But colleges might have an interest to communicate between themselves.
Otherwise, could a *Minitel emerge?
Twilight of the Red Tsar
- Thread starter Napoleon IV
- Start date
-
- Tags
- dystopia stalin lives
- Status
But colleges might have an interest to communicate between themselves.
Otherwise, could a *Minitel emerge?
Well since the Cold War ended a generation earlier, this could mean that innovation is directed to conveniences for the common man a generation earlier as well
So what's going on in Ukraine, the Baltics, Kazakhstan and the other non Russian Soviet states?
I HAVEN'T HAD THIS MUCH FUN SINCE THE FRENCH REVOLUTION!
That... doesn't really surprised me to be honest.
YEEHAW!
Though I'm surprised that for every Russian refugee arriving in free Europe we don't see 10 Ukrainian's, Belarusian's, Latvians etc. Not to mental the possible street violence between various eastern European national/ethnic groups arriving in western Europe.
Bookmark1995
Banned
I think much of the world has lumped all those people together. When a Latvian has to explain where he's from to an American, everybody will think "Soviet". And unless he claims to be Jewish, that person will not get a ton of sympathy.
I'm not. The civil war would displace millions of ethnic Russians from their homes too, not only people of other ethnicities. Most of the fighting is in Russia. And there are tens of millions more Russians than Belorussians, Ukrainians, Latvians, Lithuanians and Estonians put together.
Will Central Asia even WANT to be part of Russia after this shit storm ends?
There's probably various armed independence movements in Ukraine, Belarus, Lithuania, Kazakhstan etc. Being supported by the West to further damage the Soviets. Along with some rather nasty forced removal of ethnic Russian, throughout the Soviet Union, outside of Russia proper.
Lost Freeway
Banned
Nobody remembers that the Baltic States were forcefully annexed by the USSR in WW2?
They would not remember but news of uprisings and ethnic clensings might not make them lumped together.
Soviets made all possible erase histories of independent Baltic Republics. And probably people have forgotten in almost 30 years that there was such nations as Estonia, Latvia, and Lithuania. And Americans hardly have ever heard such nations. Even many OTL Americans think that Finland is part of Russia. And probably they think same as from Baltics too.
OTL Soviet Union did try to erase the histories of independent Baltic Republics, and they had 20 more years than TTL Soviet Union, but that didn't really accomplish much.
Sunrise
Since people wanted to know what was going on in Japan, I tried to come up with things the new Japanese government would be doing.
Article 9 of the Japanese Constitution, forbidding an offensive army and the ability to declare war, had been a hard pill to swallow from the start, but though there were strong objections, even at the height of the Korean War the restriction remained in place. This finally changed in light of the Sino-Soviet War – with the armies of two Communist titans reeking havoc in Asia, the sheer scale of the conflict was simply not enough for the US army alone to reliably contain, especially owing to commitments in Europe. While Germany had been swallowed into the EDC to thwart any military being established independently, Japan was without such an option. President Nixon would deliberate this decision early into his tenure, before deciding that the West needed all the help it could get in containing the violence in Asia. In March of 1957, Nixon made his first state visit as President to Japan as part of a tour of Asia, where the terms of the new terms of the American-Japanese relationship were established.
After a week of talks, the Treaty of Kyoto (1957) would resurrect the Japanese army. While Japan was still forbidden from creating WMDs (something the Japanese were uninterested in anyway), the restrictions on the scale of the army were lifted, although the validity of American bases, the restrictions on the Navy and the existing power structure of American-Japanese relations were maintained. As a result, the percentage of GDP that Japan spent on the military went from less than 1% in 1957 to 4% in 1967. Quickly flexing its muscles, Japan, with some convincing by the part of American on the members, joined SEATO in 1960.
Despite the strong military build up, a blessing to America since it freed up its obligations and spared soldiers for elsewhere in the world, the Japanese were unable to put their army to any military use. They were forbidden from even humanitarian aid during the Second Chinese Civil War, and indeed when Korea was reunified, they were once again forbidden from involving themselves due to the hostile locals. Some wondered if the army would ever be used.
