What if Henry VIII's children by his first three wives had had children/gotten married?

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isabella

FouDuRoy said:
And what if Philip II has no surviving younger son ?
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Then the Emperor would get back it
FouDuRoy said:
As all the Sforza dukes of Milan.
The founders of the Sforza line of dukes of Milan, Francesco Sforza and Bianca Maria Visconti, were both bastards.
But Bona was their descendant in legitimate line.
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While he was married to the illegitimate daughter of the last Visconti Duke, Francesco in the end became Duke of Milan for right by conquest and invitation from the population.
FouDuRoy said:
I did not know that.
So, who was the last duke of Milan, before Ludovico, to receive imperial investiture ?
Some Visconti duke ?
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Yes, the imperial investiture as duke of Milan was given thrice: to Gian Galeazzo Visconti (then automatically to his sons Giovanni Maria and Filippo Maria), to Ludovico sforza (and automatically to his sons Massimiliano and Francesco II) and lastly to Philip II of Spain (automatically extended to his male heirs)
 

noturaveragejoe0316

isabella said:
Mary MUST NOT marry Darnley, who is an hopeless case. And if you want marry Elisabeth to don Carlos, then Mary Stuart is the only realistic choice for Edward
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my only issue with Mary and Edward getting married is that I'd prefer for England and Scotland to stay separate in this timeline, at least for as long as possible. Again, for Mary, marrying the English king isn't quite as smart the move as it might sound. There's the possibility that the Scottish people might not want to be under England, and could oust Mary and Edward. She would also be away from Scotland, something she already did long enough while engaged and then married to Francis II of France. I do agree that Darnley is a bad match for anyone. But if she is to marry someone else, I'd rather it be another Scottish cousin of some kind, if there are any. It would help boost Mary's claim to Scotland, given that she's a Queen in a time that preferred Kings. I've also decided for Elisabeth of Valois to marry elsewhere, and Carlos can just marry Anna of Austria, at least for the time being. Perhaps an english/french alliance would be worth pissing off the pope XD
 
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noturaveragejoe0316

Felipe II of Spain, b. 1527, m. 1543 Maria Manuela of Portugal (A) b. 1527 d. 1545. Married 1546 Margaret of Valois (B) b. 1523 d. 1568
1a) Carlos, Prince of Asturias, b. 1545 d. 1580, m. 1563 Anna of Austria b. 1549
1aa) Maria Manuela, b. 1566
1ab) Felipe Prospero, Prince of Asturias, b. 1568
1ac) Carlos, b. 1570, d. 1571
1ad) Fernando Lorenzo, b. 1572, d. 1580
1ae) Isabel Maria, b. 1575
1af) Carlos Felipe, b. 1577, d. 1582
1ag) Ana Constanza, b. 1579

2b) Isabella Clara Eugenia, b. 1548
3b) Fernando, b. 1550
4b) Diego Felix, b. 1553
5b) Catalina Micaela, b. 1554
6b) Felipe, b. 1556, d. 1560
7b) Juana Margarita, b. 1561
8b) Maria Ana, b. 1564
 

isabella

noturaveragejoe0316 said:
my only issue with Mary and Edward getting married is that I'd prefer for England and Scotland to stay separate in this timeline, at least for as long as possible. Again, for Mary, marrying the English king isn't quite as smart the move as it might sound. There's the possibility that the Scottish people might not want to be under England, and could oust Mary and Edward. She would also be away from Scotland, something she already did long enough while engaged and then married to Francis II of France. I do agree that Darnley is a bad match for anyone. But if she is to marry someone else, I'd rather it be another Scottish cousin of some kind, if there are any. It would help boost Mary's claim to Scotland, given that she's a Queen in a time that preferred Kings. I've also decided for Elisabeth of Valois to marry elsewhere, and Carlos can just marry Anna of Austria, at least for the time being. Perhaps an english/french alliance would be worth pissing off the pope XD
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Mary has no Scottish royal cousin to marry, else she would NOT be Queen.
 

