Lusitania
Donor
The amount of debt was crippling to the federal government. Yet the separate countries seem fine. Sorry not adding up
We Refuse
- Thread starter Red Wolfe
- Start date
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- Tags
- balkanized america
yea sorry its something i should have been thinking about but wasn't. Any suggestions how i should fix that becuse i am a lost.
For Freedonia's capital why not make Augusta the capital its on the Savannah river and can work as a compromise capital plus the government doesn't have to spend money as Augusta is already an established city.
Savannah is basically the same perks as Augusta but I think South Carolina would Reject Savannah as it is the traditional capital of Georgia.
Savannah is basically the same perks as Augusta but I think South Carolina would Reject Savannah as it is the traditional capital of Georgia.
Lusitania
Donor
At this stage I cannot see a recourse other than maybe Napoleon invading and capturing say southern states after they defaulted on payment. Causing major economic calamity in rest of states as they react to French action. Some ask to grab part of Britain. So not sure.
I dont think the french republic is in a place to invade the south. Especially since there only launch pad for such an invasion is in complete revolt(haiti)
Lusitania
Donor
You asked for a resolution to the TL. The French have a bigger ability than the various countries to be in the financial position they in. I would expect huge tarifs in place and government coffers dry due to no $$
1) I was not asking for a resolution but instead help in figuring out how the nations in eastern north america would handle their debt
2) Where would france launch your proposed invasion. The only real place i could think of is haiti and they are revolting at the moment. Not only that but france is currently too distracted by the Coalition wars to even think about invading any place in North America.
3) I like the idea of high triffs on the new nations any other ideas.
Lusitania
Donor
After the piece of Amiens when peace returned to Europe Napoleon would of demanded payment of the debt and failure to do so would resultedcapture of several ports to press resolutions of the debt.
The various states would not have any $$ to pay for imports so not sure where weapons come from or imports since no $$ to buy anything.
So here is my plan after some deliberation at least for the south/ kentucky. Fredonia will sell their western territories for some easy cash, Kentucky will just be dirt poor, North carolina and virginia will agree to a free trade deal with france for a reduction in debt. Any thoughts on this plan and any ideas for the north.
Lusitania
Donor
Yes but at this point a demonstration by Napoleon after repeated failure be required. Then yes there be agreements and financial crunch. Remember you get 2-4 years then blockade by British.
As for north. Do they stay independent? Do some return to Britain? Others joins US. What US do?
That is where my problems lay New Hampshire, Massachusetts, and Rhode Island are very anti America and they are not going to want to accept the britsh monarchy let alone rejoin britsh north america. The french republic also would not want to negotiate with british allies.
Lusitania
Donor
After peace of Amiens there was peace in Europe. Napoleon wants $$ so he negotiate will the states accept his terms. Plus no sale of French Louisiana both east or west of Mississippi
1)And what do you think those terms would be free trade or something else
2) what if there is no napoleonic empire( or is it nearly impossible to butterfly him with a pod at the Constitutional convention)
Lusitania
Donor
Nothing America does would impede him in power. The failure of American states to pay or acknowledge the debt would of been even worse for French monarchy. So you have guaranteed even worse collapse of monarchy
well thanks for killing 2 birds with one stone. So here is the timeline changes for consideration
1) Following the independence of the many of the American states a few defalt on said debts. Which is where the butterflies hit Europe.
2) Georiga before uniting with south carolina sells its western territory to spain for some easy cash.
3) those that don't default agree to free trade for easing the burden of debt.
Is that good
unprincipled peter
Donor
Spain already claims ownership of western/southern Georgia, along with half of Tennessee, through right of conquest during the American Revolution. I suppose, though, that they might slide a little cash over to settle it once and for all (I doubt it, but hey, this is AltHistory and if the completely unbelievable OTL US can happen, so can a lot of things). Spain is going to be firmly entrenched in Natchez. They also have a fort on the site of Memphis. In this timeline, they are in solid control of the Mississippi valley and in good position to push the boundary east.
IF Europe has gone anywhere near OTL, France is going to squeeze Spain to squeeze the states from the west. This includes transport on the Miss. Everyone will be at the mercy of Spain. I can see a lot more European immigration to Spanish Louisiana.
1) I have found out that you are right in saying that they had a fort in tennessee but i still cant find a map that show how far those claims went( or any source saying how serious they were)if you or someone else can help find that info it would be appreciated
2) even if they don't manage to take tennessee we ,have by breaking up america, created a super spain of sorts. Wonderful
unprincipled peter
Donor
It's wiki, but:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_Florida#Possession_by_Britain
"
The Spanish government assumed that the boundary was the same as in the 1763 agreement by which they had first given their territory in Florida to Britain, claiming that the northern boundary of West Florida was at the 32° 22′ boundary established by Britain in 1764 after the Seven Years' War. The British line at 32° 22′ was close to Spain's old claim of 32° 30′, which can be justified by referring to the principle of actual possession adopted by Spain and England in the 1670 Treaty of Madrid.[43] The now independent United States insisted that the boundary was at 31°, as specified in its Treaty of Paris with Britain.
After American independence, Spain claimed far more land than the old British West Florida, including the east side of the Mississippi River north to the Ohio and Tennessee rivers.[44] This expanded claim was based on Spain's successful military operations against the British in the region during the war. Spain occupied or built several forts north of the old British West Florida border, including Fort Confederación, Fort Nogales (at present-day Vicksburg), and Fort San Fernando (at present-day Memphis).[45][46] "
44: Weber, David J. (1992). The Spanish frontier in North America. New Haven, Connecticut, USA: Yale University Press. pp. 277–279. ISBN 978-0-300-05917-5. Retrieved 2011-03-21.
the historic Georgia border dispute should be pretty easy to find.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_Florida#Possession_by_Britain
"
The Spanish government assumed that the boundary was the same as in the 1763 agreement by which they had first given their territory in Florida to Britain, claiming that the northern boundary of West Florida was at the 32° 22′ boundary established by Britain in 1764 after the Seven Years' War. The British line at 32° 22′ was close to Spain's old claim of 32° 30′, which can be justified by referring to the principle of actual possession adopted by Spain and England in the 1670 Treaty of Madrid.[43] The now independent United States insisted that the boundary was at 31°, as specified in its Treaty of Paris with Britain.
After American independence, Spain claimed far more land than the old British West Florida, including the east side of the Mississippi River north to the Ohio and Tennessee rivers.[44] This expanded claim was based on Spain's successful military operations against the British in the region during the war. Spain occupied or built several forts north of the old British West Florida border, including Fort Confederación, Fort Nogales (at present-day Vicksburg), and Fort San Fernando (at present-day Memphis).[45][46] "
44: Weber, David J. (1992). The Spanish frontier in North America. New Haven, Connecticut, USA: Yale University Press. pp. 277–279. ISBN 978-0-300-05917-5. Retrieved 2011-03-21.
the historic Georgia border dispute should be pretty easy to find.