Just keep in mind, it'd be pretty hard for Spain to hold Upper Louisiana without New Orleans. They'd likely sell it, either to France or Britain, depending on who they're getting along with better. (At this point, probably Britain. France was aggressive even before the revolution, which iirc should have started before our PoD, and the Spanish in particular would have no desire to strengthen the revolutionaries and plenty of reasons to try and get London on-side)
We Refuse
- Thread starter Red Wolfe
- Start date
-
- Tags
- balkanized america
I am working on making one just need to learn how to do it in paint.net first. But don't worry you guys will get one soon.
Chapter 3
Chapter 3
Alexander Hamilton first president of the United States
Hamilton's first term:
When Hamilton was inaugurated president in march 1794 he had a lot to deal with. Not only did he have to organize the new government but had to deal with the new nations that were bordering America, and British and native clams on the western territories. But he had a massive advantage, his party controlled almost all of government. Although there was opposition in the form of Republican party, they held no major seats of government and had no seats in congress. Utilizing this he set up an all federalist cabinet consisting of Oliver Wolcott jr as secretary of treasury, Richard Butler as secretary of war, William Paterson as secretary of state and Thomas Mifflin as vice president[1]. He also began to build up the military and claimed that the former American states had left illegally. To this point he allied with Vermont. This alliance was not recognized by the New England collation do to the fact that they did not recognized Vermont as an independent republic. He also began to set up the economy[2]. He also establish the dollar as the new national currency, set up the United states bank and mint. He also establish a series of taxes to fund this new army. One of the most controversial taxes was the one on Distilled spirits. The reason this was the most controversial because distilled spirits were used as a medium of exchange in western America. The people in the region of western Pennsylvania had started to refuse to pay this tax. It got to the point where some were planning of taking over Pittsburgh. Once Hamilton heard of this he sent in a part of the new army to put down and discourage talks of rebellion. This rebellion would help prove the power and authority on the new government by quickly putting down the rebellion. He also establish a series of tariffs on his neighbors farther angering them. In 1798 he would be Elected again. All in all his first term is seen as the formation of a stable government and as a build up to the war of 1800.
George Clinton first president of New York
New England and New York:
When the states of New England seceded they had they also had numerous problems. The major one was the military of the United States. To solve this the problem the State of New Hampshire and the Commonwealth of Massachusetts allied with each other, but they knew that they alone could not stop the United States. So they started to look for other potential allies which they found in the British Empire. As mention the British held clams over the Ohio country but they also held claims over territories that Massachusetts claimed in the north. So Samuel Adams, John Taylor Gilman, and representatives of the British met in Boston to hash out the terms of the alliance. They came to the agreement that the region that Britain claims would be given up by Massachusetts for Britain recognizing New Hampshire's claim over Vermont and for an alliance with them. Britain also managed to convince them to stop paying their debt to France[3]. The new nations also had to deal with Governmental stuff. Although Massachusetts and New Hampshire had elected to keep their constitutions, they also had the federalist in their nations to worry about. These federalist groups made new parties to oppose the existing governments. John Adams of Massachusetts formed the liberty party and John Sullivan of New Hampshire formed the national party. Meanwhile in New York they, unlike their neighbors to the north (and Rhode Island), had decided to form a new constitution based around anti federalist ideals. So meeting in Albany, the various representatives from around new York being to write up the new constitution. The first thing they discussed the Legislator , which they decided to base off the one in Massachusetts. The national legislature would be split between a house of representatives(with representatives serving for 3 years) and a senate (with senators serving for 6 years) where only half are elected at one time. But the aspect they spent the most time discussion was the leader of the republic. Over the next few weeks they made various compromises and agreements and came up with the following system. The president would be the head of state, and commander in chief being elected by the people. They are also in charge of national security and would serve for a single 6 year term. The archon would be the head of government and have the power to form a cabinet. They would be elected by but not responsible to the house of representatives. The Judges serving on the Supreme court would be nominated by the archon and approved by the senate. They also added a list of rights and the begin of the constitution .After the convention George Clinton would be elected the first president of the Republic of New York, and Jeremiah Van Rensselaer as the first archon by April 1796.
