What is the best result the Western Allies can achieve after Pearl Harbour?

Sorairo

After Pearl Harbour (and let's say for argument's sake that Hitler still declares war) what would be the single most effective strategy for British and American military planners to win the more as quickly and advantageously as possible, perhaps avoiding things like the Soviet occupation of East Europe, or less overall deaths in the war, etc.

In other words, if you could go back in time and have complete control of the Western Allies's war effort, what would you do?
 

Riain

Banned
Zheng He's TL Alternate Indian Ocean is a great example of what can be done after PH, and that's after a failed Malaya campaign.
 

CaliGuy

Banned
Sorairo said:
After Pearl Harbour (and let's say for argument's sake that Hitler still declares war) what would be the single most effective strategy for British and American military planners to win the more as quickly and advantageously as possible, perhaps avoiding things like the Soviet occupation of East Europe, or less overall deaths in the war, etc.

In other words, if you could go back in time and have complete control of the Western Allies's war effort, what would you do?
Click to expand...
Frankly, I'm unsure that I could actually do much in regards to this; after all, wasn't the success of D-Day logistically impossible before 1944?
 

CaliGuy

Banned
Indeed, perhaps dropping the demand for unconditional surrender and secretly courting anti-Hitler Germans in high places might be the best move for you; however, that could also result in even more Soviet distrust--something which could certainly have nasty consequences later on. :(
 

hzn5pk

Go through the soft underbelly of Europe.
Americans land in Italy harder after Scic. Brits land in Dalmatia after Scic.
Drive to capture Trieste and Venice for main supply ports.

US lands in southern France in 1944 and then in Calais as the anvil part. So Overlord and Anvil are reversed.

Allies would get Yugo in allied camp. Perhaps even Hungary, Czech, Austria as well.

Turks come in with Allies. Take out Bulgaria and help with Hungary.

Romania, Slovakia, Poland and East Get are in Soviet Bloc.

More concentrated city destruction of Germany industrial cities like the fire bombing of Dresdon.
 

zert

Save Wake Island, destroy more ships in the Lae raids, be successful with early raids on Rabaul, sink the Zuikaku and Shokaku at Coral Sea, and sink more ships and transports at Midway. A huge plus would be to figure out the problems with US torpedoes and FIX them.
 

Jukra

Sorairo said:
After Pearl Harbour (and let's say for argument's sake that Hitler still declares war) what would be the single most effective strategy for British and American military planners to win the more as quickly and advantageously as possible, perhaps avoiding things like the Soviet occupation of East Europe, or less overall deaths in the war, etc.

In other words, if you could go back in time and have complete control of the Western Allies's war effort, what would you do?
Click to expand...

True Europe First -strategy. Instead of offensives in the Pacific, starting in late summer of 1942 just strangle them with subs and occasional carrier raids. Invasion of Europe will be accelerated by a year.
 

Magnum

Sack Arthur Percival, send someone competent to Malaya, order a full-out retreat to Singapore, evacuate Singaporean civilians to Sumatra, issue 'fight to the last man' orders and let junior officers know that any commander contemplating surrender is to be relieved of command. Singapore holds, Japanese logistics start breaking down, and allied reinforcements land to the Japanese rear in northern Malaya some time later, winning the campaign.

Then, in a couple of months, Japan's war effort collapses due to their fuel reserves running out.


EDIT: Also, have 4th Armored Division be more aggressive in its flanking move on December 15th, and most of Rommel's Afrika Korps is annihilated, thus allowing forces from Egypt to be moved to Malaya sometime in February
 

hzn5pk

Agree with Jurka on Euro first.

Perhaps USA is a little better off in the first six months after Pearl.

Army units that were to be part of the Pacific are sent to Europe in later '42 and '43 and '44.

Pac becomes navy/marines and allies go through italy, south france, and Yugoslavia to bring the Reich down.

In the pac, USA first secures Aus., then works to isolate japan, island hop in central Pac with goal of capturing Marianas as bomber bases. Truman committee is able to bring attention to the torpedoes a little sooner. Questions raised in June 1942. Torpedos improved sooner.
 

Bill the Hyena

The minute he hears about Pearl Harbor. Douglas MacArthur, disperses all his aircraft to protect them form air attack. Also perhaps has a few in the air to meet the Japanese when they attack.
 

Carl Schwamberger

Brits & US leaders tell theiir air chiefs to stuff it and provide three or four dozen VLR aircraft for Atlantic ASW warfare. The mid Atlantic Gap never develops as a viable zone for the Germans & the battle of the Atlantic is clearly won by the Autum of 1942.

Allies figure out the Convoy Code has been compromised far earlier & shut Donitz out of that message traffic.

Defense of PI is better & Japanese cannot sent forces from there on to Indonesia until after May 42.

British hold Maylasia & Yamashita fails to invest Singapore. Further delay in Japanese occupation of key Indonesian locations. Indonesian oil industry is further damaged.

Japanese offensive into Burma is better defended against & the Commonwealth forces retreat later & not all the way to India.

