"To Introduce our Guest Star, that's What I'm Here to Do..." The Hensonverse Fan Contribution Thread
- Thread starter Geekhis Khan
- Start date
Thank you!
I'll get right on that, it always slips my mind.
I was this close to having the Mysterious Cities of Gold come across with them. I did wonder if maybe that would be a little too convininet. But there's every chance that it'll get brought over in 1993 or 1994.
Is there a contribution in the PMs? Because I don't see anything here.
I was expecting a post not a question. I'll answer this time, but if you're not already in the Ideas thread, I'll invite you there as that's the place to discuss ideas.
I have no opinion on this as I'm not familiar with Cal Dodd or TOM.
Something like this (Not with Miramax) was actually already under consideration by me, so congrats, you're on track.👍 If you want to write something up and post it in the Drafts Thread for review then go for it! Hypothetically could make the Main TL.
And before you do write anything up, please read the whole TL First as you should already know by now that Skellington Productions is known as Skeleton Crew Productions iTTL (it's had several posts about it already) and is underwritten by Disney.
Ah sorry about that and thanks but I am not really much of a long poster so thanks for the offer but I am gonna have to pass
Doorways
Entering the Doorway: A Retrospective On G.R.R. Martin's Doorways
Post from The Doorway Hub Netsite, Posted March 17th, 2016
George R.R. Martin once said, "I want a story to take me to a place that I've never been to before and make it come vividly alive for me." That certainly is the case for us and other George R.R. Martin works, such as A Song Of Ice And Fire and the rest of the Game of Thrones book series. Doorways, however, was a show that, while beloved in its time, has sadly been forgotten about, however, garners a strong and proud cult following to this day. A unique blend of fantasy, sci-fi, steampunk and alternate history, Doorways was a rare gem that seemed to be lost in the even greater gems of the 1990s.
But what would happen if Doorways never came into existence? What if another show slid into it's place? [1] Would it be as successful as Doorways? Or would it be forgotten to time? This, for now, is a question left unanswered. But, now reader, let us Enter the Doorway!
The most epic sci-fi intro (OOC: Via Wikipedia)
Doorways was the brainchild of George R.R. Martin, who, fun fact, wanted to initially name the show Doors but feared people would be confused with the band The Doors, (the former Jim Morrison band that created the many classic rock songs your dad or grandpa insist is real music) and so scrapped the name to the easier to remember Doorways. Martin, by this point had also pitched the idea to at least a dozen studios and was tired of constant rejections [2]. However, a miracle seemed to happen.
According to Martin himself, the call came late one night, as he contemplated scrapping the show entirely, "I heard the ring from down the hall, and I picked up, wondering who was calling so late, and well...it was PFN, who loved the idea, and wanted to greenlight it with me." Martin accepted PFN's deal and began work on a pilot in earnest.
Alongside Martin, showrunners Tracy Tormé and Robert K. Weiss helped to create and shape what would become the Doorways fans knew and cherished. However, it was a rocky start. PFN, although supportive of the idea, was skeptical of Martin's ability to write for TV, especially with such an audacious and ambitious story. PFN wanted to maybe see if they could hold more sway over the show's direction, but Martin was insistent that he and his new team keep full creative control over the show, and PFN, though still skeptical, relented, and gave Martin the space he needed. [3]
Martin would later write the Pilot episode, entitled, simply, 'Doorways'. Unimaginative as a title it is, the episode itself is anything but, introducing the major players in such a unique way.
The Show's Intro Isn't Quite This, but close
The show opens with Cat, played by Carrie-Anne Moss [4], a semi-feral woman who appears in the middle of a busy Los Angeles street, and after shooting a truck with a strange futuristic weapon, is injured by shrapnel and is sent to the hospital. Here, we are introduced to Dr. Thomas Mason (played by the great Jerry O'Connell [5]), who tends to Cat's wounds, discovering that not only he is a dead ringer for his dead girlfriend, who passed a year earlier [6], he also discovers several strange, un-Earthly items on her body, including a strange bracelet and the weapon from earlier. After the strange encounter, Thomas returns home, and, in a moment that used fairly decent SFX for TV, the Dark Lord (voiced by Christopher Lloyd [7], though the studio wanted James Earl Jones initially) appears before him, demanding to hand over the 'captive girl' otherwise, there will be grave consequences.