ship docked at Charleston
Spain and France:
As America was breaking up the nations of Spain, France, and Britain jumped at the opportunity to set up new spheres of influence. And while Britain was busy in the north, France and Spain where working down south. France set up free trade treaty's with north Carolina and Virginia in exchange for the easing of there debt to France. Spain allied with Georgia and south Carolina( which was kept even after there united to form Freedonia). Georgia also got a loan from Spain to secure some money. Spain also ended the argument over Georgia's western territories with them getting it[4]. They tried to take North Carolinas western territories but they refused to give it up (Spain would ignore them by building forts in the region)
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
[1]Hamilton ran unopposed so he got to pick his
[2] This included taking the states debts
[3]They did this to try and weaken France by cutting off a source of revenue
[4] They took the territory by being granted it for forgiveness of loan debt
Alexander Hamilton first president of the United States
Hamilton's first term:
When Hamilton was inaugurated president in march 1794 he had a lot to deal with. Not only did he have to organize the new government but had to deal with the new nations that were bordering America, and British and native clams on the western territories. But he had a massive advantage, his party controlled almost all of government. Although there was opposition in the form of Republican party, they held no major seats of government and had no seats in congress. Utilizing this he set up an all federalist cabinet consisting of Oliver Wolcott jr as secretary of treasury, Richard Butler as secretary of war, William Paterson as secretary of state and Thomas Mifflin as vice president[1]. He also began to build up the military and claimed that the former American states had left illegally. To this point he allied with Vermont. This alliance was not recognized by the New England collation do to the fact that they did not recognized Vermont as an independent republic. He also began to set up the economy[2]. He also establish the dollar as the new national currency, set up the United states bank and mint. He also establish a series of taxes to fund this new army. One of the most controversial taxes was the one on Distilled spirits. The reason this was the most controversial because distilled spirits were used as a medium of exchange in western America. The people in the region of western Pennsylvania had started to refuse to pay this tax. It got to the point where some were planning of taking over Pittsburgh. Once Hamilton heard of this he sent in a part of the new army to put down and discourage talks of rebellion. This rebellion would help prove the power and authority on the new government by quickly putting down the rebellion. He also establish a series of tariffs on his neighbors farther angering them. In 1798 he would be Elected again. All in all his first term is seen as the formation of a stable government and as a build up to the war of 1800.
George Clinton first president of New York
New England and New York:
When the states of New England seceded they had they also had numerous problems. The major one was the military of the United States. To solve this the problem the State of New Hampshire and the Commonwealth of Massachusetts allied with each other, but they knew that they alone could not stop the United States. So they started to look for other potential allies which they found in the British Empire. As mention the British held clams over the Ohio country but they also held claims over territories that Massachusetts claimed in the north. So Samuel Adams, John Taylor Gilman, and representatives of the British met in Boston to hash out the terms of the alliance. They came to the agreement that the region that Britain claims would be given up by Massachusetts for Britain recognizing New Hampshire's claim over Vermont and for an alliance with them. Britain also managed to convince them to stop paying their debt to France[3]. The new nations also had to deal with Governmental stuff. Although Massachusetts and New Hampshire had elected to keep their constitutions, they also had the federalist in their nations to worry about. These federalist groups made new parties to oppose the existing governments. John Adams of Massachusetts formed the liberty party and John Sullivan of New Hampshire formed the national party. Meanwhile in New York they, unlike their neighbors to the north (and Rhode Island), had decided to form a new constitution based around anti federalist ideals. So meeting in Albany, the various representatives from around new York being to write up the new constitution. The first thing they discussed the Legislator , which they decided to base off the one in Massachusetts. The national legislature would be split between a house of representatives(with representatives serving for 3 years) and a senate (with senators serving for 6 years) where only half are elected at one time. But the aspect they spent the most time discussion was the leader of the republic. Over the next few weeks they made various compromises and agreements and came up with the following system. The president would be the head of state, and commander in chief being elected by the people. They are also in charge of national security and would serve for a single 6 year term. The archon would be the head of government and have the power to form a cabinet. They would be elected by but not responsible to the house of representatives. The Judges serving on the Supreme court would be nominated by the archon and approved by the senate. They also added a list of rights and the begin of the constitution .After the convention George Clinton would be elected the first president of the Republic of New York, and Jeremiah Van Rensselaer as the first archon by April 1796.
