We Refuse

prologue
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The Philadelphia convention
“My political curiosity, exclusive of my anxious solicitude for the public welfare, leads me to ask who authorized them to speak the language of ‘We, the People,’ instead of ‘We, the States’?”
-Patrick Henry

PROLOGUE
On May 25th 1787 the great men from the various states of the United States met in the Philadelphia state house. They were there to discuses the writing of a new constitution for the whole nation. The 2 main plans that were proposed were the Virginia and New Jersey plans. The Virginia plan, created by James Madison, advocated for a strong national government were as the New Jersey plan was something more like the old articles of confederation. After a couple months a new plan, the Connecticut plan, was brought to the convention. This plan, despite being a blend of the previous two, was highly controversial among some for the amount of power vested in the president and the national government. The debate over this plan caused Gorge Washington to wait to back the plan until late September. So on the 17th of November the convention ended and the Constitution sent to the states. The first states to ratify the new construction were Delaware, Pennsylvania, and New Jersey all in December. Next in line was Georgia and Connecticut, both of which ratified in January. However even with the string of ratifications the anti-federalists were still as strong as ever. When it came time for the Massachusetts ratification convention 2 prominent anti federalists , John Handcock and Samuel Adams, proposed a compromise to the federalists. This compromise called for a set of amendments to be made that laid out the rights of the people and the states in exchange for Massachusetts ratifying. All though the federalist had no problems with the individual rights part, they absolutely hated the state right parts and they refused the offer thinking they would still be able to carry the state. This mind set was destroyed when on February 6th 1788 Massachusetts would refuse the Constitution. While Maryland, and South Carolina would still ratify others states like Virginia, North Carolina, and New York would not. Rhode Island even refused to consider the new Constitution. So when the ratification convention in New Hampshire was gathered all eyes were on it. And when the result was given it changed the history of the young nation. They refused.
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So for any one reading this is my first timeline so please give some criticism and tell me what you think.
 
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Chapter 1

Old city hall of New York city
CHAPTER 1:

When New Hampshire refused the new constitution the political scene of America was thrown into chaos. The federalists and anti-federalists started to do everything in there power to gain power over the one another. The Anti federalist called for a 2nd constructional convention in new York. But when they met on May 5th 1790 only delegates from 6 states showed up, as the federalists boycotted the convention. The stalemate was even apparent to the average citizen as it would be reported that some would have debates at the local taverns. When it reached George Washington himself he sent the a document now know as the State of The Nation to congress outlining his grievances with what was happening. Although this could of stopped the argument to really did nothing. The two sides were to far gone and not even the great George Washington could force them to compromise. This all came to a head when Vermont applied for statehood. To many this may seem like a stupid thing for Vermont to do, but you have to look at the situation at the time, you see the area of Vermont was claimed by two different states new York and new Hampshire. This state of being clamed by 2 states caused Vermont to side with the federalists, hoping that a strong government would protect them. When the application made it to congress, some argued that it was not the time to be accepting new states. But it still made it to vote were it was shot down by states voting in line with there "party". Mean while Kentucky rescinded there application to become a state and started looking at other options. To this end they called a yet another convention like those before but this one would be called the Danville congress by histories after the city they met in. They looked at many options, some wanted to wait for the government in new York to make up there mind, another option was to send the application to new York anyway, neither was very popular. Another option was presented by James Wilkinson independence. Although the idea was popular with a couple members of the Danville congress it quickly gained popularity when the Declaration of Sovereignty was written and presented by Wilkinson. Little did they know when they voted to adopt the declaration they would dramatically affect the history of America.
 
Chapter 2

Kentucky war of independece reenactors

Chapter 2
The Kentucky war of independence*:
when Kentucky declare there independence in august 1792 Virginia immediately demanded that congress do something. However when they did they were told that nothing could be done, as they not only had no money to go to war . It was this that many say is what push Virginia to leave the USA on November 20th 1792. After this they began to raise an army over the winter months, and plan for the complete invasion of Kentucky. They formally invaded Kentucky on march 1st with a 4,200 man army. The plan was to slit up the army into 4 groups to take out the 4 main city's Danville, Louisville, Lexington, and Harrodtown. Many directing the war were expecting a easy war given the much smaller population but this war from the truth. While this planning and war preparation in Virginia was going on the Danville congress was reaching out to various powers and states for assistance. The first nation they contacted was Spain. Spain would agree to alliance and would send supplies to the fledgling nation. However the place that most directly help would be Pennsylvania. Not only would Pennsylvania allied and sent supplies to them but also began to raise there militia in case of Virginian retaliation to these polices. When the Virginias were making there way to their objectives they were harassed by frontiersmen and these attacks would reduce the Virginias moral. Once they got to their various city's the generals leading the army's were surprised to see some of the Kentuckians were armed with modern military weapons and even a couple of cannons. This did not deter them and they lunched attacks on there objectives. The most memorable battle being the 1st battle of Danville where the two armies fought to a stalemate. The other battles were not much batter, in Harrodtown and Lexington the Virginias also lost. They only managed to take Louisville which become the center for Virginian plans, which had to be changed. The new plan was to attack smaller towns and outposts to try and weaken the fledgling nation. How ever instead of the burning of there farms discerning the Kentuckians, it only further encouraged them to fight. This isn't to say that the Kentuckian forces were doing perfectly, because they weren't. While they had Pennsylvania and Spain as suppliers, the soldiers had no training. This would cause many mishapes,espesialy with the few cannon crews. But these accident would gradual decline over the course of the but, never completely go away. Needless to say the 2 sides were at a stalemate. It was in attempt to end this stalemate that George Weedon would try to take Danville again. So on May 1st 1794 Weedon Launch a 2nd attack on Danville. During the fighting that day Weedon would die** in the fighting allowing Daniel Boone to rout the Virginian forces. With out a major forces breathing down there backs they began to clean up the smaller armies. After that they marched to Lexington to end the siege there. After that they called on the Virginia to end the war. The Virginians agreed to a cease fire because over the last 2 years they had grown tired of the war. They agreed to have the treaty be negotiated in Lexington as the people representing the nations were already in the area. Virginia would send Heratio gates and Daniel Morgan to meet Daniel boon and Squire Boone. The Treaty would be approved by Virginia on December 1s 1794 and Kentucky on January 1st 1795. And with a whimper the Kentucky war was over. Treaty of Lexington leave the nation of Virginia bitter but happy. Bitter because Kentucky won there independence but happy that the war was over.