When Thomas refuses, stating he has 'no idea what he's talking about', The Dark Lord vows revenge and sends Thane (played by Robert Knepper [8]) to try and kill Thomas, and capture Cat, who has now been taken by the FBI under Special Agent Roth Trager (played by Max Grodénchik [9]) and Special Agent Benjamin Rembrandt (played by Montell Jordan [10]), both of whom attempt to discern who exactly Cat is. Meanwhile, Thomas flees for his life from Thane to the hospital, and when they both discover Cat missing, it becomes a race against time, with Thomas and Thane getting into a highspeed car chase on the streets of LA (in a surprisingly high budget looking scene, at a point when the show had little funding). Finally, when Thomas arrives, he confronts Trager, Rembrandt and Cat, demanding to know what is going on.
Cat explains that, in her world, alien beings have enslaved the planet after a war not too dissimilar to our own universe's WW2, and while they lavish in luxury, humanity is reduced to a barren shell of its former glory, Cat was a female slave who, sick of being treated like scum by her captors, escaped with her boyfriend Rider, who Thomas later discovers is an alternate version of himself, Rider, however, sacrifices himself to save Cat, who then fled through a 'door' that led to our world.
After this explanation, Thane breaks into the facility, killing dozens of FBI agents, and nearly killing Trager and Rembrandt, before Thomas and Cat pull them both into a Doorway, leading them to be stranded in the middle of a field. With the help of a kind stranger named Jacob (played by Willie Nelson, of all people [11]) and his teenage granddaughter Ava (cameo appearance by Julia Stiles [12]), they learn that 20 years previous, a chemical compound that became released after a nuclear meltdown in the US destroyed all the world's gasoline, leading to a proto-19th century Industrial Revolution-esque world dominated by a strange mix of early 1980s culture and the horse and buggy. Thomas, Cat, Trager, Rembrandt, Ava, and Jacob then get stopped by a group of highwaymen, who demand all of their cargo, when Trager, in his usual attitude, tells them not so subtlety to shove it where the sun won't shine, a firefight ensues.
Afterward, Jacob is wounded, but alive, Ava is shaken, and the others are OK. Thomas and Rembrandt (who reveals he was a Marine medic in our universe) tend to Jacob's wounds, but not before an alternate mirror version of Trager appears to arrest the group for murder (man, this show REALLY loved using 'alternate mirror' versions of people, eh? Guess it saved on actors). When Jacob explains the situation, Alt-Trager clears them of charges but insists that they stay in the holding cell in town, telling them how unsafe the roads can be after dark.
With that, the group holed up in the sheriff's office, with Alt-Trager continuously asking the other version of himself questions as to WHY they look exactly alike. Trager snarks back a quippy line about 'asking the Dimension Hopper' and then points to Cat, while Thomas and Rembrandt bond over their shared childhood tragedies, with Rembrandt losing his mom at an early age, while Thomas lost his father [13]. Then, an explosion rocks the building and Thane appears, dressed as a bandit (an outfit he stole in an earlier scene after killing a group of them in a previous scene), having tracked the group to the office, and intends to kill everyone there to ensure the Dark Lord's mission is complete.
Ava and Jacob flee out the back, but not before wishing the group luck. Alt-Trager holds off Thane for the others to escape, sacrificing himself. Cat, having sensed a door within their cell, summons it and successfully escapes with Thomas and (our universe) Trager [14] as well as Rembrandt. As Jacob and Ava escape, the sheriff's office explodes, with Alt-Trager having used a grenade to blow up Thane and himself (something that is shown to have failed due to Thane still being alive after so, I guess it was for nothing?). And with that, the Pilot was over.
