Verhandlungsfrieden - Europe in 1960

Iluminatili

Verhandlungsfrieden 1960.png


This is a concept for a timeline where the Great War ends in a draw. There are some changes in German leadership early in the war and because of that the US doesn't join the war and the stalemate on the Western front is eventually solved by a mutually agreeable peace treaty in 1920.

The Febuary and October revolutions still happen but the course of the Russian civil war is different, mostly because Germany has a hand in it. That leads to the creation of several new countries in Eastern Europe and the Caucasus.

The Ottoman Empire doesn't survive long after the war. It's torn apart by ethnic strive from it Arabic and Christian population. (Here I'm not sure about the existence and size of Kurdistan and borders of the Arab nations are drawn kinda randomly, they need a rework)

Austria-Hungary on the other hand limps on for another generation and finally dissolves in the 1940s. The ending begins with the succesion of Hungary. After that Cisleithania dissolves mostly peacefully, In Hungary the other nationalities have to fight for indepenance and after years of war and intervention by several great powers Croatia, Slovakia and Transylvania reach independance.


All of this is very much a work in progress. So, yeah, gimme your thoughts, I'm very interested
 

Iluminatili

Some points of interest

Baltic Republic: An unlikely union created as a buffer between Germany and Russia. Germans wanted to put a Hohenzollern on the throne but France and Britain wouldn't have that. So now it's a republic.

Bukovina: Created as an idependent nation, mostly on the insistance of Germany to protect the German minority.

Transylvania: Hardly fought between Hungary and th local Romanians. After the peace treaty they swapped most of their Romanian and Hungarian population. Also they aren't allowed to join Romania proper.

Tsarist Crimea!

Northern Caucasia: Held together by an authotitarian regime. Highly militarized with the help of great powers. Created to hold the communists at bay.

Kurdistan? Honestly I'm not so sure about that one.

Arabia: Sort of similar to OTL except there's no Israel. I'm not to sure about that one. It might make sense to have the Holy Land as a seperat country maybe as a protectorate of some country or even the League of Nations.
 

lukedalton

The war end in the 20's and frankly we will have a continent wide revolution and there is nothing that Germany can do to stop, they will barely hang on (and frankly it's not a given); two more years of the massacre are not sustainable for CP and ENtente alike

Edit: if the peace treaty it's mutally agreeable France and Italy will need something to save face
 

Pylon_Mountain

Iluminatili said:
Transylvania: Hardly fought between Hungary and th local Romanians. After the peace treaty they swapped most of their Romanian and Hungarian population. Also they aren't allowed to join Romania proper.
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What happened to the german population in the area? There were nearly 250,000 of them in the region at the time but they would probably have something to say in a mostly-peaceful breakup of A-H.
 

Iluminatili

Tannenberg said:
There is an Anchluss on this world?
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Nope. And I don't think it will happen.
The Emperor still exists and is an important point of identification. Though Australia is a is a parlmatarian monarchy at this point.

Austrians habe forged a separat identity and many are only Luke warm on the idea. And the ethnic minorities hate the idea.
 

Iluminatili

lukedalton said:
The war end in the 20's and frankly we will have a continent wide revolution and there is nothing that Germany can do to stop, they will barely hang on (and frankly it's not a given); two more years of the massacre are not sustainable for CP and ENtente alike

Edit: if the peace treaty it's mutally agreeable France and Italy will need something to save face
Click to expand...


The fighting continues for less then a year longer then it does OTL. Entente and the Central Powers sine an armistice in the fall of 1919. From there it takes several months to come to an agreement and the peace is sined in late spring/early summer of 1920.

I'm still working out what the allies get out of the agreement. Maybe some gains in the colonies. They conquered them fair and square after all.
I think reparations to Belgium would buy Germany some good will.
German assurance not to intervene in favor of the rapidly declining Ottoman Empire.

I'm open for suggestions on this.
 

Iluminatili

Historyman 14 said:
Hmm...

Maybe let Austria keep the Sudetenland, or even all of Bohemia.
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The idea was that Bohemia-Moravia becomes independant under the condition that Germans and Czechs are granted equal rights. So now it's a federal republic with German language and Czech language states.

I know that's kind of a weird construct but i think it makes sense as a compromise between the great powers in Europe.
 

Iluminatili

FillyofDelphi said:
How are the states in the Caucuses exactly surviving?
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Georgia, Azerbaijan and Armenia seem pretty viable to me. Any reasons they wouldn't be?
Though I'm not entirely sure about the shape of Armenia. I might change that with the next iteration.

That North Caucasian monstrosity on the other hand... I'd say violence. Lots and lots of violence against its own population. Also a surprisingly large military payed for with natural ressource money.
 

FillyofDelphi

Banned
Iluminatili said:
Georgia, Azerbaijan and Armenia seem pretty viable to me. Any reasons they wouldn't be?
Though I'm not entirely sure about the shape of Armenia. I might change that with the next iteration.

That North Caucasian monstrosity on the other hand... I'd say violence. Lots and lots of violence against its own population. Also a surprisingly large military payed for with natural ressource money.
Click to expand...

No, I mean why haven't the Soviets crushed these isolated states.
 

FillyofDelphi

Banned
Iluminatili said:
The region was originally held with help from German and French and volunteer troups.

Nowadays Northern Caucasia and Azerbaijan have defense treaties with Germany
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A war that lasts into 1920 is a war in which France and German manpower has already been scraped to the bottom of the barrel, war weariness is high, and their economy is in tatters. The region also lacks a strong logistical base from which to conduct and supply a large-scale outside campaign compared to the forces the Soviets could support from the production centers and logistics base along the Caspian Sea and Lower Volga. How on earth was such an operation conducts or agreed to to defend a region so marginal to Franco-German interests?

The only way I could see this working is if the OE was still stable and active in the region, as well as being important and valuble as an ally enough post-war that both sides want to defend their interests and could use them as a base of operations/supply.
 
SealTheRealDeal

SealTheRealDeal

Iluminatili said:
View attachment 387409

This is a concept for a timeline where the Great War ends in a draw. There are some changes in German leadership early in the war and because of that the US doesn't join the war and the stalemate on the Western front is eventually solved by a mutually agreeable peace treaty in 1920.

The Febuary and October revolutions still happen but the course of the Russian civil war is different, mostly because Germany has a hand in it. That leads to the creation of several new countries in Eastern Europe and the Caucasus.

The Ottoman Empire doesn't survive long after the war. It's torn apart by ethnic strive from it Arabic and Christian population. (Here I'm not sure about the existence and size of Kurdistan and borders of the Arab nations are drawn kinda randomly, they need a rework)

Austria-Hungary on the other hand limps on for another generation and finally dissolves in the 1940s. The ending begins with the succesion of Hungary. After that Cisleithania dissolves mostly peacefully, In Hungary the other nationalities have to fight for indepenance and after years of war and intervention by several great powers Croatia, Slovakia and Transylvania reach independance.


All of this is very much a work in progress. So, yeah, gimme your thoughts, I'm very interested
Click to expand...
Slovene recognized as second official language in Austria?
 
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