This would change during the course of the Soviet Civil War.
Excerpt from The Rise, Fall and Rise of Japan by Yusuke Urameshi
When it came to the Kuril Islands, though most of the islands were considered lawfully Russian, four areas were disputed: Iturup, Kunashir, Shikotan and the Habomai rocks. While the Treaty of San Francisco (1951) had seen Japan relinquish her claims to the Kuril Islands, not only did the Treaty not recognise Soviet authority over the region, but those four areas were said by the Japanese to not belong to the Kuril Island chain at all. To Japan, these were areas slammed shut behind the Iron Curtain, and it seemed unlikely they would get them back.
Then the August Revolution happened, and suddenly it was an entirely new world. While the far east of Russia had fallen to the CNS, the four disputed areas, owing to reinforcement in previous years to deter any Japanese invasion brought about by Japan's rebuilding of her military, remained stubbornly unaffected. The CNS was uninterested in securing useless Pacific islands when a battle for life and death was occurring in the plains of Europe, leaving the Soviet defenders to isolation. As a result, Prime Minister Eisaku Satō began to discuss military options to secure the four disputed territories.
Backlog discussions between the American Government, the Japanese Government and the CNS began. The main concern, of course, was the thought of the Soviets seeing the invasion as worthy of nuclear retaliation. After discussions with the CNS and Pentagon, including an up-and-coming foreign policy hawk by the name of Henry Kissinger, it was concluded that the Soviets simply were not as much of a threat in respect of ICBMs than was thought by the White House only a few years ago [1]. On top of that, said missiles were now halved, with half now in the possession of the CNS, eliminating the concept of MAD as there was simply no reasonable way the Soviets could prove a nuclear match for the West, the former Warsaw Pact, China and half of the once Soviet Union, including most of the infrastructure. Finally, it was concluded that in such a limited circumstance, with small islands surrounded on all sides by the CNS that the Soviets would not respond, especially owing to their razor thin advantage in the main conflict at the time. However, much like Mao’s China, it would be under the guise of ‘volunteers’ to further avoid an all out conflict. This ‘volunteer’ unit, would feature some of the most advanced technology in the Japanese armed forces, nominally under the command of the CNS, de facto under the command of Tokyo and Washington.
On the 30th of January of 1968, Operation Tsushima, named after the famous Japanese victory over Russia, began. Though under-reported, the aid of the US navy for transport and logistics was substantial, despite the national myth that evolved in Japan of an almost entirely Japanese only operation. The troops used were the best to be found in Japan at the time, utilizing top quality Mitsubishi and Toyota constructed military vehicles, a point of pride in Japan, as they didn’t use American technology. What they found were half-starved remnants of Soviet troops who had resorted to eating grass to try and stay alive. Almost everyone immediately surrendered, though a few more committed Communists tried to hang on, who were mercilessly obliterated by the Japanese. Within a single day, all four areas were declared secured. American and British observers who saw the action were impressed by the success of the Japanese performance, even against such weak opposition. As a result, the islands fell into Japanese occupation. Predictably, the response from Stalingrad was less fearsome than the more pessimistic had feared, saying, “Once the home-grown Fascist menace has been defeated, the Japanese menace will likewise be defeated.” Even Chiang Kai-Shek sent a surprising statement of congratulations to Japan for, "Standing up for Asia against the savages who raped our nation."
But that was not the end of it. In 1968, the CNS was on a losing streak, and there was a genuine sense among some in the West that the Soviets just might be able to claw themselves back from the death. In that case, with swelling nationalist pride growing in Japan, Satō once again entered discussions with the CNS in February, this time regarding the sale of the remainder of the Kuril Islands and Sakhalin Island to Japan in return for $3 billion and 1000 military advisors. The money would be paid over several years, and the islands would be transferred to Japan on January 1st 1972. In return, the rights of the inhabitants of the islands would be respected, and significant regional autonomy would be granted.