PFN executives responded fairly positively and slated the release for early '95. When they did, the show received praise from the audiences and critics alike, dazzled by the interesting concept and characters. Later seasons would expand on Cat and Thomas' relationship, Trager would go through a major arc from being a 'hardass cop down on his luck' to a 'loveable, intelligent and funny hardass cop who was down on his luck' the show would also explore the character of Rembrandt, who, despite being a cool, charming and likable FBI agent, faces discrimination in many of the alternate timelines (especially It Happened Here and Bring the Jubliee, along with several others). The show would also shine a light on the current socio-political climate through the writing, which admittedly, was the show's strongest feature. The fantastic litany of writers and guest directors (including Tim Burton no less! [15]) that would come on and help hold a mirror up to our world were amazing, with each episode saying either, 'See, look how much better things are here, let's try and do that!' or 'See! This would've been absolutely terrifying, let's NOT do this!'
The adventures of Thomas, Cat, Trager, and Rembrandt would become beloved by fans, with the exploits in universes that went from terrifyingly possible (It Happened Here [16] and Bring the Jubilee [17] come strongly to mind) to the weird and wacky (The President in Yellow [18], that was...an episode). All in all, fans of the show have clambered for a reboot, or at least some form of expansion in the Doorways universe (or should we say universes?
Not funny? ...Alright I'll stop now) and both the original showrunners as well as O'Connell himself seem interested, with all four having teased a reboot in the near future.
For now, however, we'll have to stick with the original Doorways, and the wacky exploits of a medical doctor, a dimension-hopping fugitive and two FBI agents who got picked up along for the ride.
[1] I had to make this joke, was too good of an opportunity to pass up.
[2] I'm unsure of how much Doorways was initially rejected, but since Martin IOTL pitched to quite a few studios before ABC accepted, I would assume the rejection letters took up some form of space in his mailbox.
[3] IOTL Sliders had a...rougher go with the producers, constant interference with the plots and writing, as well as airing the episodes out of order, lead to many cast members straight up leaving, leaving only Cleavant Derricks as the last remaining original cast member by the end of the series. Here, the producers give Martin, Tormé and Weiss the space they need, allowing the show to go into some uniquely wacky and dark (dark for PG anyway) places.
[4] Moss was in the original show, however, she was Laura, Thomas' girlfriend, instead of Cat, I decided that since butterflies are in effect, Anne Le Guernec may not be able to/isn't interested in the job, leaving Martin to combine (kind of) Cat and Laura.
[5] Since Sliders doesn't exist, and butterflies keep George Newbern from being on the show, O'Connell instead takes his place. Think of Thomas ITTL as a mix between OTL's Thomas on Doorways and Quinn from Sliders.
[6] As stated above, Laura and Cat will be combined to be the same person (kind of) and this helps develop the 'will they? won't they?' between Thomas and Cat.
[7] Honestly, I was unsure who else to cast in this role, and I'm unsure how to quite fit Lloyd in, since the Dark Lord isn't mentioned to have an actor at all, since Lloyd would still be a big star, even without BTTF cementing his fame as Doc Brown, so I decided, what the hell, why not keep him?
[8] Still plays the same role as in OTL.
[9] Who plays Doctor Roth in the original OTL pilot, and since random butterflies might keep Kurtwood Smith away from the show, the two characters are combined and Roth is scrapped entirely.
[10] Couldn't think of any other black actors that could perhaps be on the show at the time (Maybe Jamie Foxx?? Just wasn't sure), btw, if anyone has any other suggestions in terms of POC actors they would like to see for other projects, please lemme know and I would love to hear them!
[11] Hoyt Axton plays this role, except the character is named Jake instead, but butterflies might have changed Jacob's character, and also prevented Axton from playing the role, prompting Nelson (or perhaps another country star) to come on and play the role.
[12] I considered Barsi for the cameo role, however, seeing as, for one thing, she'd be busy with Burton. I also considered Scarlet Johansson, coming off of the TV Indiana Jones show fame, I instead chose Juila Stiles for the role, seeing as she was an up-and-coming actor in the 90s.