ship docked at Charleston
Spain and France:
As America was breaking up the nations of Spain, France, and Britain jumped at the opportunity to set up new spheres of influence. And while Britain was busy in the north, France and Spain where working down south. France set up free trade treaty's with north Carolina and Virginia in exchange for the easing of there debt to France. Spain allied with Georgia and south Carolina( which was kept even after there united to form Freedonia). Georgia also got a loan from Spain to secure some money. Spain also ended the argument over Georgia's western territories with them getting it[4]. They tried to take North Carolinas western territories but they refused to give it up (Spain would ignore them by building forts in the region)
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
[1]Hamilton ran unopposed so he got to pick his
[2] This included taking the states debts
[3]They did this to try and weaken France by cutting off a source of revenue
[4] They took the territory by being granted it for forgiveness of loan debt
Last edited:
I have not decided yet but I am leaning toward the answer being no
unprincipled peter
Donor
we (meaning I) need a map. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think the situation is:
new england is a country (massachusetts, Connecticut, Rhode Island)
New York is a country.
Pennsylvania is taking the role of US. I presume delaware, maryland, new jersey is part of it, as I don't recall they seceded.
Virginia is claiming Kentucky
the Carolinas and Georgia are a country.
5 countries in all?
new england is a country (massachusetts, Connecticut, Rhode Island)
New York is a country.
Pennsylvania is taking the role of US. I presume delaware, maryland, new jersey is part of it, as I don't recall they seceded.
Virginia is claiming Kentucky
the Carolinas and Georgia are a country.
5 countries in all?
I am in the process of making one
1) new england is not a united countery when i refer to new england i refer to a region in north america not a country. In fact only 3 of the new england states are independent as connecticut is still a part of the usa.
2) Kentuky is independent and i am still debating whether or not virginia is mad enough about to try to take them back
3) yea Pennsylvania is basically the most powerful state of America
4) At the moment Georgia, and the carolinas are indepedent. They are also not one unified country
1. Vermont is claimed by New Hampshire and New York
2. New Hampshire
3. Massachusetts 4. Rhode Island
5(6). Ohio is primarily claimed by Britain, America, and Virginia
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So my first map how did I do, also any questions/concerns involving the tl
2. New Hampshire
3. Massachusetts 4. Rhode Island
5(6). Ohio is primarily claimed by Britain, America, and Virginia
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
So my first map how did I do, also any questions/concerns involving the tl
Last edited:
unprincipled peter
Donor
Ohio should probably be counted in the independent zone. It was flooded pretty quickly after the revolution, and Britain didn't really contest it. there were few natives, and it was wide open. Likewise, lower Illinois/Indiana were also in the independent zone. The real contested (OTL US and Britain) part was upper Illinois/Indiana, Michigan, Wisconsin.
Virginia had the best claim on it, with NY, CT, MA making claims, too. Pennsylvania, oddly, did not make a claim per the very limited research I did, although here the US could claim it through CT. settlement of Ohio was primarily from NY and New England in OTL, although in TTL ability to travel across several countries, all in a state of agitation while settling claims/differences) might here affect migration patterns. (hmm, this brings up a consideration. OTL the crowded masses migrated from NY/New England. IF the ability to move about restricts that, the region is going to urbanize quicker than in OTL).
