What if the Russian Revolution (1917-1923) had failed?

Deleted member 168499

On 1917, the Bolsheviks rose up against the Russian Empire and its government. They wanted Russia to end their involvement in World War I. The revolution ended with the Bolsheviks winning. A provisional government was created, which was then overthrown by the Bolsheviks because the new government continued to fight in World War I. The Soviet Union was then created, and a civil war soon began.

In an alternate timeline, let's imagine the Russian Revolution failed. The Bolsheviks were crushed, and Tsar Nicholas II continued to rule on. What would happen in such a timeline? Would a second revolution happen (Most likely, the real question is how long until a new revolution?), would the Russians be able to hold their position in the Eastern Front? Would the fall to the German Empire, or invade Berlin?

If anyone would like to start a conversation in the comments of this thread, that would be appreciated! Let's find out what may have happened if the Russian Revolution had failed!
 

kham_coc

Banned
What do you mean?
Do you mean a WI, the provisional goverment makes peace right away, (only way it can) and then manages to stick around?
Do you mean a white victory (the only realistic way to return a, not the czar, to a, again, not the, throne?)
Or do you mean the czar just stays in power (presumably by making peace right away, and then quashing dissent) ?

Russia continuing the fight for 8 months is very unlikely to have any more impact than otl, and a savaged Russia emerging from versailes a "victor" is still not going to be happy, and is likely to be just as revisionist as otl.
 

Deleted member 168499

kham_coc said:
What do you mean?
Do you mean a WI, the provisional goverment makes peace right away, (only way it can) and then manages to stick around?
Do you mean a white victory (the only realistic way to return a, not the czar, to a, again, not the, throne?)
Or do you mean the czar just stays in power (presumably by making peace right away, and then quashing dissent) ?

Russia continuing the fight for 8 months is very unlikely to have any more impact than otl, and a savaged Russia emerging from versailes a "victor" is still not going to be happy, and is likely to be just as revisionist as otl.
Click to expand...
I was referring to a White Victory against the Bolsheviks in which Tsar Nicholas II is able to continue to rule. Of course he might not be able to rule for a long time, as I'm certain a second revolution would probably try to happen after the first. Do you have any ideas of how long he would last on the throne after a White Victory?
 

czareason

Alternate History Man said:
I was referring to a White Victory against the Bolsheviks in which Tsar Nicholas II is able to continue to rule. Of course he might not be able to rule for a long time, as I'm certain a second revolution would probably try to happen after the first. Do you have any ideas of how long he would last on the throne after a White Victory?
Click to expand...
If Nicholas II and his supporters learn little or nothing from the revolt, yes there would be another revolution in about a generation. If they do learn their lesson then the Russian Empire will survive with Nicholas as a constitutional monarch.
 

Deleted member 168499

czareason said:
If Nicholas II and his supporters learn little or nothing from the revolt, yes there would be another revolution in about a generation. If they do learn their lesson then the Russian Empire will survive with Nicholas as a constitutional monarch.
Click to expand...
Okay. Let's say that Tsar Nicholas II and his friends learn their lesson, and the Russian Empire survives, then there is one question. How would the Eastern Front of World War I go? Personally, I think that maybe the Russians would succeed and steamroll the Germans out. But maybe the Germans might even do something that could change the course of the Eastern Front. If the Russians pushed the Germans out of Russia, would they invade Berlin?
 

Crueldwarf

Alternate History Man said:
I was referring to a White Victory against the Bolsheviks in which Tsar Nicholas II is able to continue to rule. Of course he might not be able to rule for a long time, as I'm certain a second revolution would probably try to happen after the first. Do you have any ideas of how long he would last on the throne after a White Victory?
Click to expand...
Whites in general weren't supporters of restoration of monarchy and especially return of Nicholas II to the throne. Whites were the ones who ousted him in the first place. So White victory in Russian Civil war do not bring monarchy back.
 

Deleted member 168499

Crueldwarf said:
Whites in general weren't supporters of restoration of monarchy and especially return of Nicholas II to the throne. Whites were the ones who ousted him in the first place. So White victory in Russian Civil war do not bring monarchy back.
Click to expand...
When I asked the question, I meant "White" as in government. Let's say that some of the loyal soldiers to the Russian Empire had stood with loyalty towards Tsar Nicholas II, and they helped fight the rebels. Then the revolution ends with Tsar Nicholas II as Tsar. In our timeline, the Russian Civil War did not bring back the monarchy. But if in an alternate timeline the revolution failed, then there would be no civil war.
 

kham_coc

Banned
Alternate History Man said:
I was referring to a White Victory against the Bolsheviks in which Tsar Nicholas II is able to continue to rule. Of course he might not be able to rule for a long time, as I'm certain a second revolution would probably try to happen after the first. Do you have any ideas of how long he would last on the throne after a White Victory?
Click to expand...
If the whites emerge victorious in 1923, (and they aren't republican whites) then he (or someone else) is probably there for a long time - That being said, with no executive powers.
If we are just talking a provisional government where he is somehow still around, i don't know enough, maybe maybe? but probably civil war fast.
Alternate History Man said:
How would the Eastern Front of World War I go?
Click to expand...
Pretty much as OTL. There is no credible reason to think anything changes.
And, again, I think the only way there is a government with the Czar as head of state, is one where Russia makes peace then and there - That's not terribly popular or anything, but once the war is over, a lot of dissent can be distracted away. Land reforms for example. An army returning, even in defeat, being told they, as proud veterans of Mother russia is entitled to plenty of land, is likely to be loyal, and unlike a lot of dissenters at home, don't think they could have won. Once the veterans return, fresh of being bought off, that should calm things down - Not enough to preserve Czarist autocracy, but certainly enough to make it a transition, not a civil war.
And any Soviets is likely to be dealt with the same way the Germans did - After all, the veterans are presently rather committed to the regime (at least until they get their land).
 

