Very unlikely. Far too many poles there.It seems like they had plans to create a puppet state out of poland. But how likley would it be that the Germans would try to restore the post partition Prussian borders. To show a greater expansion of the metropol to better sell the war to their people
Forgot to say that this map is also incorrect because it features the standard trope of A-H annexing Venice, which they never intended to do.They intended to annex a portion of its north and west and then puppetize what remained of it, I recall reading that Poles from the annexed areas would be expelled, and the area would be colonized by ethnic Germans, much like what would be later attempted in WW2.
I sadly do not have a good map for this but the "Septemberprogramm" search brings some up.
It seems like they had plans to create a puppet state out of poland. But how likley would it be that the Germans would try to restore the post partition Prussian borders. To show a greater expansion of the metropol to better sell the war to their people
Personally I think once the war ended Hindy and Ludy would be removed from political power the minimum annexation would be the one that would get up, while the rest of Poland would be incorporated into the MittelEuropa scheme.
do you have a map of hoffmans proposal?Congress Poland would become a German client state. There would also be *some* modifications of the German border with Congress Poland--anything from Ludendorff's "Polish border strip" to Hoffmann's proposal of modest border changes "to improve the defences of Thorn, Soldau, and the Upper Silesian coal mines." https://books.google.com/books?id=J2spDwAAQBAJ&pg=PA63 The Kaiser immediately approved of Hoffmann's proposal.
As Hoffmann wrote, "I was an enemy of any settlement of the Polish question which would increase in Germany the number of subjects of Polish nationality. Notwithstanding the measures that Prussia had taken during many decades, we had not been able to manage the Poles we have, and I could not see the advantage of any addition to the number of citizens of that nationality. " https://books.google.com/books?id=n8-mDwAAQBAJ&pg=PT272
In general, in 1917 trhe idea of a border strip from which all Poles and Jews would be driven and Germans resettled seems to have fallen into disfavor, or at least the extent of the strip was pared down. https://books.google.com/books?id=MATeDwAAQBAJ&pg=PT31 But with the improvement of the situation on the Eastern Front in 1918, ambitious resettlement and expropriation plans may again have become thinkable.
If any maps of the various proposals for the "Polish Border Strip" or smaller concessions actually exist, I've never been able to find one, at least not one in any detail.... I'd be interested in this as well....do you have a map of hoffmans proposal?
I agree on this... the duumvirate would not survive much past the end of the war.Late in the war there was argument about how much Polish territory to actually annex. Hindy and Ludy wanted to annex a big strip of some 30,000km2 and expel some 3 million people, in contrast others particularly Max Hoffmann with the support of the Kaiser only wanted to annex very small parts of Poland to keep a couple of key railway towns needed for mobilisation such as Torn out of artillery range. The Kaiser, knowing what H&L wanted pressed Hoffmann for his opinion on the Polish border and had to order Hoffmann to give his opinion, which the Kaiser agreed with, but when the Kaiser told Ludy he went ballistic and tried to demote Hoffman and told the Kaiser that he had no say in the matter.
Personally I think once the war ended Hindy and Ludy would be removed from political power the minimum annexation would be the one that would get up, while the rest of Poland would be incorporated into the MittelEuropa scheme.
As with much of the CP occupation of the East, I think they were "winging it" .... Taking a very much ad hoc approach until the smoke settles and the dust clears....
Congress Poland would become a German client state. There would also be *some* modifications of the German border with Congress Poland--anything from Ludendorff's "Polish border strip" to Hoffmann's proposal of modest border changes "to improve the defences of Thorn, Soldau, and the Upper Silesian coal mines." https://books.google.com/books?id=J2spDwAAQBAJ&pg=PA63 The Kaiser immediately approved of Hoffmann's proposal.
As Hoffmann wrote, "I was an enemy of any settlement of the Polish question which would increase in Germany the number of subjects of Polish nationality. Notwithstanding the measures that Prussia had taken during many decades, we had not been able to manage the Poles we have, and I could not see the advantage of any addition to the number of citizens of that nationality. " https://books.google.com/books?id=n8-mDwAAQBAJ&pg=PT272
In general, in 1917 trhe idea of a border strip from which all Poles and Jews would be driven and Germans resettled seems to have fallen into disfavor, or at least the extent of the strip was pared down. https://books.google.com/books?id=MATeDwAAQBAJ&pg=PT31 But with the improvement of the situation on the Eastern Front in 1918, ambitious resettlement and expropriation plans may again have become thinkable.
do you have a map of hoffmans proposal?
It'd be pretty easy to rig up if you can do maps, jjust get the 1914 borders and draw a 15-km circle around Thorn. Soldau and the Upper Silesian coalmines to attach them to Germany.
You mean something like this?
The purpose of these annexations is to better defend those strategic places. But is that still relevant if the whole of Poland becomes part of 'Mitteleuropa', i.e. forms a buffer state against Russia?
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