old congress hall Philadelphia
America:
Virginias secession sent ripples through the nation because it now signaled that others could leave. The 1st state to act on this idea was Rhode island which left on December 1st 1792. The next to leave was north Carolina on February 5th. It was because of these secessions that the federalists began to prepare for enough states to leave to have the construction come into effect. Cut off from the rest of America the states of south Carolina and Georgia seceded on April 15th and 20th respectively. With the c now having 2/3rds of the remaining states signed on the federalist called for the states to appoint senators for the new congress of the united states and started preparations for the election for president. Enraged by this the remaining anti-federalist states all left the union by September 1793. This was the states of New York, Massachusetts, And New Hampshire. Massachusetts and new Hampshire would from an alliance to together against American expansion. Connecticut despite being cut off by new York did not pull a South Carolina and stayed in the union. During this federalist leader Hamilton and the capitol itself moved to Philadelphia. Alexander Hamilton would be elected as president of the president of the United States on January 10 1794.
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* the next war I cover will have more depth
**no one knows how he died. Some say it was his old age, others say it was a stray bullet.
 
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To any reading this tl, I am planning on America building a new capital like otl but I have no idea where to put it. My initial thoughts where to place it in Columbia Pennsylvania but with Connecticut congressmen having to having to trek to the rest of the united states it might be an issue having it that far in land and (as far as I am aware) no navigable river. I have really no other ideas so do you guys have any.
 
One wonders how London will react to the collapse of the US. Certainly, their position vis-a-vis the territorial disputes in the now-Midwest will be much strengthened. I imagine they will quickly recognise the newly independant states and try to negotiate either return to the imperial fold or protectorate status. Whether they're successful or not is another matter. Either way, I'd expect the European powers to play the various newly independant American states against each other, possibly even using them as proxies.
 
One wonders how London will react to the collapse of the US. Certainly, their position vis-a-vis the territorial disputes in the now-Midwest will be much strengthened. I imagine they will quickly recognise the newly independant states and try to negotiate either return to the imperial fold or protectorate status. Whether they're successful or not is another matter. Either way, I'd expect the European powers to play the various newly independant American states against each other, possibly even using them as proxies.
I don't plan on any of they new states being reintroduced to the empire any way but maybe alliance. And yea your right in the idea that the new nations are not buddy, buddy so europe will definitely take advantage.
 
With this much conflict, I'm surprised no colonial power came in to grab some land.
With spain they don't really see a need for any lands that they could take( like kentuky), france is dealing with the revolution against the Ancien Régime. Britans reaction I will cover in the next update.
 
With spain they don't really see a need for any lands that they could take( like kentuky), france is dealing with the revolution against the Ancien Régime. Britans reaction I will cover in the next update.
OTL, Spain claimed everything south and west of the Tennessee river - lower half of Tennessee, Mississippi, Alabama, a border of Florida much north of current Florida (where Britain had put the border while it had control), and the western half of Georgia. They only backed down because the UNITED states were getting bigger and backed by Britain. Here, with the ex-British colonies splintering, Spain will certainly keep up the claim. If OTL European events continue as happened, these lands will incorporate into Florida when Louisiana goes back to France.

OTL, Spain only had actual control of Natchez and West Florida (basically the panhandle region to the Mississippi River.) At a bare minimum, they'll keep those and a more northern border for Florida, whereas OTL they gave up Natchez and the northern border, then the Floridas a couple decades later.

Also, OTL, Kentucky toyed with the idea of joining with Spain, as Virginia was not giving them any help vs the natives. I would suspect they would turn to Spain for assistance under duress.

