What if Henry VIII's children by his first three wives had had children/gotten married?

[Elfwine]

Magnus may be a good option for Mary since he is closest to her age and not immediately likely to inherit Denmark and Norway. The Oldenburg family is also not a horrible one to be a replacement for the Stewarts, although I wish Mary was able to keep her dynasty for her children, but this is unlikely

It seems like you'd need an earlier POD, and/or a better Darnley if you want to keep the name Stuart going.

 

[noturaveragejoe0316]

It seems like you'd need an earlier POD, and/or a better Darnley if you want to keep the name Stuart going.

hmmm, yeah. What exactly was Darnley's issue? I know he had a drinking problem, but was that it? Was he mentally unstable as well, or just an alcoholic

 

[Elfwine]

I don't know if he was mentally unstable as such, but he seems to have been a rather dislikable fellow- both as far as towards Mary, and how he got along (or rather didn't) with the Scottish nobility.

 

[noturaveragejoe0316]

I don't know if he was mentally unstable as such, but he seems to have been a rather dislikable fellow- both as far as towards Mary, and how he got along (or rather didn't) with the Scottish nobility.

I see. Is there anyway to make him more likable? Raised differently the POD is in 1547, and he'd only be a baby, so it's possible he could turn out differently. Edit: It's actually 1540, when I had Mary marry Philip of Palatinate, so technically we could get an entirely different Henry Stewart with luck

 

[Elfwine]

Raised differently would probably help. Darnley OTL seems to have been too arrogant and too tactless, as far as "dislikable", but most of what I know of him is drawn from this:
https://www.amazon.com/Mary-Queen-Scots-Murder-Darnley/dp/0812971515 so I'm not entirely comfortable suggesting what specifically would make him better.

Does it matter greatly if James (not guaranteed to be used as a name in all timelines, but it works) is a Stuart or an Oldenburg?

 

[noturaveragejoe0316]

Raised differently would probably help. Darnley OTL seems to have been too arrogant and too tactless, as far as "dislikable", but most of what I know of him is drawn from this:
https://www.amazon.com/Mary-Queen-Scots-Murder-Darnley/dp/0812971515 so I'm not entirely comfortable suggesting what specifically would make him better.

Does it matter greatly if James (not guaranteed to be used as a name in all timelines, but it works) is a Stuart or an Oldenburg?

Not necessarily, I'd just like it if the Stuart dynasty could continue in Scotland Oldenburg isn't a bad one to be replaced by at least

 

[noturaveragejoe0316]

Not necessarily, I'd just like it if the Stuart dynasty could continue in Scotland Oldenburg isn't a bad one to be replaced by at least

it is also possible for Mary to marry Darnley, have a few kids, and eventually divorce him instead of him dying (them being cousins would help in a divorce)

 

[Elfwine]

Though wouldn't them separating bring the legitimacy of any kids of theirs into question?

 

[Velasco]

I strongly favour a marriage between Bloody Mary (born 1516) and James V of Scots (born 1513). Age-appropriate and dynastically, geographically, politically useful.

Henry Brandon, 2nd Duke of Suffolk (b.1535) would have been good for Elizabeth.
Or else someone from the White Rose nobility - Edward Courtenay (b.1527). He'd be good for either sister, honestly.

 

[noturaveragejoe0316]

Though wouldn't them separating bring the legitimacy of any kids of theirs into question?

that is true. Maybe I just need a better Darnley

 

[ordinarylittleme]

I strongly favour a marriage between Bloody Mary (born 1516) and James V of Scots (born 1513). Age-appropriate and dynastically, geographically, politically useful.

Henry Brandon, 2nd Duke of Suffolk (b.1535) would have been good for Elizabeth.
Or else someone from the White Rose nobility - Edward Courtenay (b.1527). He'd be good for either sister, honestly.

Courtenay is better for Elizabeth, Mary is a decade older than him.

 

[noturaveragejoe0316]

Courtenay is better for Elizabeth, Mary is a decade older than him.

yeah, I have Elizabeth marrying him in this timeline and Mary marrying Philip of Palatinate. Edward is likely to marry Eleanor of Austria or Elisabeth of Valois, still deciding which is better

 

[ordinarylittleme]

yeah, I have Elizabeth marrying him in this timeline and Mary marrying Philip of Palatinate. Edward is likely to marry Eleanor of Austria or Elisabeth of Valois, still deciding which is better

Eleanor, if Mary had her way, but he'd probably pick Elisabeth (though she's Catholic)

 

[noturaveragejoe0316]

so I've decided to have Mary have a child by her late first husband, Francois II, but a daughter, Catherine Victoire (b.1561, about 7 months after Francois's death). So France will still go to Charles IX, and little Catherine has no succession rights, and so travels with her mother to Scotland, and Mary weds in 1564 a much improved Henry Stewart, and they eventually have James (b. 1565), Alexander (b. 1567), Mary (b. 1568), and Margaret (b. 1572)

 

[noturaveragejoe0316]

would Henri III of Navarre (future Henri IV of France), have divorced his wife and remarried to Marie de Medici if he had had a daughter by his wife, Marguerite?

 

[ordinarylittleme]

would Henri III of Navarre (future Henri IV of France), have divorced his wife and remarried to Marie de Medici if he had had a daughter by his wife, Marguerite?

Probably? I mean, he'd still need a SON in order to inherit France. The daughter could be useful in order to shore up claims though. Depending on when she's born

 

[ordinarylittleme]

so I've decided to have Mary have a child by her late first husband, Francois II, but a daughter, Catherine Victoire (b.1561, about 7 months after Francois's death). So France will still go to Charles IX, and little Catherine has no succession rights, and so travels with her mother to Scotland, and Mary weds in 1564 a much improved Henry Stewart, and they eventually have James (b. 1565), Alexander (b. 1567), Mary (b. 1568), and Margaret (b. 1572)

Catherine would be the Duchess of Brittany.

 

[noturaveragejoe0316]

Catherine would be the Duchess of Brittany.

that is true, I had forgotten about France inheriting Brittany already

 

[noturaveragejoe0316]

Probably? I mean, he'd still need a SON in order to inherit France. The daughter could be useful in order to shore up claims though. Depending on when she's born

that is true, although if one of Henri II and Catherine de Medici's sons manage to produce a male heir then he won't be inheriting France anyway I have a daughter Jeanne Marguerite being born to him and his wife in 1581, so she'd be about 8 when he inherits France, if he still inherits in 1589, that is

 

[ordinarylittleme]

that is true, although if one of Henri II and Catherine de Medici's sons manage to produce a male heir then he won't be inheriting France anyway I have a daughter Jeanne Marguerite being born to him and his wife in 1581, so she'd be about 8 when he inherits France, if he still inherits in 1589, that is

Then she will marry her cousin if there is one and they will rule France