Wrapped in Flames: The Great American War and Beyond
- Thread starter EnglishCanuck
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Ficboy
Banned
If the Confederates win, it's game over for the Americans. If its inverse, then they have a chance.
Who needs two enemies!?
Though it is interesting just how poisonous the relationship between the politicians and the generals could get. I'm (surprisingly) not really exaggerating the animosity that Stanton and McClellan showed one another in later life. McClellan earnestly believed that the Secretary of War was having his mail searched and that he had agents following him (the former might have been true, the latter was definitely not) and Stanton seemed to seriously believe that the General might have been capable of fermenting a coup. Of course, McClellan was not Napoleon, not even Napoleon III, he did respect the institutions of the United States government and the separation of powers. That was why he went to the ballot box in 1864.
Ficboy
Banned
The next chapter is definitely going to involve a Confederate victory or two in Washington DC given the circumstances unless something unexpected happens which I'm sure you just might do.
George Thomas, slow trot Thomas, will have to pull Rosecrans chestnuts from the fire if he can. Barring that... well, it doesn't look good.
Ficboy
Banned
It looks like you're indicating the Confederates will win the Great American War by taking Washington DC thus forcing the Americans to surrender to them and by extension the British. The peace terms will likely result in the Confederates keeping Kentucky, the Indian Territory/Sequoyah and Arizona but they really want to have Missouri, Maryland and West Virginia to which the Americans won't easily hand them over like a silver plate then again the British are going to be one of the major negotiating parties for peace and they might just force their hand. If that's not the case then Missouri, Maryland and West Virginia would have to vote in a referendum over whether they stay in the Union or secede and join the Confederacy to which its very much in flux. All three areas had pockets of secessionist sentiment so regardless of the results they would most likely join their Southern brethren or they might be stopped from doing so for obvious reasons. The site of the peace terms would have to be a city in Canada like Toronto, London the capital of the United Kingdom or Havana located in the neutral colony of Cuba owned by Spain. A good example would have to be the Treaty of Ghent in the excellent timeline The Revenge of the Crown: An Alternate 1812 and Beyond where the United States loses OTL's Michigan and Wisconsin as well as parts of Ohio and Illinois to the newly formed Crown Dominion of Mishigama not to mention the formation of the newly independent Commonwealth of New England and I think a similar model could apply here in Wrapped in Flames: The Great American War and Beyond.
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There is no need to repeat the same thing over and over, please. We know the situation is dire, and although there are hints the concrete result is not clear yet. The author obviously is not going to tell us whether the Confederates do indeed win, since that would ruin the story.
thomas is slow and with only 30,000 in baltmore roscerans is mediocre and grant is stuck in a siege in the west.meanwhile a Canadian POV just came up with a plan to break the american lines in the north. unless the US comes up with some crazy idea of taking troops from other important fonts and doing a kamizkee dash towards Canada or the ANV it's all over
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Ficboy
Banned
Washington DC is America's most important city since 1801 and it has served as the nation's capital for over 60 years. It's an important symbol and if it were to fall to the Confederates and the British then it would most certainly strike a blow to American morale.
In a no way Union would hand over Kentucky and SoMO, WV, Those areas despite being fairly racist even by the standards of 1860's were full of unionist support and rejected CSA out of the bed in 1861.
I can see Union withdrawing from original 11 states, and evacuating Arizona territory and modern Oklahoma territory.
Also Aroostook boundary in Maine can be resettled in Canadian profit, but nothing more.
I can see Union withdrawing from original 11 states, and evacuating Arizona territory and modern Oklahoma territory.
Also Aroostook boundary in Maine can be resettled in Canadian profit, but nothing more.
Oh yes, and worse the nation doesn't even fully know about it yet. McClellan will have plenty of time to stew, and Lincoln, even if Washington holds, will find himself with a very big and potentially dangerous political headache. Though to be fair, sacking McClellan historically also put a long term political headache in play, but McClellan had less to campaign on after September 1864. TTL's 1864, well who knows?
Ficboy
Banned
The CSA still holds onto eastern Kentucky and other areas. They would demand those area via referendum or if the British chose so.
No Christmas card for Stanton from the Lincolns this year, I take it?
Well probably a Christmas card, with a dollop of folksy story Lincoln knows Stanton would hate.
Ficboy
Banned
The Great American War is going to end by 1864 or 1865 depending on the progress in Canada and the Confederacy. Washington being captured would be a blow to American morale and put the Confederates alongside the Anglo-Canadians in a serious negotiating position not to mention that it would allow them to threaten nearby Maryland specifically cities such as Baltimore and Frederick.
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Ficboy
Banned
Well I don't want to repeat myself here, as I have outlined in previous posts any peace terms after the Great American War would put the British and the Confederates in a strong negotiation position when compared to the Americans. One is a world power and is more or less the United States of the 19th century spanning four to five different continents while the other is a newly formed nation built on the values of Old World aristocracy and hierarchy albeit with a racialized slant though to be fair there were other reasons such as perceived exploitative economic laws and subversion of the Constitution as noted in some contemporary documents and newspapers around 1860-1861. They would really want to get everything they want from the negotiations in terms of territory and military thus Britain and the Confederacy will pressure America into accepting their peace proposal which will most certainly favor the former two over the latter even if they don't like it. Of course something unexpected could happen such as the Federals holding off the Rebels at Washington DC but with so much resources exhausted and having to compete with a more powerful nation I don't think they'll last any longer against the Redcoats.
From July 11th to the 8th of August? One would presume that the the confederates would in a month's time figure there's some chaos afoot and attack?
I'm guessing you meant the 18th of July? A week of haphazard reorganisation is still very bad, but at a time when sending reliable information still involves a man on a horse more often than not it's not catastrophic.
There will definitely be a lot more people saying 'the Union could have won but for' than there are 'south will rise again' people in our timeline.
Ooh, this is going to lead to a really weird American Dolchstoßlegende. One that actually has some tangential connections with the truth, unlike the OTL thingy. That's going to be interesting.
On the bright side, he might get one from Lee and/or Davis.