Deleted member 168499

kham_coc said:
If the whites emerge victorious in 1923, (and they aren't republican whites) then he (or someone else) is probably there for a long time - That being said, with no executive powers.
If we are just talking a provisional government where he is somehow still around, i don't know enough, maybe maybe? but probably civil war fast.

Pretty much as OTL. There is no credible reason to think anything changes.
And, again, I think the only way there is a government with the Czar as head of state, is one where Russia makes peace then and there - That's not terribly popular or anything, but once the war is over, a lot of dissent can be distracted away. Land reforms for example. An army returning, even in defeat, being told they, as proud veterans of Mother russia is entitled to plenty of land, is likely to be loyal, and unlike a lot of dissenters at home, don't think they could have won. Once the veterans return, fresh of being bought off, that should calm things down - Not enough to preserve Czarist autocracy, but certainly enough to make it a transition, not a civil war.
And any Soviets is likely to be dealt with the same way the Germans did - After all, the veterans are presently rather committed to the regime (at least until they get their land).
Click to expand...
After reading your proposal on the matter, I now believe that Tsar Nicholas II could have remained in power in what you said: "Where Russia makes peace then and there".
Also, does OTL stand for "Original Timeline"?
 

Deleted member 168499

kham_coc said:
Id think so, but i'm not an expert on the location and era.

Yes and no, you cna read it as such, but i think it stands for Our TimeLine
Click to expand...
Okay that's good to know. Do you think that the Russian Revolution failing would have a large effect or a small effect in changing historical events in our original timeline?
 

kham_coc

Banned
Alternate History Man said:
Okay that's good to know. Do you think that the Russian Revolution failing would have a large effect or a small effect in changing historical events in our original timeline?
Click to expand...
Well, if Russia taps out 8 + months earlier, I think the CP wins. It almost certainly butterflies US involvement in the war.

And more generally (for otl), the nazis are unlikely to come into power with no ussr, and Germany is unlikely to go to war with whatever non communist Russian government emerges, both of them are very likely to be revisionist and fairly strongly predisposed not to go to war with each other.
A Poland screw for sure.
 

Deleted member 168499

kham_coc said:
Well, if Russia taps out 8 + months earlier, I think the CP wins. It almost certainly butterflies US involvement in the war.

And more generally (for otl), the nazis are unlikely to come into power with no ussr, and Germany is unlikely to go to war with whatever non communist Russian government emerges, both of them are very likely to be revisionist and fairly strongly predisposed not to go to war with each other.
A Poland screw for sure.
Click to expand...
In this alternate timeline, the wave of revolutions that happened in Europe in the aftermath of World War I would most likely cease to occur
 
Gasmask134

Gasmask134

Alternate History Man said:
In this alternate timeline, the wave of revolutions that happened in Europe in the aftermath of World War I would most likely cease to occur
Click to expand...
Maybe, I don't know enough about the matter to really say definitively whether or not there would be socialist/communist revolutions if the Russians leave the war early. The sentiment that led to those revolutions or attempts at revolutions would still certainly be present throughout Europe.

But it also might not lead to much of anything happening or could still happen in some capacity.

Though how successful they'd be or if they would lead to anything with a serious chance of creating a communist state in Europe I don't really know. Like I said, I'm not super familiar with the ones outside Russia.
 

Deleted member 168499

Gasmask134 said:
Maybe, I don't know enough about the matter to really say definitively whether or not there would be socialist/communist revolutions if the Russians leave the war early. The sentiment that led to those revolutions or attempts at revolutions would still certainly be present throughout Europe.

But it also might not lead to much of anything happening or could still happen in some capacity.

Though how successful they'd be or if they would lead to anything with a serious chance of creating a communist state in Europe I don't really know. Like I said, I'm not super familiar with the ones outside Russia.
Click to expand...
There was a revolution in Germany against the monarchy. There was also a revolution in Hungary and mass strikes and mutinies in Austria-Hungary
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Osman Aga

Osman Aga

Banned
Alternate History Man said:
On 1917, the Bolsheviks rose up against the Russian Empire and its government. They wanted Russia to end their involvement in World War I. The revolution ended with the Bolsheviks winning. A provisional government was created, which was then overthrown by the Bolsheviks because the new government continued to fight in World War I. The Soviet Union was then created, and a civil war soon began.

In an alternate timeline, let's imagine the Russian Revolution failed. The Bolsheviks were crushed, and Tsar Nicholas II continued to rule on. What would happen in such a timeline? Would a second revolution happen (Most likely, the real question is how long until a new revolution?), would the Russians be able to hold their position in the Eastern Front? Would the fall to the German Empire, or invade Berlin?

If anyone would like to start a conversation in the comments of this thread, that would be appreciated! Let's find out what may have happened if the Russian Revolution had failed!
Click to expand...

Nicky wasn't much respected by the Whites either. His death was a better outcome for the Whites, a cause to fight for. But when he is alive? Ehh...

There are ways for the Revolution to fail. Lenin, Stalin and Trotsky need to die. How, that can be anyway. They need to die, at least by 1919. The Bolsheviks lost their leadership, the Whites (though divided) can overcome most of the Communists and control most over Russia while eventually turning against each other. Whomever remains last becomes the 'President'/'Prime Minister' (read: Dictator) of the new Russian Republic or Russian Empire (where the Czar is in exile and is awaited to return though not welcome).

This Warlord Era does not need to last long, nor will it be. The latest it can end is probably the early 30s.

You basically get a right wing dictatorship in Russia. Something between nowadays Russia and Nazi Germany. No will to send 'undesired' people to camps but not your "minority rights for everyone!' either.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top
Top