Yamamoto does not call off the pursuit of the US fleet on the night of the 4/5 June. The surface fleet is caught by the US carriers in daylight and hammered, with a few more ships sunk and a lot more damaged from 1000lb bomb hits. The US carrier withdraw to refit & Yamamoto thinks he has won & compounds his error by ordering the landing force ashore on Midway. The landing force gains a toe hold but is pinned down & the invasion fleet dithers another day. The Saratoga arrives & replenishes the Hornets air wing with is deck overload. The three carriers trash the Japanese invasion force. Yamamotos main fleet has been withdrawing to the west & wastes more precious fuel in a futile attempt to return east to save the invasion fleet.

Brits break the code on a competent commander for 8th Army & the Axis Lybian army is stalemated and attrtioned away by mid 1942.

Operation Gymnast is executed in late summer 1942, forcing the French to choose, leading to the end of the Vichy government as a viable entity & formation of a larger Free French entity sooner. Axis at this time had insuffcient forces for a effective counter move into French North Africa. the Axis position in Africa collapses at the end of 1942.

I could go on but the dog needs walking.
 

Carl Schwamberger

After seeing Africa cleared at the end of 1942 the Allies determine to invade Europe at multiple points in 43. A two pronged invasion of France is set for mid 1943 & a commander & staff set up. Preparatory operations include securing Sardinia/Corsica in February & March & a diversion operation against Crete & other points in the Balkans & Italy. A air offensive based in both the Mediterranean and UK is started to draw down the Axis air strength and isolate the projected battlefields in France.

In the summer of 43 two amphibious operations are executed on the French coast. The objectives are to establish enclaves in North Western and Southern France & secure ports. The larger objective is to build up four army groups ashore by the spring of 1944, attrition the Axis air and ground forces, and prepare for a major offensive to secure western Europe in 1944.

In the east the Red Army has during 1943 driven the Axis armies away from the Moscow Lenningrad regions, recaptured most of the Urkraine

The Italian economy is in freefall & Mussolini is deposed in the autum of 1943. The new Italian government enters into negotiations with the Allies. German forces abandon Italy & sent to France & the East to deal with the enemy pressing in there. By the end of 1943 Italy is effectively nuetralized. Residual German operations in the Med are of token value. The Allies prepare at leisure for a diversionary offensive into southern Europe in early 1944.

In January/February 44 small diversionary operations are executed in the Balkans and Allied occupation army lands in italy. Germany withdraws forces from other fronts to occupy northern Italy & fight the Allies on that front. Allied deception ops convince the German leaders a invasion of Norway is immenent.

By the Big Week of January 1944 the German air forces are defeated in the west. The west Allies have built up some 40 army divisions in their French lodgements and can expect to add 24 more by the end of June 1944.

In March of 1944 the Allied offensives in France kick off & after some 60 days fighting the German position collapses. In May or June a large scale offensive kicks off in the east & the Red Army rolls over the remainder of German occupied USSR. Through the late spring the west Allies advance across France & Belgium, reaching the German borders by June.

Hitler & a few other key nazi leaders are assasinated, throwing the German government into chaos. Centralized leadership collapses. In the west key German leaders fail to oppose the Allies, the Rhine is crossed in August at multiple points. In September Operation Eclipse is executed & Berlin is captured, leading to the surrender of disjointed groups of German armies across Europe.

In the Pacific the US central offensive is started in November 1943 aiming at the Marianas Islands. The gamble of bypassing the Gilbert Islands pays off as the IJN has to little fuel to execute long distance operations. A Japanese attempt to force a decisive naval victory further west repeatedly fails. By mis 1944 the US is preparing for invading Okinawa & subsidiary operations to the Phillipines in the remainder of the year.
 
History Learner

History Learner

Banned
The 17th Indian Division is allowed to cross the Sittang bridge when it was requested by its commander, allowing them to establish a defensive position that holds the Japanese long enough for Commonwealth and Chinese reinforcements to arrive. The Japanese invasion of Burma thus fails, keeping the Burma Road open and supplying the Nationalists.
 

ben0628

Banned
In Pacific:

-British maintain control of Malaya peninsula and Burma (Burma road is never cut, China resists better).
-Douglas Mac Arthur defends the Phillipines better and slows the Japanese advance.
-No Southwest Pacific Campaign. Upon achieving naval superiority, the US should focus solely on a Central Pacific Campaign and head straight to Japan.

In Europe:
-Put more resources in anti submarine warfare and win the Battle of the Atlantic earlier.
-After invading North Africa and Sicily, have a much bigger invasion of Italy.
-Follow up Italian invasion with a massive invasion of South France and a invasion on Greece/Albania.
 

Riain

Banned
I think the very first thing I'd do is stop this stupid little regatta.

MapB1941-SEAsia-ForceZ.GIF


WTF was Phillips doing trolling around off Vietnam with no air cover or recon!? If Force Z was needed then it should have gone close to the coast directly to where the reports of landing were, if not it should have waited for the arrival of HMS Exeter and HMAS Hobart and their destroyers. Even if Malaya still fell Force Z could have been at the Battle of Java Sea and caused serious damage to the IJN forces there.
 
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