So I was wondering: what would have happened had Zheng Chenggong survived his malaria and continued leading the fleet he had based in Taiwan? Would he have successfully been able to take Manila, and if so, would he have been able to keep it? Would he have been able to continue being a perennial thorn on the side of the Qing? Would the Qing have extended their naval fleets to Luzon if the Zheng family ruled it?
WI: Koxinga survives?
- Thread starter Timaeus
- Start date
Koxinga gets pushed/transferred to the Visayas which would lead to the Spanish to get kicked from the Philippines completely but he will get no further than manila in Luzon the rebels at that time establish their states, since some of the people in northern luzon already sided with the Dutch as mercenaries, the Dutch get Northern half of Luzon and Formosa, the people of the area they wanted to conquer which is southern luzon were able to kick the chinese during the time of Zheng He.
The only thing that can happen is that nobles of luzon defecting to the dutch which would happen if the rebels at that time gain are more succesful - which Celebes did in OTL.
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If he stood his ground, he would probably lose at some point, dragged back to Beijing to be hanged or exiled by the Qing. If his will breaks before then, he might submit to the Qing and get himself a nice cushy, post in the mainland until he might be tempted to revolt again. If he runs, well, he could head anywhere in Southeast Asia. But if he hopes to rise again or keep his kingdom, the Malay Archipelago has lots of spots.
Otherwise, I'm sure he can live on as a mercenary in the various courts of SEA, Ayutthaya in particular. Becoming a lord for another king isn't too bad, actually. Just ask Yamada Nagamasa.
Otherwise, I'm sure he can live on as a mercenary in the various courts of SEA, Ayutthaya in particular. Becoming a lord for another king isn't too bad, actually. Just ask Yamada Nagamasa.
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Maoistic
Banned
I honestly don't see Koxinga taking the Philippines. He took Taiwan (after a hard-fought battle) because it was comparatively poorly defended due to the vast distance from Holland, not to mention the Dutch were far more occupied with their wars with fellow Europeans than in defending this faraway colony. On the other hand, the Spaniards by this point had basically cemented their presence in the Philippines so that even if Koxinga drives them out of certain ports at first, they are coming back to retake it with a galleon fleet from Acapulco which Koxinga is not defeating.
I don't know. This particular period and place of history happens to be a weakness of mine, but I recall reading somewhere, probably on this site, that Koxinga had the largest fleet in the area at the time, larger than the VOC and Spanish. Perhaps that could give him a fighting chance?
Is Luzon too close to mainland China? What if he tried establishing himself in Eastern Mindanao?
Maoistic
Banned
A decade at the very most, and that's exaggerating. The size of Koxinga's fleet can only do so much against European warships, and at this time, the Spaniards, while already decaying, still had one of the most powerful fleets in the world with frigates and galleons that the Chinese of this time can't rival.
True..i think that is because the rebellion that time humiliated the spanish.
The Spanish rule is on the mercy of the nobles, there are people in luzon who are siding with VOC if the nobles of luzon completely defected to the VOC, the VOC will get it which will happen if the rebels at that time win.
I think Luzon is actually far enough that the Qing might be pushed to ignore him, actually. Taiwan was invaded because it was too close to the mainland for comfort. Anywhere further south and the Qing might just leave malaria to pick his followers off.
Of course, to play it safe, he can head for Mindanao, but let's face it. The longer and further he settles, the less he could see the chance of a resurgence and opt to settle down.
i think koxinga's state can be made as a buffer in case the northern half of luzon defects to VOC.