When word of this reached the CNS, a ferocious debate erupted among the leadership between pragmatists and nationalists. While they were debating, however, the Israeli representative to the United Nations, Yosef Tekoah, gave a speech that in the words of one Assembly member, “chilled the bones of everyone in the room for the rest of the week.” In a debate on the legality of representation of the CNS in the UN, he expanded his speech to include the totality of not just Soviet, but Russian history:
“In recent Russian history, there was a revolution by a band of people. The regime they sought to replace was anti-Semitic, authoritarian and a nightmare to Eastern Europe, while they preached openness, freedom and equality. But I’m not talking about the Second Russian Civil War, I’m talking about the first. That revolution, which spoke so much of freedom to the oppressed has led to the most oppression any corner of the world has ever seen. So while we will continue to do all we can to destroy the monstrosity of the Soviet government, we will not allow the world to pretend that the CNS will absolve a characteristic in Russia that festered long before Communism was even invented.”
The remarks drew standing ovation from the former Warsaw Pact, Chinese and Iranian representatives, and little dissent elsewhere. As the same member recalled, “It was a brutal wake-up call to reality. Many of us assumed that we would never lose, because the West would always have our back since we were their best chance to remove the Communists. Then we realised that even if we did overthrow the Communists, or even if we did have our back against the ropes, we would still be Russians, and the world would still hate us; we needed all the help we could get. It put our frailty into perspective, and some dead islands on the far side of the world that none of us had ever seen suddenly seemed very trivial indeed.” Reluctantly, the CNS signed onto the deal, inviting fury among the Soviets for “selling the Soviet people to the highest bidder.” However, most residents of the islands didn’t mind, correctly seeing that Russia, whoever won, was facing existential crisis, and that perhaps it wasn’t so bad to have new owners, ones who offered substantially more human rights than the Soviet Union ever did.
As the famous Japanese artist Yukiyo Mishima [2] recorded, “Japan’s ancient virility has reasserted itself. It shall play no servant, no slave, only the divine destiny for which its people were intended.” The statement referenced the outpouring of patriotism in Japanese society once the acquisition was made official. Prime Minister Satō would become one of the most popular figures in the history of Japan for his restoration of Japanese pride on a military and national level, which would have both good effects (the addition of a strong military force to the Western powers) and bad effects (an even greater desire in Japan to conduct apologism for her transgressions in WW2). Even the initial cost of purchase was eventually made up for in terms of natural gas and mineral reserves. Though still somewhat of a diplomatic sore spot, the Japanese have no intention of giving up the islands. Thus, Japan would enter the third millennium not only with the second largest economy on Earth, but a strong military that’s considered to be the finest in Asia on a man-to-man basis.
[1] – Owing to the purges, inferior economy and needed increase in conventional military spending for China, the Soviet nuclear program is less effective.
[2] – Doesn’t attempt a coup ITTL; he’s impressed enough by modern Japan’s military prowess to give it a shot. He lives on to become an incredibly influential artist, as well as embodying the nationalist euphoria that would define the Japan of the Seventies.
Sunrise
Extract from The Asian Century by Misato Katsuragi
Extract from The Asian Century by Misato Katsuragi
Article 9 of the Japanese Constitution, forbidding an offensive army and the ability to declare war, had been a hard pill to swallow from the start, but though there were strong objections, even at the height of the Korean War the restriction remained in place. This finally changed in light of the Sino-Soviet War – with the armies of two Communist titans reeking havoc in Asia, the sheer scale of the conflict was simply not enough for the US army alone to reliably contain, especially owing to commitments in Europe. While Germany had been swallowed into the EDC to thwart any military being established independently, Japan was without such an option. President Nixon would deliberate this decision early into his tenure, before deciding that the West needed all the help it could get in containing the violence in Asia. In March of 1957, Nixon made his first state visit as President to Japan as part of a tour of Asia, where the terms of the new terms of the American-Japanese relationship were established.