[13] Which would later come back in the Season 3 finale "Oh Mother of Mine, Oh Father of Mine" in which Thomas and Rembrandt are step-brothers by marriage in a world where their opposite parents (i.e. Thomas' mom instead of dad, Rembrandt's father instead of mother) died.
[14] IOTL, both Tragers die to save Cat and Thomas, sacrificing themselves both to ensure the pair escape on time, in this one, butterflies might have changed to have the writers have Trager's self-preservation kick in a little more (Which is English for the writers didn't want Max off the show).
[15] That episode being "The Fallout" in a world where the Cold War went hot, and America is a nuclear wasteland being rebuilt in the year 2295, and deals with the group testing their moral limits and seeing what they would do to survive.
[16] Ok, so, I'm gonna do and rundown of the episode as quick as I can, because I don't wanna write a bajillion words if it contradicts canon.
[17]
[18] Basically be 'Lovecraft as President' with a few other twists and turns as well.
So here's my work so far! Basically this is a first draft of sorts, just wanted to hear all of your opinions in terms of it's contribution
UPDATE: Second rough draft done! Added a POC character to the show, thanks to a suggestion from @Ogrebear, so thanks Ogre! Lemme know if you guys would like any other changes!
UPDATE 2: IT IS DONE! Wooo! Finally, apologizes about taking so long, my schedule has been wild and I just wanted to be sure that this would actually be done before I forgot about it entirely. Thanks so much for everyone's support on this, it's been a dream!
Post from The Doorway Hub Netsite, Posted March 17th, 2016
George R.R. Martin once said, "I want a story to take me to a place that I've never been to before and make it come vividly alive for me." That certainly is the case for us and other George R.R. Martin works, such as A Song Of Ice And Fire and the rest of the Game of Thrones book series. Doorways, however, was a show that, while beloved in its time, has sadly been forgotten about, however, garners a strong and proud cult following to this day. A unique blend of fantasy, sci-fi, steampunk and alternate history, Doorways was a rare gem that seemed to be lost in the even greater gems of the 1990s.
But what would happen if Doorways never came into existence? What if another show slid into it's place? [1] Would it be as successful as Doorways? Or would it be forgotten to time? This, for now, is a question left unanswered. But, now reader, let us Enter the Doorway!
The most epic sci-fi intro (OOC: Via Wikipedia)
Doorways was the brainchild of George R.R. Martin, who, fun fact, wanted to initially name the show Doors but feared people would be confused with the band The Doors, (the former Jim Morrison band that created the many classic rock songs your dad or grandpa insist is real music) and so scrapped the name to the easier to remember Doorways. Martin, by this point had also pitched the idea to at least a dozen studios and was tired of constant rejections [2]. However, a miracle seemed to happen.
According to Martin himself, the call came late one night, as he contemplated scrapping the show entirely, "I heard the ring from down the hall, and I picked up, wondering who was calling so late, and well...it was PFN, who loved the idea, and wanted to greenlight it with me." Martin accepted PFN's deal and began work on a pilot in earnest.
Alongside Martin, showrunners Tracy Tormé and Robert K. Weiss helped to create and shape what would become the Doorways fans knew and cherished. However, it was a rocky start. PFN, although supportive of the idea, was skeptical of Martin's ability to write for TV, especially with such an audacious and ambitious story. PFN wanted to maybe see if they could hold more sway over the show's direction, but Martin was insistent that he and his new team keep full creative control over the show, and PFN, though still skeptical, relented, and gave Martin the space he needed. [3]
Martin would later write the Pilot episode, entitled, simply, 'Doorways'. Unimaginative as a title it is, the episode itself is anything but, introducing the major players in such a unique way.
