What if America took Spain in the Spanish American War?

RNG

Banned
There was a alt map, which can't be found now, where America took Spain. This resulted in America joining the Central Powers and so the Central Powers winning. For this to happen America would need to be stronger and Spain weaker, and the Spanish want to ruled by America than their own government perhaps. What would long term implications be for such a scenario?
 

Gandalf553

Well first of all, why would America take Spain? And even if it took Spain i find it very implausible for them to keep Spain as a part of the Unites States. A client state maybe, but not part of the country. Then you have other problems, like the Spaniards willingness to be controlled by a country on the other side of the Antlantic, not to mention the huge logistic and economical problems of controlling such a huge country on the other side of the ocean. And why would taking Spain make the Americans join the Central Powers?

But if something like that does happen, it would have some pretty big consequences. There migth be more immigration from Spain to America. The minorities in Spain like the Basque and the Catalan might start demanding more autonomy. There could be a huge resentment against the Americans, and i find it impossible that the USA would be able to keep Spain for that long (till WW1). One scenario that i could see is the Americans promising more autonomy to the Catalans and Basques, which in turn makes them more "pro-American" and the Spaniards more "anti-American". This would have some very long term effects in the future, like Spain breaking up, becoming independent, but without Catalonia and the Basque country, which could remain part of the USA for a bit longer but demand independence after some time.
 
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Deleted member 2186

RNG said:
There was a alt map, which can't be found now, where America took Spain. This resulted in America joining the Central Powers and so the Central Powers winning. For this to happen America would need to be stronger and Spain weaker, and the Spanish want to ruled by America than their own government perhaps. What would long term implications be for such a scenario?
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Here is a map which shows you, it would not be very easy for the United States to invade Cuba, the Philippines and Spain at the same time.

American-Spanish-Map-War.jpg
 
Clandango

Clandango

I imagine that this scenario would also have the US controlling Mexico. Maybe they decide to empty Mexico into Spain? Unrealistic, but it seems like the sort of thing that would happen in one of the old time alt history maps. Shame there aren't more around with those crazy ideas. They were good dun, even if the old maps lacked some of the flair that comes from having people working on base maps for a decade.
 

Thanksforallthefish

Adding to the previous points I predict that European powers will join together against the US, perhaps not in a formal alliance, but they will be very cold towards the US and probably help Spanish efforts to free itself. After all, while Spain was a decaying power, it was still an European nation, and the outright annexation of a sovereign power will make the US the enemy of everybody in the neighborhood.

There were roughly 18.616.630 people in Spain in 1900. It won't be easy to hold them down. The best tactic would try to divide and conquer separating Spain on its nationalities, but I could see a pan-Spanish movement resisting against its conquerors. The US already had resistance in the conquered Spanish colonies. Could you imagine what would happen in Spain itself? This is the country that invented the word guerrilla BTW.
 
Clandango

Clandango

lordroel said:
Here is a map which shows you, it would not be very easy for the United States to invade Cuba, the Philippines and Spain at the same time.
Click to expand...
As this is about the US joining the Central Powers, I think we can assume the Yanks already grabbed their Caribbean and Pacific Islands. Not that the US would have any use for the rest of Spain's empire. Though setting up banana republics in the Canaries, making some sort of Whites Only state in Spanish Guinea, and such might appeal to them. I imagine in this world that the Germans are wanting Spanish Morocco due to wanting French Morocco. Though perhaps the Americans and Germans let the Moroccans have it for a good relationshions. I would say the Americans and Moroccans might see it as the accumulation of the Morrocans recognizing American independence early on, but it was really just a matter of shaking down Yankee sailors for protection money.
 

Ultima Ratio

ASB, any expeditionary force sent to Europe would be thrown back to the sea. The US at the time of the Spanish-American War is not the US of 2018.

Besides, the Great Powers would intervene.
 

Deleted member 2186

Clandango said:
As this is about the US joining the Central Powers, I think we can assume the Yanks already grabbed their Caribbean and Pacific Islands. Not that the US would have any use for the rest of Spain's empire. Though setting up banana republics in the Canaries, making some sort of Whites Only state in Spanish Guinea, and such might appeal to them. I imagine in this world that the Germans are wanting Spanish Morocco due to wanting French Morocco. Though perhaps the Americans and Germans let the Moroccans have it for a good relationshions. I would say the Americans and Moroccans might see it as the accumulation of the Morrocans recognizing American independence early on, but it was really just a matter of shaking down Yankee sailors for protection money.
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And how would the United States get the manpower to invade Spain who has a much larger army and navy protecting it then Cuba and the Philippines.
 

John Farrier

I cannot point to a source right now, but I recall reading that the US briefly considered sending a fleet to Spanish home waters. But there was concern that the great powers of Europe would find a US military presence in Europe unacceptable and that the UK discreetly warned the US government of this sentiment. The US was free to attack Spain in the Caribbean and the Pacific, but not in Europe.

Anyway, the US lacked the military assets necessary to make a serious incursion into Spain itself, let alone conquer it.
 