OTL, the states miraculously settled differences peaceably (part of the real life wank that was the US), but now that they're all separate countries, it's hard to see them not coming to blows.
but, in spite of all my nitpicking, I do like the TL.
Virginia had the best claim on it, with NY, CT, MA making claims, too. Pennsylvania, oddly, did not make a claim per the very limited research I did, although here the US could claim it through CT. settlement of Ohio was primarily from NY and New England in OTL, although in TTL ability to travel across several countries, all in a state of agitation while settling claims/differences) might here affect migration patterns. (hmm, this brings up a consideration. OTL the crowded masses migrated from NY/New England. IF the ability to move about restricts that, the region is going to urbanize quicker than in OTL).
OTL, the states miraculously settled differences peaceably (part of the real life wank that was the US), but now that they're all separate countries, it's hard to see them not coming to blows.
but, in spite of all my nitpicking, I do like the TL.
virgnia claims the area for the otl reasons and America becuse of the treaty of paris and CT. Brtiain is a mix of otl reasons and spite ( a as long you continue to say the republic of vermont is a real thing we will keep claiming this territory). Also is it possible that the area is less populated becuse of the lack of new england migration in TTL
thanks
Chapter 4
Chapter 3
American troops in Ohio
Start of the War of 1800:
On march 10th 1800 a small new Hampshire force of 400 headed into the Vermont wilderness. They were heading out to establish an outpost on lake Groton[1]. As they made their way to the lake they were attacked by a group of green mountain boys[2]. While they skirmish only killed a few people, the survivors of the original group made there way back. When the government in concord heard about the attack they sent a much larger to take Windsor. The war of 1800 had begun. And while it is debated if the war of 1800 is part of a the coalition wars what is certain is what happened next, new York joined into the fight. See when the government in Albany heard about the occupation of Windsor they declared war on New Hampshire believing that they were invading their territory. With that New Hampshire called in the rest of the new England coalition[3]. With Massachusetts and Britain in the fight there, but 2 more nations were fated to join America, and Virginia. When the United States learned of the war happening in Vermont they declared war on the participants under the pretense of defending Vermont( though there real plans were to bring the nations north of them in to there nation as new states). When America had entered the war the one of the first discussions they made was to march an army into the Ohio country to secure there claims to the area. This caused Virginia to enter the war because they believed that America had invaded land that rightfully belonged to them. And with their entry a small skirmish in Vermont turned into a multisided war.
flag of Freedonia
Freedonia:
Ever since South Carolina and Georgia had gained their independence from America they were in talks to form a united country. The reasons for these talks mostly came from Georgia. Since they were the least populated of the newly independent states they gravitate to there neighbor to the north. They would eventually ally to each other and this alliance would (do to them being former federalist states) soon turn into ideas of union. It was not until April 2nd however that these talks were put into action. It was on this date that the 2 countries would meet in savannah to work out a constitution. Most of the basics were based on the US one. It had three branches an executive, legislative, and judicial. There were however differences in the two. For the executive branch the president served a single 6 year term and the was no vice president only a President of the Senate. For congress the House of Representatives was renamed the House of Delegates and the whole of congress was Proportioned on population. The president would be elected by the people and not an electoral collage. Delegates and senators also serve for longer, with delegates serving for 3 years and senators for 9(only a third of them would be up for election at one time). Senators would also be elected by the people. The major difference in the judicial branch was the fact that it was called the Constitutional court and there was a set number (6). They eventually came to a problem, what to name this country. The first 2 two suggestions were to name the country Carolina or Columbia. Carolina was unfavorable because it favored South Carolina, and the delegates wanted to build a new nation and felt that Columbia was too attached to America. So they invented a new name Freedonia representing the free nature of the nation. The final part they incorporated in the constitution was a select number of what they called vital libraries. This was the right to free speech, free press, free religion, petition, and assembly. After the convention ended it was quickly ratified and nominees for president came forth. How ever out of them all one clear winner came forth Charles Cotesworth Pinckney. So on in November 1800 Pinckney would be inaugurated as the first president in the temporary capital of Charleston[4].
