Note that the British did not really intend for Québec to be a francophone-dominated province in the long term. In the XIX century, a number of places in Canada (not only Québec but also Ontario, Manitoba, New Brunswick, North-west territories) granted legal privileges to both anglophones and francophones. But as anglophone settlers gained the demographic advantage, gradually francophone rights were rescinded. Québec was the exception, because there, the anglophones there never managed to become the majority. To the surprise of the British, most of the Irish settlers they sent to Québec ended up assimilating into the francophone population, when they were expecting the reverse to happen.
What if the US made a Jewish state to send Jewish immigrants too during the major immigrant wave of the late 1800s
- Thread starter VEN212
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Note that the British did not really intend for Québec to be a francophone-dominated province in the long term. In the XIX century, a number of places in Canada (not only Québec but also Ontario, Manitoba, New Brunswick, North-west territories) granted legal privileges to both anglophones and francophones. But as anglophone settlers gained the demographic advantage, gradually francophone rights were rescinded. Québec was the exception, because there, the anglophones there never managed to become the majority. To the surprise of the British, most of the Irish settlers they sent to Québec ended up assimilating into the francophone population, when they were expecting the reverse to happen.
I really don't think this would happen. The focus for immigrants in America, especially European immigrants and especially in the late 19th/early 20th centuries, was assimilation. A state specifically designed for habitation by Jewish people runs counter to that.
raharris1973
Gone Fishin'
I would have to question whether anti-semitism was any more prevalent among German-Americans than among English-Americans, Scottish-Americans, Irish-Americans, or Americans of any other particular European heritage.
Deleted member 109224
Having the Territorialist Faction of the Zionist movement pick a territory out west where nobody seems to want to move to would perhaps work - especially if you have some folks like Jacob Schiff financing it.
How about a Jewish Wyoming? The climate isn't all that different from the pale of settlement and the population was only 20,000 in 1880, 62,000 in 1890. The territory was so desperate for people that it granted women's suffrage in 1869 (the first place in the US to do so) in the hope that women would move there.
How about a Jewish Wyoming? The climate isn't all that different from the pale of settlement and the population was only 20,000 in 1880, 62,000 in 1890. The territory was so desperate for people that it granted women's suffrage in 1869 (the first place in the US to do so) in the hope that women would move there.
AHC: a Masada-like fortress, temple, or monastery atop Devil's Tower, built by any group of your choice (Jewish settlers, Basque settlers, Mormons, Navajo, Buddhist monks, etc)
This would require a POD earlier than the late 1800s to avoid constitutional concerns. Now you could I guess have a lot of Jews settling in one area, and have that area push for statehood, but it would not be admitted if it insisted on being a legally Jewish state rather than merely one with a large Jewish population.
Deleted member 109224
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The Na Nachs are into meditation and techno.
I don't think most Jews trying to set up a state would have an issue with that. Israel was founded by atheist democratic socialists who principally saw their Judaism in ethnic terms, for example.
This may sound, well, insane in the light of more recent history and the association of Antebellum nostalgia with neo-Nazi antisemitism (trying hard to avoid any current issues here, after all, all this shite should've been by now relegated to the remote past), but you COULD work this idea into a "Confederate Wank".... after all, the CSA did count J P Benjamin and David Levy Yulee among its ranks... maybe the sparsely-populated South Florida split off as a state to encourage Jewish settlement? And even Confederate-wank aside, maybe the former CSA state division holds after the rebellious states are brought back into the Union... after all we still have a Virginia and West Virginia today, though created under markedly different circumstances than this hypothetical...
The major issue with this is that Jewish immigration was an overwhelmingly urban phenomenon. Meaning that Jews came from urban small and medium-sized cities where they entered the work force as tailors, milliners etc.
The majority of the pre-1880 Jewish immigration came from urban areas of Western Germany and as a result, few were prepared to farm. Most settled in cities and particularly in New York City with many becoming successful in commerce and finance. Some of these families branched out to form the large retail establishments throughout many U.S. cities. Between the 1880s and 1920s when the bulk of Jewish immigration to the U.S. arrived, the majority came from the Pale of Settlement under Russian rule where they were largely banned from agriculture. They also came in large numbers from Austria-Hungary, particularly Galicia, and to a lesser extent Rumania and the Ottoman Empire. These were often much poorer, though with their background as skilled and semi-skilled workers, sought out jobs in New York City,
Poorer and less "westernised" than German Jewry they often helped make New York City the capital of America's garment industry. In 1880, only 10% of America's clothing factories were located in New York City. By 1910 this had risen 47%, with Jews constituting 80% of the hat makers, 75% of furriers, 68% of tailors, and 60% the milliners. The other large field would be as merchants, with many becoming peddlers and cart pushers, grocers, bakers and butchers.
By 1920, half of America's Jewish population was concentrated in New York City, and if we add the other cities along the Boston-Washington corridor that number concentrated nearly 70% of all American Jews. If you add the then booming cities of Chicago, Cleveland, St Louis and Detroit, you have nearly 90% of all American Jews concentrated in the large urban areas of the country. In New York, by 1930 they had become the largest ethnic group at just under 1/3rd of the population in the city, and nearly half of the population in the Bronx, and representing over one-third of the population of the Bronx and over one-fourth of that of Manhattan.
Even Jews who remained in Europe tended to migrate to London, Paris, Vienna, Prague and Berlin. In Canada too, the majority of Jews migrated to Montreal and Toronto with those in South America remaining around Buenos Aires and São Paulo.