The show opens with Cat, played by Carrie-Anne Moss [4], a semi-feral woman who appears in the middle of a busy Los Angeles street, and after shooting a truck with a strange futuristic weapon, is injured by shrapnel and is sent to the hospital. Here, we are introduced to Dr. Thomas Mason (played by the great Jerry O'Connell [5]), who tends to Cat's wounds, discovering that not only he is a dead ringer for his dead girlfriend, who passed a year earlier [6], he also discovers several strange, un-Earthly items on her body, including a strange bracelet and the weapon from earlier. After the strange encounter, Thomas returns home, and, in a moment that used fairly decent SFX for TV, the Dark Lord (voiced by Christopher Lloyd [7], though the studio wanted James Earl Jones initially) appears before him, demanding to hand over the 'captive girl' otherwise, there will be grave consequences.
When Thomas refuses, stating he has 'no idea what he's talking about', The Dark Lord vows revenge and sends Thane (played by Robert Knepper [8]) to try and kill Thomas, and capture Cat, who has now been taken by the FBI under Special Agent Roth Trager (played by Max Grodénchik [9]) and Special Agent Benjamin Rembrandt (played by Montell Jordan [10]), both of whom attempt to discern who exactly Cat is. Meanwhile, Thomas flees for his life from Thane to the hospital, and when they both discover Cat missing, it becomes a race against time, with Thomas and Thane getting into a highspeed car chase on the streets of LA (in a surprisingly high budget looking scene, at a point when the show had little funding). Finally, when Thomas arrives, he confronts Trager, Rembrandt and Cat, demanding to know what is going on.
Cat explains that, in her world, alien beings have enslaved the planet after a war not too dissimilar to our own universe's WW2, and while they lavish in luxury, humanity is reduced to a barren shell of its former glory, Cat was a female slave who, sick of being treated like scum by her captors, escaped with her boyfriend Rider, who Thomas later discovers is an alternate version of himself, Rider, however, sacrifices himself to save Cat, who then fled through a 'door' that led to our world.
After this explanation, Thane breaks into the facility, killing dozens of FBI agents, and nearly killing Trager and Rembrandt, before Thomas and Cat pull them both into a Doorway, leading them to be stranded in the middle of a field. With the help of a kind stranger named Jacob (played by Willie Nelson, of all people [11]) and his teenage granddaughter Ava (cameo appearance by Julia Stiles [12]), they learn that 20 years previous, a chemical compound that became released after a nuclear meltdown in the US destroyed all the world's gasoline, leading to a proto-19th century Industrial Revolution-esque world dominated by a strange mix of early 1980s culture and the horse and buggy. Thomas, Cat, Trager, Rembrandt, Ava, and Jacob then get stopped by a group of highwaymen, who demand all of their cargo, when Trager, in his usual attitude, tells them not so subtlety to shove it where the sun won't shine, a firefight ensues.
Afterward, Jacob is wounded, but alive, Ava is shaken, and the others are OK. Thomas and Rembrandt (who reveals he was a Marine medic in our universe) tend to Jacob's wounds, but not before an alternate mirror version of Trager appears to arrest the group for murder (man, this show REALLY loved using 'alternate mirror' versions of people, eh? Guess it saved on actors). When Jacob explains the situation, Alt-Trager clears them of charges but insists that they stay in the holding cell in town, telling them how unsafe the roads can be after dark.
With that, the group holed up in the sheriff's office, with Alt-Trager continuously asking the other version of himself questions as to WHY they look exactly alike. Trager snarks back a quippy line about 'asking the Dimension Hopper' and then points to Cat, while Thomas and Rembrandt bond over their shared childhood tragedies, with Rembrandt losing his mom at an early age, while Thomas lost his father [13]. Then, an explosion rocks the building and Thane appears, dressed as a bandit (an outfit he stole in an earlier scene after killing a group of them in a previous scene), having tracked the group to the office, and intends to kill everyone there to ensure the Dark Lord's mission is complete.