After a week of talks, the Treaty of Kyoto (1957) would resurrect the Japanese army. While Japan was still forbidden from creating WMDs (something the Japanese were uninterested in anyway), the restrictions on the scale of the army were lifted, although the validity of American bases, the restrictions on the Navy and the existing power structure of American-Japanese relations were maintained. As a result, the percentage of GDP that Japan spent on the military went from less than 1% in 1957 to 4% in 1967. Quickly flexing its muscles, Japan, with some convincing by the part of American on the members, joined SEATO in 1960.
Despite the strong military build up, a blessing to America since it freed up its obligations and spared soldiers for elsewhere in the world, the Japanese were unable to put their army to any military use. They were forbidden from even humanitarian aid during the Second Chinese Civil War, and indeed when Korea was reunified, they were once again forbidden from involving themselves due to the hostile locals. Some wondered if the army would ever be used.
This would change during the course of the Soviet Civil War.
Excerpt from The Rise, Fall and Rise of Japan by Yusuke Urameshi
When it came to the Kuril Islands, though most of the islands were considered lawfully Russian, four areas were disputed: Iturup, Kunashir, Shikotan and the Habomai rocks. While the Treaty of San Francisco (1951) had seen Japan relinquish her claims to the Kuril Islands, not only did the Treaty not recognise Soviet authority over the region, but those four areas were said by the Japanese to not belong to the Kuril Island chain at all. To Japan, these were areas slammed shut behind the Iron Curtain, and it seemed unlikely they would get them back.
Then the August Revolution happened, and suddenly it was an entirely new world. While the far east of Russia had fallen to the CNS, the four disputed areas, owing to reinforcement in previous years to deter any Japanese invasion brought about by Japan's rebuilding of her military, remained stubbornly unaffected. The CNS was uninterested in securing useless Pacific islands when a battle for life and death was occurring in the plains of Europe, leaving the Soviet defenders to isolation. As a result, Prime Minister Eisaku Satō began to discuss military options to secure the four disputed territories.
Backlog discussions between the American Government, the Japanese Government and the CNS began. The main concern, of course, was the thought of the Soviets seeing the invasion as worthy of nuclear retaliation. After discussions with the CNS and Pentagon, including an up-and-coming foreign policy hawk by the name of Henry Kissinger, it was concluded that the Soviets simply were not as much of a threat in respect of ICBMs than was thought by the White House only a few years ago [1]. On top of that, said missiles were now halved, with half now in the possession of the CNS, eliminating the concept of MAD as there was simply no reasonable way the Soviets could prove a nuclear match for the West, the former Warsaw Pact, China and half of the once Soviet Union, including most of the infrastructure. Finally, it was concluded that in such a limited circumstance, with small islands surrounded on all sides by the CNS that the Soviets would not respond, especially owing to their razor thin advantage in the main conflict at the time. However, much like Mao’s China, it would be under the guise of ‘volunteers’ to further avoid an all out conflict. This ‘volunteer’ unit, would feature some of the most advanced technology in the Japanese armed forces, nominally under the command of the CNS, de facto under the command of Tokyo and Washington.
On the 30th of January of 1968, Operation Tsushima, named after the famous Japanese victory over Russia, began. Though under-reported, the aid of the US navy for transport and logistics was substantial, despite the national myth that evolved in Japan of an almost entirely Japanese only operation. The troops used were the best to be found in Japan at the time, utilizing top quality Mitsubishi and Toyota constructed military vehicles, a point of pride in Japan, as they didn’t use American technology. What they found were half-starved remnants of Soviet troops who had resorted to eating grass to try and stay alive. Almost everyone immediately surrendered, though a few more committed Communists tried to hang on, who were mercilessly obliterated by the Japanese. Within a single day, all four areas were declared secured. American and British observers who saw the action were impressed by the success of the Japanese performance, even against such weak opposition. As a result, the islands fell into Japanese occupation. Predictably, the response from Stalingrad was less fearsome than the more pessimistic had feared, saying, “Once the home-grown Fascist menace has been defeated, the Japanese menace will likewise be defeated.” Even Chiang Kai-Shek sent a surprising statement of congratulations to Japan for, "Standing up for Asia against the savages who raped our nation."