Clandango

Clandango

lordroel said:
And how would the United States get the manpower to invade Spain who has a much larger army and navy protecting it then Cuba and the Philippines.
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We are talking about different events. Unless the POD involves there being no Spanish-American War or the Americans losing it. Even if either of those happened, there would be the issue of how the Germans were wanting to buy the Phillipines and also had designs on the Caribbean. We know the US occupying Spain is ridiculous, but we are talking about that. Cuba, Puerto Rico, and the Phillipihes will not need to fear the Spanish, nor do the Americans need to protect against them there. The British, French, and Japanese are another matter.

EDIT: My apologies, I just reread the first post and realized that it was indeed talking about the Americans possessing Spain before joining the Central Powers. So yah, most of my post doesn't really stack up.
 

Anaxagoras

Banned
The United States would never have invaded Spain. What would have been the point?

Had they invaded Spain, they would have utterly lacked the manpower, power projection capabilities, and political will to conquer it.

Had they still done so, the rest of Europe would have ganged up on them and pummeled them to pieces.

And one other thing: the Monroe Doctrine works both ways. The Americans stated that they would not intervene in Europe in exchange for the Europeans not intervening in the Western Hemisphere. So if the Americans break their end of that old bargain (and likely received a severe beating for doing so) the imperial-minded Europeans would have then felt fully empowered to start throwing their weight around the Latin American and Central American nations.
 

Luminous

Anaxagoras said:
And one other thing: the Monroe Doctrine works both ways.
Click to expand...

To be fair, US actions in the Philippines also treaded dangerously close to a breach of the Doctrine as it is.

The important question here is why the US might want Spain in the first place that would cause them to invade? Regardless of whether they would do it, there is no motive for the US to even consider the attempt.
 

ar-pharazon

Banned
I think this is possible physically speaking if politically extremely unlikely.

The US had the industrial power and population necessary to do this and certainly could have.

But an American invasion of Spain would have generated a fierce and hostile European response. All the European powers would gang up on the US and smack the Americans back across the Atlantic.
 
vortiger

vortiger

ar-pharazon said:
I think this is possible physically speaking if politically extremely unlikely.

The US had the industrial power and population necessary to do this and certainly could have.

But an American invasion of Spain would have generated a fierce and hostile European response. All the European powers would gang up on the US and smack the Americans back across the Atlantic.
Click to expand...

i think you are underestimating just how difficult an invasion from across the Atlantic would be. just think logistically, how are they going to land and supply the troops?
 

Court Jester

USA does not have logistics or the troop numbers (unless it introduces conscription) to try the invasion of Spain. And if somehow does try this folly, it will trigger quite a response from Britain and France.
 

Deleted member 2186

Court Jester said:
USA does not have logistics or the troop numbers (unless it introduces conscription) to try the invasion of Spain. And if somehow does try this folly, it will trigger quite a response from Britain and France.
Click to expand...
Think i found something: War Plans and Preparations and Their Impact on U.S. Naval Operations in the Spanish-American War

he Office of Naval Intelligence entered the planning effort later in 1896. Lieutenant William Kimball prepared a plan that focussed on a tight naval blockade of Cuba as the primary means of persuading Spain to release control of her colony. Supporting attacks against Manila and the Spanish coast would, it was believed, further induce Spain to negotiate an end to the conflict. According to Kimball's plan, only if these efforts failed to bring about peace, would the army land in Cuba and operate against Havana. The Naval War College criticized the plan on the grounds that it dispersed U.S. naval strength to a dangerous extent, and warned that a blockade alone would be insufficient to bring Spain to the negotiating table. The proposed expedition to Spanish waters was thought to be counter-productive as it might harden Spanish resolve and invite unwanted diplomatic pressure from other European countries. However, Captain Henry Taylor, president of the War College, endorsed the idea to use the Asiatic Squadron against Spanish forces in the Philippines, and this element would reappear in later plans.

Admiral Francis M. Ramsay, chief of the influential Bureau of Navigation, had long been an strong opponent of the Naval War College, and it is likely that he was the one who persuaded Secretary of the Navy Hilary Herbert to convene a board in the summer of 1896 to draft a separate plan for war with Spain. Like the Kimball plan, the Ramsay Board focused on the a naval blockade, but added the deep water ports of Puerto Rico to those of Cuba. The destruction of crops in Cuba by both sides led the Board to believe that the Spanish garrison needed to import food in order to survive. A relief force from Spain would consume most of its coal simply in crossing the Atlantic and thus would be in no position to engage American naval forces. Although the present strength of the U.S. Navy was sufficient to meet and defeat any fleet arriving from Spain, the Board called for the purchase of a number of small fast steamers to enforce the blockade. Finally, the European Squadron should be reinforced by ships from the U.S. and the Asiatic Squadron, and together operate against the Spanish coast after capturing the Canary Islands as an advance base. Captain Taylor strongly dissented from the views of the Board stating that large operations in Spanish waters were too dangerous, and that a naval blockade would not be sufficient to subdue Spanish forces in Cuba.
 
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