What were the late-20th/early-21st centuries like in the "Fallout" universe?

[Go4theGusto]

I fear that this thread will rely primarily on speculation, but it might be worth discussing since it is (soft, ASB-riddled) Alternate History.

There seem to be two schools of thought on the "retro-futurism" of the Fallout series, one being that U.S. culture somehow stagnated in the early 1960s and the other being that it was a more recent, nostalgic trend (perhaps a reaction to the impending collapse of civilization). Regardless of which is correct, what little canon information we do have suggests that while the Fallout TL and OTL were more-or-less identical up to the end of World War II, the two had diverged significantly by 1969. The Fallout 4 intro movie implies that an increased focus on peaceful applications of atomic energy was either a cause or a result of this divergence.

What do you suppose 2017 would have looked like in the Fallout universe?

 

[Zachary VIII]

Atom Punk style retro futurism, 1950's consumerist culture never dies, no 60's counter culture movement. Moon landing in 1969, that same year the U.S changes from 50 states to 13 autonomous "commonwealths". By the early twenty first century oil begins to run out setting the stage for the Resource Wars. That's all I know off hand, you should try the wiki.

 

[Darksider166]

My take: The 1950s proceed much like in OTL, maybe Joseph McCarthy is assassinated by a communist agitator around 1954 which makes McCarthyism seem justified and there are no Army hearings so McCarthy's reputation is saved. Stalin still dies off in 1953, Ike becomes President, the Korean War could have gone in a full American victory and no North Korea but tensions with China rise due to encroaching U.S. presence on its border. In 1960 Nixon becomes President, initiates Civil Rights but the Hippie culture is looked down as possible communist sympathizers and crushed. The Vietnam War could have escalated into the U.S. declaring war on North Vietnam (In Fallout:Tactics which is semi-canon, a radio broadcast is heard of the U.S. declaring war on Vietnam). The outcome of the war could've resulted in a second-Korea style with China once again interfering militarily by sending troops down and eventually sparking a permanent stalemate by the late 1960s say 1968. China's intervention in the Vietnam War further sparks tensions between America and China.

The Sino-Soviet Split still occurs around 1961, China makes an Atomic Bomb around the same time in 1964. China still has occasional border disputes and battles with the Soviets throughout the 1960s-1970s. Nixon might make the opposite decision to visit the Soviet Union instead of China to meet Premier Khrushchev and the Soviet Union begins to liberalize to lessen nuclear tensions with America especially with the threat of a resurgent China which is beginning to become the third superpower. After Mao's death in 1976, the Gang of Four successfully take power and purge many officials who would liberalize China in OTL like Deng Xiaoping.

Cuba's Revolution is a failure, the Bay of Pigs invasion is a success and Cuba is brought back under American influence so no Cuban Missile Crisis. No Cuban Missile Crisis could mean Khrushchev isn't ousted in a coup in 1964 and thus his reforms continue. The Hardliners in the Soviet Union are slowly removed over the course of the 20th Century.

The 1970s see tension in the Middle East with wars like the Six-Day War and the Yom Kippur War occurring. Detente with the Soviet Union never ends, the Soviets never get into the quagmire that is Afghanistan. Iran might stay American aligned if the Iranian Revolution is put down and the Shah is restored. The Arab World remains under the control of Secular Dictators and the rise of Radical Islam is crushed and never becomes a major issue until the mid-21st Century.

The 1980s are the Reagan Era (as hinted in Fallout 2 which mentions the economy at its best since the Reagan Era). A tougher stance on China is made while Gorbachev-esque leaders in the USSR pursue closer ties to America. No Chernobyl in 1986 so Nuclear Power's reputation is saved and continues to be a popular form of energy.

The 1990s see the Soviet Union enter an economic recession which sees it slowly lose its superpower influence and China to fill in the gaps with funding communist groups throughout Africa (which went through decolonization like in OTL). The U.S. might provide some financial aid to keep the USSR from collapsing since its a good buffer state against China.

The 2000s see a technological renaissance with new robots and other atom-punk technology appearing in the markets around the West. First prototype robot servants are invented. The European Commonwealth comes into being.