But that was not the end of it. In 1968, the CNS was on a losing streak, and there was a genuine sense among some in the West that the Soviets just might be able to claw themselves back from the death. In that case, with swelling nationalist pride growing in Japan, Satō once again entered discussions with the CNS in February, this time regarding the sale of the remainder of the Kuril Islands and Sakhalin Island to Japan in return for $3 billion and 1000 military advisors. The money would be paid over several years, and the islands would be transferred to Japan on January 1st 1972. In return, the rights of the inhabitants of the islands would be respected, and significant regional autonomy would be granted.
When word of this reached the CNS, a ferocious debate erupted among the leadership between pragmatists and nationalists. While they were debating, however, the Israeli representative to the United Nations, Yosef Tekoah, gave a speech that in the words of one Assembly member, “chilled the bones of everyone in the room for the rest of the week.” In a debate on the legality of representation of the CNS in the UN, he expanded his speech to include the totality of not just Soviet, but Russian history:
“In recent Russian history, there was a revolution by a band of people. The regime they sought to replace was anti-Semitic, authoritarian and a nightmare to Eastern Europe, while they preached openness, freedom and equality. But I’m not talking about the Second Russian Civil War, I’m talking about the first. That revolution, which spoke so much of freedom to the oppressed has led to the most oppression any corner of the world has ever seen. So while we will continue to do all we can to destroy the monstrosity of the Soviet government, we will not allow the world to pretend that the CNS will absolve a characteristic in Russia that festered long before Communism was even invented.”
The remarks drew standing ovation from the former Warsaw Pact, Chinese and Iranian representatives, and little dissent elsewhere. As the same member recalled, “It was a brutal wake-up call to reality. Many of us assumed that we would never lose, because the West would always have our back since we were their best chance to remove the Communists. Then we realised that even if we did overthrow the Communists, or even if we did have our back against the ropes, we would still be Russians, and the world would still hate us; we needed all the help we could get. It put our frailty into perspective, and some dead islands on the far side of the world that none of us had ever seen suddenly seemed very trivial indeed.” Reluctantly, the CNS signed onto the deal, inviting fury among the Soviets for “selling the Soviet people to the highest bidder.” However, most residents of the islands didn’t mind, correctly seeing that Russia, whoever won, was facing existential crisis, and that perhaps it wasn’t so bad to have new owners, ones who offered substantially more human rights than the Soviet Union ever did.
As the famous Japanese artist Yukiyo Mishima [2] recorded, “Japan’s ancient virility has reasserted itself. It shall play no servant, no slave, only the divine destiny for which its people were intended.” The statement referenced the outpouring of patriotism in Japanese society once the acquisition was made official. Prime Minister Satō would become one of the most popular figures in the history of Japan for his restoration of Japanese pride on a military and national level, which would have both good effects (the addition of a strong military force to the Western powers) and bad effects (an even greater desire in Japan to conduct apologism for her transgressions in WW2). Even the initial cost of purchase was eventually made up for in terms of natural gas and mineral reserves. Though still somewhat of a diplomatic sore spot, the Japanese have no intention of giving up the islands. Thus, Japan would enter the third millennium not only with the second largest economy on Earth, but a strong military that’s considered to be the finest in Asia on a man-to-man basis.
[1] – Owing to the purges, inferior economy and needed increase in conventional military spending for China, the Soviet nuclear program is less effective.
[2] – Doesn’t attempt a coup ITTL; he’s impressed enough by modern Japan’s military prowess to give it a shot. He lives on to become an incredibly influential artist, as well as embodying the nationalist euphoria that would define the Japan of the Seventies.
Last edited:
- Status