Ava and Jacob flee out the back, but not before wishing the group luck. Alt-Trager holds off Thane for the others to escape, sacrificing himself. Cat, having sensed a door within their cell, summons it and successfully escapes with Thomas and (our universe) Trager [14] as well as Rembrandt. As Jacob and Ava escape, the sheriff's office explodes, with Alt-Trager having used a grenade to blow up Thane and himself (something that is shown to have failed due to Thane still being alive after so, I guess it was for nothing?). And with that, the Pilot was over.
PFN executives responded fairly positively and slated the release for early '95. When they did, the show received praise from the audiences and critics alike, dazzled by the interesting concept and characters. Later seasons would expand on Cat and Thomas' relationship, Trager would go through a major arc from being a 'hardass cop down on his luck' to a 'loveable, intelligent and funny hardass cop who was down on his luck' the show would also explore the character of Rembrandt, who, despite being a cool, charming and likable FBI agent, faces discrimination in many of the alternate timelines (especially It Happened Here and Bring the Jubliee, along with several others). The show would also shine a light on the current socio-political climate through the writing, which admittedly, was the show's strongest feature. The fantastic litany of writers and guest directors (including Tim Burton no less! [15]) that would come on and help hold a mirror up to our world were amazing, with each episode saying either, 'See, look how much better things are here, let's try and do that!' or 'See! This would've been absolutely terrifying, let's NOT do this!'
The adventures of Thomas, Cat, Trager, and Rembrandt would become beloved by fans, with the exploits in universes that went from terrifyingly possible (It Happened Here [16] and Bring the Jubilee [17] come strongly to mind) to the weird and wacky (The President in Yellow [18], that was...an episode). All in all, fans of the show have clambered for a reboot, or at least some form of expansion in the Doorways universe (or should we say universes?
Not funny? ...Alright I'll stop now) and both the original showrunners as well as O'Connell himself seem interested, with all four having teased a reboot in the near future.For now, however, we'll have to stick with the original Doorways, and the wacky exploits of a medical doctor, a dimension-hopping fugitive and two FBI agents who got picked up along for the ride.
---+---
[1] I had to make this joke, was too good of an opportunity to pass up.
[2] I'm unsure of how much Doorways was initially rejected, but since Martin IOTL pitched to quite a few studios before ABC accepted, I would assume the rejection letters took up some form of space in his mailbox.
[3] IOTL Sliders had a...rougher go with the producers, constant interference with the plots and writing, as well as airing the episodes out of order, lead to many cast members straight up leaving, leaving only Cleavant Derricks as the last remaining original cast member by the end of the series. Here, the producers give Martin, Tormé and Weiss the space they need, allowing the show to go into some uniquely wacky and dark (dark for PG anyway) places.
[4] Moss was in the original show, however, she was Laura, Thomas' girlfriend, instead of Cat, I decided that since butterflies are in effect, Anne Le Guernec may not be able to/isn't interested in the job, leaving Martin to combine (kind of) Cat and Laura.
[5] Since Sliders doesn't exist, and butterflies keep George Newbern from being on the show, O'Connell instead takes his place. Think of Thomas ITTL as a mix between OTL's Thomas on Doorways and Quinn from Sliders.
[6] As stated above, Laura and Cat will be combined to be the same person (kind of) and this helps develop the 'will they? won't they?' between Thomas and Cat.
[7] Honestly, I was unsure who else to cast in this role, and I'm unsure how to quite fit Lloyd in, since the Dark Lord isn't mentioned to have an actor at all, since Lloyd would still be a big star, even without BTTF cementing his fame as Doc Brown, so I decided, what the hell, why not keep him?
[8] Still plays the same role as in OTL.
[9] Who plays Doctor Roth in the original OTL pilot, and since random butterflies might keep Kurtwood Smith away from the show, the two characters are combined and Roth is scrapped entirely.
[10] Couldn't think of any other black actors that could perhaps be on the show at the time (Maybe Jamie Foxx?? Just wasn't sure), btw, if anyone has any other suggestions in terms of POC actors they would like to see for other projects, please lemme know and I would love to hear them!