Finally by the year 2017 in the Fallout-Verse, the United States is enjoying a period of economic growth with the beginnings of colonization of the moon (as seen from the Museum of History in Fallout 4 which mentions moon-bases), China is looking to catch up and has its own space program. The Soviet Union is beginning to stagnate and while still considered a military superpower, many foreign affairs experts see the USSR as a shadow of its former self as it's unable to exert itself on the globe as much due to financial strains. Ethnic tensions run high in the nation and the Warsaw Pact is looking to collapse any second now with plans by the Soviets themselves to let go of most of the Eastern Bloc except East Germany, Czechoslovakia, and Romania.

That sums up my interpretation of how things went, I know there's a lot of holes in this but this is a rough sketch. What do you think?

 

[weeb]

My take: The 1950s proceed much like in OTL, maybe Joseph McCarthy is assassinated by a communist agitator around 1954 which makes McCarthyism seem justified and there are no Army hearings so McCarthy's reputation is saved. Stalin still dies off in 1953, Ike becomes President, the Korean War could have gone in a full American victory and no North Korea but tensions with China rise due to encroaching U.S. presence on its border. In 1960 Nixon becomes President, initiates Civil Rights but the Hippie culture is looked down as possible communist sympathizers and crushed. The Vietnam War could have escalated into the U.S. declaring war on North Vietnam (In Fallout:Tactics which is semi-canon, a radio broadcast is heard of the U.S. declaring war on Vietnam). The outcome of the war could've resulted in a second-Korea style with China once again interfering militarily by sending troops down and eventually sparking a permanent stalemate by the late 1960s say 1968. China's intervention in the Vietnam War further sparks tensions between America and China.

The Sino-Soviet Split still occurs around 1961, China makes an Atomic Bomb around the same time in 1964. China still has occasional border disputes and battles with the Soviets throughout the 1960s-1970s. Nixon might make the opposite decision to visit the Soviet Union instead of China to meet Premier Khrushchev and the Soviet Union begins to liberalize to lessen nuclear tensions with America especially with the threat of a resurgent China which is beginning to become the third superpower. After Mao's death in 1976, the Gang of Four successfully take power and purge many officials who would liberalize China in OTL like Deng Xiaoping.

Cuba's Revolution is a failure, the Bay of Pigs invasion is a success and Cuba is brought back under American influence so no Cuban Missile Crisis. No Cuban Missile Crisis could mean Khrushchev isn't ousted in a coup in 1964 and thus his reforms continue. The Hardliners in the Soviet Union are slowly removed over the course of the 20th Century.

The 1970s see tension in the Middle East with wars like the Six-Day War and the Yom Kippur War occurring. Detente with the Soviet Union never ends, the Soviets never get into the quagmire that is Afghanistan. Iran might stay American aligned if the Iranian Revolution is put down and the Shah is restored. The Arab World remains under the control of Secular Dictators and the rise of Radical Islam is crushed and never becomes a major issue until the mid-21st Century.

The 1980s are the Reagan Era (as hinted in Fallout 2 which mentions the economy at its best since the Reagan Era). A tougher stance on China is made while Gorbachev-esque leaders in the USSR pursue closer ties to America. No Chernobyl in 1986 so Nuclear Power's reputation is saved and continues to be a popular form of energy.

The 1990s see the Soviet Union enter an economic recession which sees it slowly lose its superpower influence and China to fill in the gaps with funding communist groups throughout Africa (which went through decolonization like in OTL). The U.S. might provide some financial aid to keep the USSR from collapsing since its a good buffer state against China.

The 2000s see a technological renaissance with new robots and other atom-punk technology appearing in the markets around the West. First prototype robot servants are invented. The European Commonwealth comes into being.

Finally by the year 2017 in the Fallout-Verse, the United States is enjoying a period of economic growth with the beginnings of colonization of the moon (as seen from the Museum of History in Fallout 4 which mentions moon-bases), China is looking to catch up and has its own space program. The Soviet Union is beginning to stagnate and while still considered a military superpower, many foreign affairs experts see the USSR as a shadow of its former self as it's unable to exert itself on the globe as much due to financial strains. Ethnic tensions run high in the nation and the Warsaw Pact is looking to collapse any second now with plans by the Soviets themselves to let go of most of the Eastern Bloc except East Germany, Czechoslovakia, and Romania.