FouDuRoy

isabella said:
Mary MUST NOT marry Darnley, who is an hopeless case. And if you want marry Elisabeth to don Carlos, then Mary Stuart is the only realistic choice for Edward
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If both Mary and Elisabeth marry other guys, Edward will need to find another bride in order to produce an heir.

noturaveragejoe0316 said:
But if she is to marry someone else, I'd rather it be another Scottish cousin of some kind, if there are any. It would help boost Mary's claim to Scotland, given that she's a Queen in a time that preferred Kings.
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After Mary, the next-in-line for the throne of Scotland was James Hamilton.
en.wikipedia.org

James Hamilton, Duke of Châtellerault - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org
His sons were close in age to Mary.
 
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isabella

FouDuRoy said:
If both Mary and Elizabeth marry other guys, Edward will need to find another bride in order to produce an heir.
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The OP said who he is thinking to marry Elisabeth to Edward as was planned (he had planned an Habsburg match for him but that is extremely unlikely)
FouDuRoy said:
After Mary, the next-in-line for the throne of Scotland was James Hamilton.
en.wikipedia.org

James Hamilton, Duke of Châtellerault - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org
His sons were close in age to Mary.
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Not a great idea as Mary’s claim was secure, while the divorce of Hamilton’s father by his first wife (and consequently his remarriage) was seen as invalid by many AND the next after him was Lennox (aka Darnley‘s father). Marrying a cousin from either line is exactly the last thing who Mary need to do for having a stable reign
 

noturaveragejoe0316

isabella said:
Mary has no Scottish royal cousin to marry, else she would NOT be Queen.
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i was only wondering if she had a distant cousin from a further ancestor, not necessarily a first one. More obscure branches of the Stewarts such as those descended from younger sons of the previous Kings or even from princesses who had married fairly close-by such as in Scotland or England
 

isabella

noturaveragejoe0316 said:
i was only wondering if she had a distant cousin from a further ancestor, not necessarily a first one. More obscure branches of the Stewarts such as those descended from younger sons of the previous Kings or even from princesses who had married fairly close-by such as in Scotland or England
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Any male royal Stewart (the Lennox were NOT royal as their claim like the one of the Hamiltons, derived from Mary Stewart, Countess of Arran…) would be ahead of her in the line of succession, while heirs of princesses would a very bad idea (as the Hamiltons of Arran and the Stewart of Lennox were the firsts of them and neither would be a good idea)
 

Elfwine

If Darnley was considered close enough age-wise by Mary, one of Christian III's (Denmark and Norway) sons seems a possibility.

Frederick: born 1534 (king as of 1559, married 1572 OTL).
Magnus: born 1540 (a canon in 1555, but he was betrothed OTL in 1570 so him rejoining the world is not out of the question)
Johan: born 1545 (married 1568 OTL)
Dates from here: https://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/DENMARK.htm

Alternately, Sweden (also taken from the Medieval Lands site):
Magnus, born 1542.
 

noturaveragejoe0316

Elfwine said:
If Darnley was considered close enough age-wise by Mary, one of Christian III's (Denmark and Norway) sons seems a possibility.

Frederick: born 1534 (king as of 1559, married 1572 OTL).
Magnus: born 1540 (a canon in 1555, but he was betrothed OTL in 1570 so him rejoining the world is not out of the question)
Johan: born 1545 (married 1568 OTL)
Dates from here: https://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/DENMARK.htm

Alternately, Sweden (also taken from the Medieval Lands site):
Magnus, born 1542.
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Magnus may be a good option for Mary since he is closest to her age and not immediately likely to inherit Denmark and Norway. The Oldenburg family is also not a horrible one to be a replacement for the Stewarts, although I wish Mary was able to keep her dynasty for her children, but this is unlikely
 
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