[11] Hoyt Axton plays this role, except the character is named Jake instead, but butterflies might have changed Jacob's character, and also prevented Axton from playing the role, prompting Nelson (or perhaps another country star) to come on and play the role.
[12] I considered Barsi for the cameo role, however, seeing as, for one thing, she'd be busy with Burton. I also considered Scarlet Johansson, coming off of the TV Indiana Jones show fame, I instead chose Juila Stiles for the role, seeing as she was an up-and-coming actor in the 90s.
[13] Which would later come back in the Season 3 finale "Oh Mother of Mine, Oh Father of Mine" in which Thomas and Rembrandt are step-brothers by marriage in a world where their opposite parents (i.e. Thomas' mom instead of dad, Rembrandt's father instead of mother) died.
[14] IOTL, both Tragers die to save Cat and Thomas, sacrificing themselves both to ensure the pair escape on time, in this one, butterflies might have changed to have the writers have Trager's self-preservation kick in a little more (Which is English for the writers didn't want Max off the show).
[15] That episode being "The Fallout" in a world where the Cold War went hot, and America is a nuclear wasteland being rebuilt in the year 2295, and deals with the group testing their moral limits and seeing what they would do to survive.
[16] Ok, so, I'm gonna do and rundown of the episode as quick as I can, because I don't wanna write a bajillion words if it contradicts canon.
When Thomas, Cat, Trager and Rembrandt teleport through a doorway, they find themselves behind a house, and when they exit the property, they find themselves in an idyllic 1950s-style neighbourhood. By asking a neighbour, they discover they're still in L.A. (which has been renamed New Jefferson) and Trager makes a quip about it being cleaner than our Los Angeles. With that, the characters head into the city and find...some odd things. A fascistic-style US flag flies over every building, racist propaganda is on every corner, and a march is conducted by the Silver Legion, a proto-Nazi organization that, in our universe, floundered during the Second World War.
When Thomas asks a passerby what's going on, they smile and say 'Victory Day parade' and walk away, but not before saying 'Hail Wulthrop!' and saluting a Roman salute (the salute Germans used in WW2). Thomas, Cat and Trager, in shock, begin trying to find out what is going on and what led this America down the path of fascism. Rembrandt, being a black man, gets some odd looks and evil eyes shot his way throughout, before Rembrandt accidentally bumps into a young girl, and the father accuses Rembrandt of trying to kidnap her. Thomas, Cat and Trager grab Rembrandt and flee down an alley, away from the crowd.
During the scuffle, they happened, by chance, to stumble into a suspect-looking young man, who, upon some pressure from Trager and Rembrandt, quietly reveals he is a member of the Resistance and asks the group to follow him, since, according to him, 'Most people don't hang out with blacks', so therefore they can't really be supporters of the state. The boy leads them down an alley to a bookshop, a headquarters of a Resistance leader only known as 'The Madame', before the young man leaves to get her, however, he hands the group a history textbook (since they seem confused as to what is going on), and leaves them to read it.
In 1928, FDR, then Governor of New York, was hit by a car while heading into the New York State Building and died in hospital. The death of FDR left a vacuum in the Democratic Party in the '32 election, which allowed the rise of Louisiana governor and populist Huey Long. When Long beats Hoover (although it's implied to be less of a landslide than it was for FDR OTL), he begins implementing his Share Our Wealth program, however, a young communist (implied to be OTL's Communist Party of America leader Gus Hall), angered by Long's avowed anti-Bolshevism and isolationism, kills Long by shooting him in D.C. while he gives a stump speech for re-election in 1936.
The killing causes a widespread Red Scare, so bad that William Borah, former Vice President turned President suspends habius corpus on all 'suspected enemies' of the state, including Communists, civil rights activists, and even some chapters of the NAACP. This allows a young, dissatisfied WW1 fighter pilot named Theodore 'Ted' Wulthrop to ascend. Originally a Mississippi mayor, Wulthrop is an avowed racist, one so bad even the Southern Democrats refused to take him seriously. However, after the plight that America has gone through, Americans are VERY willing to take him seriously. Initially, Wulthrop attempts to coup Borah's government but fails, nearly being killed in the process, and exiled to Mexico, Wulthrop and his party begin another plot, to try and convince one of the two parties to take them seriously.