The majority of the pre-1880 Jewish immigration came from urban areas of Western Germany and as a result, few were prepared to farm. Most settled in cities and particularly in New York City with many becoming successful in commerce and finance. Some of these families branched out to form the large retail establishments throughout many U.S. cities. Between the 1880s and 1920s when the bulk of Jewish immigration to the U.S. arrived, the majority came from the Pale of Settlement under Russian rule where they were largely banned from agriculture. They also came in large numbers from Austria-Hungary, particularly Galicia, and to a lesser extent Rumania and the Ottoman Empire. These were often much poorer, though with their background as skilled and semi-skilled workers, sought out jobs in New York City,
Poorer and less "westernised" than German Jewry they often helped make New York City the capital of America's garment industry. In 1880, only 10% of America's clothing factories were located in New York City. By 1910 this had risen 47%, with Jews constituting 80% of the hat makers, 75% of furriers, 68% of tailors, and 60% the milliners. The other large field would be as merchants, with many becoming peddlers and cart pushers, grocers, bakers and butchers.
By 1920, half of America's Jewish population was concentrated in New York City, and if we add the other cities along the Boston-Washington corridor that number concentrated nearly 70% of all American Jews. If you add the then booming cities of Chicago, Cleveland, St Louis and Detroit, you have nearly 90% of all American Jews concentrated in the large urban areas of the country. In New York, by 1930 they had become the largest ethnic group at just under 1/3rd of the population in the city, and nearly half of the population in the Bronx, and representing over one-third of the population of the Bronx and over one-fourth of that of Manhattan.
Even Jews who remained in Europe tended to migrate to London, Paris, Vienna, Prague and Berlin. In Canada too, the majority of Jews migrated to Montreal and Toronto with those in South America remaining around Buenos Aires and São Paulo.
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Martinus Padueius
Banned
Yes but his whole point is, why would they go there? How are you going to induce them to move out to the middle of nowhere, Wyoming? The US has benefited much more by accepting Jews into big cities at the centers of industry and entertainment (or so I think). They might even stay in Europe if they know Wyoming is waiting for them. And the US has never been a nation for forced population transfers and internal passporting except in the case of native Americans and to a smaller extent blacks (sundown towns, etc.). Once Jews are here, they can go anywhere they want.
The premise of the question is flawed. Alternate history necessarily leads from cause and effect except in cases of ASB. The proposed cause here (a US state "set aside" for Jews) is itself an effect with no possible cause. From the outset the US is (increasingly: was) a federal republic, there won't be any advocacy for population transfers into a state that is mostly self governing. You could make the case for a territory, but that doesn't make sense either. The US never regulated movement of "desirables". Even the Mormon expulsions were as I understand it a result of local communities' intolerance of Mormons. As New Yorkers and other big city dwellers are relatively tolerant of Jews, there's no reason for Jews to move west en masse to the point they become a majority in a state or territory.
Dear funnyhat,
OTL, Irish assimilation in Quebec was more complicated.
Many remained split between Orangemen and Irish Catholics. The earlier and wealthier Irish settlers tended to be Scots-Irish Orangemen who assimilated with the Scots who built the Hudson Bay Company and major banks. Scots-Irish were more likely to be farmers, land-owners or businessmen. One of my ancestors stepped off a ship - at Quebec City - in 1840 and walked 100 miles due south the clear some of the last farmland east of the Mississippi River.
Poor Irish Catholic refugees only arrived in large numbers after the 1848 Potato Famine. Poor Irish Catholics were more likely to take low-paying factory jobs and settle in the working-class neighborhoods of Montreal, where they were more likely to assimilate with French-Canadians. Montreal was Canada's largest and most ethnically-diverse city until 1970.
Many Quebec cities supported three or four school boards split between English Catholic (Irish), Roman Catholic (French-speaking), right-wing Protestant (small minorities) and English/open (tax-funded) school boards.
OTOH many small, out-lying Quebec towns remained unilingual French Catholic.
OTL, Irish assimilation in Quebec was more complicated.
Many remained split between Orangemen and Irish Catholics. The earlier and wealthier Irish settlers tended to be Scots-Irish Orangemen who assimilated with the Scots who built the Hudson Bay Company and major banks. Scots-Irish were more likely to be farmers, land-owners or businessmen. One of my ancestors stepped off a ship - at Quebec City - in 1840 and walked 100 miles due south the clear some of the last farmland east of the Mississippi River.
Poor Irish Catholic refugees only arrived in large numbers after the 1848 Potato Famine. Poor Irish Catholics were more likely to take low-paying factory jobs and settle in the working-class neighborhoods of Montreal, where they were more likely to assimilate with French-Canadians. Montreal was Canada's largest and most ethnically-diverse city until 1970.
Many Quebec cities supported three or four school boards split between English Catholic (Irish), Roman Catholic (French-speaking), right-wing Protestant (small minorities) and English/open (tax-funded) school boards.
OTOH many small, out-lying Quebec towns remained unilingual French Catholic.
I don't see how this could be done legally (1st amendment) or poltically (other minorities would want their own states too) and likely cause more anti-semitism from resentment as people would be saying "Why do the Jews get their own state and we don't?"
Afterall, I only do these for fun The whole idea is absurd. The United States has never been an apartheid state. We don't reserve territory for ethnic, or religious groups. If you permit someone to immigrate to American they can live in any State or Territory they want. American Citizens can't be prevented from moving anywhere they want to.
Alcsentre Calanice
Gone Fishin'
And even a totalitarian state like the Soviet Union never managed to make its Jewish Autonomous Territory actually Jewish.
In a timeline where the U.S. did designate certain states for certain ethnic groups, I don't think any group would have much luck trying to establish 'their' state in the North-East. Even though they'd become an ever smaller group demographically, the WASPs were still firmly in control of the North East until the 60's or so, and I doubt they'd acquiesce their greatest cities willingly.
The only place such states would be remotely feasible is in the Western United States.
Britain elected a Jewish Prime Minister in the 1870s so can't have been too anti-Semitic of a culture.
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