That sums up my interpretation of how things went, I know there's a lot of holes in this but this is a rough sketch. What do you think?

I personally believe that the Warsaw Pact goes Kaput about the same time OTL, maybe Romania survives with some weird Ceaușescu Fallout!Science. Also I personally see the Soviets as an American ally, not a pseudo-puppet state as you have them here. Oh, and somehow China does even better than OTL, as they are listed as the only real rival to the USA by the 2060's, so assuming the Gang of Four take power ( I like the idea), Maoism stays alive due to some, again, weird Fallout!Science stuff from Beijing. Otherwise, cool interpretation.

 

[Darksider166]

I personally believe that the Warsaw Pact goes Kaput about the same time OTL, maybe Romania survives with some weird Ceaușescu Fallout!Science. Also I personally see the Soviets as an American ally, not a pseudo-puppet state as you have them here. Oh, and somehow China does even better than OTL, as they are listed as the only real rival to the USA by the 2060's, so assuming the Gang of Four take power ( I like the idea), Maoism stays alive due to some, again, weird Fallout!Science stuff from Beijing. Otherwise, cool interpretation.

Thanks, yeah I might phrase it a little better regarding the Soviets, I didn't intend them to be a pseudo-puppet state I just figured providing some economic aid would help better relations with the Soviets and also a bit of realpolitik since both countries share a mutual hatred of China. But do keep in mind that as far as the public is concerned the Soviets are no better than the Chinese, only maybe slightly better but in secret both countries are allies (The U.S. can't just come out and say it's allied with its greatest enemy).

Regarding China, I can imagine the Maoists in power would eventually moderate a bit (at least in the sciences) by the late 1980s to early 1990s once the technological gap becomes ever
more apparent with America and with Korea in American hands and the Soviets against them, the Maoists in charge realize that China is in a very fragile state geopolitically. So a Khrushchev-lite reformer might come in power and lay off some of Mao's policies. China wouldn't devolve back into full Maoism in everything but the sciences until the Resource Wars when the government cracks down and basically becomes a massive North Korea like state to keep the populace in line especially with overpopulation and food shortages. Might see programs that would make the Great Leap Forward and Cultural Revolution look simple by comparison as I can imagine China might see the complete genocide of tens of millions through starvation as a good thing (hey plenty of bodies means more fertilizer for crops and open space and less mouths to feed). I mean in the Point Lookout DLC with the Chinese spy side quest the PA system in the secret bunker tells you that as it fills the chamber with poison gas that the agent's family will get their ration cards as the reward which gives a hint of things in China and in the various Southeastern Asian nations China annexed, China could pull off a bunch of Pol Pot style killing fields and flood them with Chinese settlers and also experiment on the populations to create supersoldiers in their war against America. Also plenty of non-stop wars will keep the populace distracted and also down with millions of casualties.

 

[BootOnFace]

I like the idea that China actually went through the same reforms as OTL and became a titan economically, but peak oil and the collapse of Europe broke the economy and the CPC decided to crack down like the American government did. China was powerful enough to seize Alaska and keep it for years, I doubt a Maoist regime could lift up China technologically and economically enough to seriously rival America in overseas operations. Remember they supplied Alaska overseas while America had an overland route. Until the introduction of Power Armor, America was clearly losing.

 

[Berkeley2017]

I like the idea that China actually went through the same reforms as OTL and became a titan economically, but peak oil and the collapse of Europe broke the economy and the CPC decided to crack down like the American government did. China was powerful enough to seize Alaska and keep it for years, I doubt a Maoist regime could lift up China technologically and economically enough to seriously rival America in overseas operations. Remember they supplied Alaska overseas while America had an overland route. Until the introduction of Power Armor, America was clearly losing.

Same. I'm having trouble imagining how mega-North Korea China under continued Maoist rule can rise to challenge the US. Though I think Fallout TL implied that China was always Maoist

 

[Isaac Beach]

I'm pretty sure there is a counter culture, for what it's worth, based on the graffiti of peace symbols and anti-war slogans in several of the Fallout games. (I haven't played 4, but they're definitely in New Vegas) It would probably come about under different circumstances, and mustn't have been as influential as OTL, but it still exists in some form.