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
[1] Vermont had allowed this to happen mostly so they are not invaded by much bigger armies
[2] It is uncertain weather or not there were really affiliated or if the troops had mistakenly reported so
[3] Britain would not enter until America did
[4] The constitution called for a capital territory to be created
American troops in Ohio
Start of the War of 1800:
On march 10th 1800 a small new Hampshire force of 400 headed into the Vermont wilderness. They were heading out to establish an outpost on lake Groton[1]. As they made their way to the lake they were attacked by a group of green mountain boys[2]. While they skirmish only killed a few people, the survivors of the original group made there way back. When the government in concord heard about the attack they sent a much larger to take Windsor. The war of 1800 had begun. And while it is debated if the war of 1800 is part of a the coalition wars what is certain is what happened next, new York joined into the fight. See when the government in Albany heard about the occupation of Windsor they declared war on New Hampshire believing that they were invading their territory. With that New Hampshire called in the rest of the new England coalition[3]. With Massachusetts and Britain in the fight there, but 2 more nations were fated to join America, and Virginia. When the United States learned of the war happening in Vermont they declared war on the participants under the pretense of defending Vermont( though there real plans were to bring the nations north of them in to there nation as new states). When America had entered the war the one of the first discussions they made was to march an army into the Ohio country to secure there claims to the area. This caused Virginia to enter the war because they believed that America had invaded land that rightfully belonged to them. And with their entry a small skirmish in Vermont turned into a multisided war.
flag of Freedonia
Freedonia:
Ever since South Carolina and Georgia had gained their independence from America they were in talks to form a united country. The reasons for these talks mostly came from Georgia. Since they were the least populated of the newly independent states they gravitate to there neighbor to the north. They would eventually ally to each other and this alliance would (do to them being former federalist states) soon turn into ideas of union. It was not until April 2nd however that these talks were put into action. It was on this date that the 2 countries would meet in savannah to work out a constitution. Most of the basics were based on the US one. It had three branches an executive, legislative, and judicial. There were however differences in the two. For the executive branch the president served a single 6 year term and the was no vice president only a President of the Senate. For congress the House of Representatives was renamed the House of Delegates and the whole of congress was Proportioned on population. The president would be elected by the people and not an electoral collage. Delegates and senators also serve for longer, with delegates serving for 3 years and senators for 9(only a third of them would be up for election at one time). Senators would also be elected by the people. The major difference in the judicial branch was the fact that it was called the Constitutional court and there was a set number (6). They eventually came to a problem, what to name this country. The first 2 two suggestions were to name the country Carolina or Columbia. Carolina was unfavorable because it favored South Carolina, and the delegates wanted to build a new nation and felt that Columbia was too attached to America. So they invented a new name Freedonia representing the free nature of the nation. The final part they incorporated in the constitution was a select number of what they called vital libraries. This was the right to free speech, free press, free religion, petition, and assembly. After the convention ended it was quickly ratified and nominees for president came forth. How ever out of them all one clear winner came forth Charles Cotesworth Pinckney. So on in November 1800 Pinckney would be inaugurated as the first president in the temporary capital of Charleston[4].
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
[1] Vermont had allowed this to happen mostly so they are not invaded by much bigger armies
[2] It is uncertain weather or not there were really affiliated or if the troops had mistakenly reported so
[3] Britain would not enter until America did
[4] The constitution called for a capital territory to be created
Last edited:
They each kept their share of the debt that they owed to france. In america the federal goverment assumed the debts of Pennsylvania, new Jersey, Maryland, and Deleware(Freedonia did the same thing for its states).