing the war. Thus, the question becomes, whether the PM believes that breaking a promise to a dismal slaver state is harmful enough to Britain's image that it's better to continue spending men's lives and materiel in this war.