Also, Also, don't forget that NY, MA, CT, VA all had competing claims on the northwest territory, and NY, PA, CT had disputes on northern PA, while NY, VT, MA had disputes on eastern NY border. Most of these disputes, especially the NW territory, were only settled by the central gov't, which here doesn't exist. The northern states are likely to help KY to deny VA.
 
OTL, Spain claimed everything south and west of the Tennessee river - lower half of Tennessee, Mississippi, Alabama, a border of Florida much north of current Florida (where Britain had put the border while it had control), and the western half of Georgia. They only backed down because the UNITED states were getting bigger and backed by Britain. Here, with the ex-British colonies splintering, Spain will certainly keep up the claim. If OTL European events continue as happened, these lands will incorporate into Florida when Louisiana goes back to France.
I knew that west florida was claimed by spain which is what we know know as alabama and mississippi (and some parts of florida). I however did not know that they claimed parts of tennessee and could not find it in my (albeit brief) research. if you or some one else could provide a source that says so it would be greatly appreciated.
Also, OTL, Kentucky toyed with the idea of joining with Spain, as Virginia was not giving them any help vs the natives. I would suspect they would turn to Spain for assistance under duress.
Why did i not consider this when writing the kentucky war, speaking of which
The northern states are likely to help KY to deny VA.
I really do feel stupid for not considering that as a reason for northern assistance. Well off to fix the kentucky war part of chapter 2
Also, Also, don't forget that NY, MA, CT, VA all had competing claims on the northwest territory, and NY, PA, CT had disputes on northern PA, while NY, VT, MA had disputes on eastern NY border. Most of these disputes, especially the NW territory, were only settled by the central gov't, which here doesn't exist.
1) NY and MA can not really back up there calms in the north west as they are isolated from that region
2) there is a central government shared between PA and CT as CT is still a part of America
3) I have for some time been planing a war between America, New york, And the New Hampshire/Massachusetts alliance, which is going to involve those claims
4) regarding Virginia it all depends on Kentucky. If they gain there independence then Virginia will be like New York, with the difference being they still calm what is otl Ohio just not the rest of it which could cause problems. If kentucky fails then virginia could jump into the war i mentioned above. But i am not sure at this point

anyway thanks not only for committing but for helping fix this timeline and giving me new angles to consider
 
Keep in mind that the UK also claimed much of the Northwest territories and part of Maine, and only ceded those claims after the War of 1812, which ended fairly inconclusively. I very much doubt that the divided colonies could win a war with Britain, even while it's distracted, nor would be willing to risk one. There certainly wouldn't be a Louisiana purchase, if for no other reason that it is highly doubtful any of the small colonies could afford it, nor would France or Spain see them as able to hold it against the British. So the Western end of the Mississippi valley is likely to end up either a continued Spanish colony, part of some sort of Über-Mexico, a British colony or an independant state in its own right (I seriously doubt France would be permitted to keep it). There sure as hell wouldn't be a Texas, or American California, and certainly not a Monroe Doctrine. Expect the European powers to remain very involved in American (the continent) affairs.
 
So the Western end of the Mississippi valley is likely to end up either a continued Spanish colony, part of some sort of Über-Mexico, a British colony or an independant state in its own right
This is assuming that the Napoleonic wars and in fact the whole of the history of Europe has been going along the same while the states squabble.
 
If Spain holds on to Louisiana Territory, it will have the upper hand in holding it. New Orleans and St Louis were rapidly growing, and steamboats were about to revolutionize travel north in the valley. People often think western migration is going to happen no matter what, without control, but I think half an effort on the part of Spain can keep control of the situation.

I think Frrf is correct in his list of choices. France is the only other option. Nap has to come to power, since forcing Spain to turn it over was his idea, as was selling it to the US. If you butterfly him, you butterfly French Louisiana. No one else realistically has a shot at the region from foreign shores.

If Spain bumbles along, US states could maybe nibble some off the northern section, but by and large, Spain/Mexico can control the valley.
 
I think Frrf is correct in his list of choices. France is the only other option. Nap has to come to power, since forcing Spain to turn it over was his idea, as was selling it to the US. If you butterfly him, you butterfly French Louisiana. No one else realistically has a shot at the region from foreign shores.
scratches French Louisiana off of possibilities list.
 
I'm going to backtrack a little. France could still get LA back, sans Nap. This is Alt History. Just write it so whatever man in charge has the same idea. It's cheesy and Turtledovish (especially if every thing goes as OTL even if massive changes elsewhere occur), but it's not an impossibility. People here claim it was written into the treaty giving it to Spain that France had the right to request it back (presumably with commensurate payment). It's not outlandish that the French decide they want the region, but it's not going to happen as OTL.
 
I'm going to backtrack a little. France could still get LA back, sans Nap. This is Alt History. Just write it so whatever man in charge has the same idea. It's cheesy and Turtledovish (especially if every thing goes as OTL even if massive changes elsewhere occur), but it's not an impossibility. People here claim it was written into the treaty giving it to Spain that France had the right to request it back (presumably with commensurate payment). It's not outlandish that the French decide they want the region, but it's not going to happen as OTL.
I will keep that in mind
 
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