Wulthrop, again, initially fails but finds success in starting his own political party, and with funding from the likes of Henry Ford and Charles Lindbergh, he becomes President in 1940, vowing to keep America 'safe from Judeo-Bolshevism'. Later, a purge, known as 'The Night of 1000 Bayonets' takes place, killing off most undesirables, including black people, Jewish people, and socialists, as well as business leaders who refused to aid the Silver Legion.
Ever since Wulthrop has led America in a purely totalitarian fascistic state, meanwhile, Germany has become a democratic superpower, much like the US in our universe.
When the group meets 'The Madame', they find she is none other than a double of Cat, and her name is Lucy. Lucy became a Resistance leader after her husband, a leading US commander, was killed by the government for aiding Jewish children fleeing violence. The crime was covered up and a story of him killing some 'Jewish thugs' took its place. Angered and bitter by the death of her husband, she vowed to fight Wulthrop's regime however she could.
After the group discovers Lucy's identity, they want to help however they can, explaining they are travellers from another dimension. The Resistance, though skeptical at first, only believes them when they detail their world, in which the US is a beacon of democracy (at least in comparison to this). The Resistance then let the group in on a plan to destroy a major rail line, as well as exposing the state's crime on the annual World's Fair, which is set to take place in L.A. in a few days.
With this, the group set off to begin work on sabotaging the World's Fair for the fascists. Thomas, Rembrandt and Cat become medics for the Resistance, aiding wounded members and helping those who they can, Trager, meanwhile, has his own subplot of discovering his double is a collaborator and the moral implications of what the alternate version of himself does. Trager begins to stalk the other version of himself, finding he has a far better life than back on Earth Prime (which is the name of our universe in the show), where, in the fascist world, Trager has a happy family life with a loving wife and son (played by Sabrina Lloyd* and Nick Stahl respectively**), meanwhile, back in our universe, Trager was a drunkard cop who barely escaped being 'forcefully retired' a few times, and where his wife and son hate his guts for being an awful father. Trager, in a sort of dark twist, considers staying in this world, accepting living under a totalitarian state so long as he continues to be loved by his family, however, after convincing by Thomas, he doesn't go through with it, keeping his morality intact.
Meanwhile, Thomas and Cat are able to disguise themselves as wealthy donors of the Wulthrop government at the World's Fair, but also discover that, somehow, Thane has been able to track them to the Fair. Scared, Cat and Thomas are able to pull aside the British and German delegates and quickly convince them to aid them in their plan. The Germans and British agree earnestly, a chance to undermine both a totalitarian power AND a rival doesn't come often, so they plan to expose their crimes as Wulthorp speaks to the different international delegates. Wulthrop (played by Donald Pleasence in one of his last roles***) begins to speak about the America he has built, and how it is now a stable and safe place, before images of crimes evidence of (heavily implied, so as not to push the PG rating TOO hard) war crimes and genocide. Wulthorp, terrified, insists that 'it's lies! All of it!'
Wulthorp is booed and thrown off stage, before his personal guard, lead, shockingly by Thane, who opens fire on Thomas and Cat as they flee the area, heading back to the Resistance headquarters to get Trager and get the hell outta dodge. However, Thane beats them to the punch and holds a gun to Trager's head, who insists, in a rather emotional and well done scene, that he isn't 'worth it' and that they should go without him.
Thomas and Cat refuse, and a pitched battle ensues. Trager escapes from Thane's grasp at the last second, and the four flees as the Resistance routs the personal force of the dictator that has, for so long, crushed them under a boot.
When Thomas asks a passerby what's going on, they smile and say 'Victory Day parade' and walk away, but not before saying 'Hail Wulthrop!' and saluting a Roman salute (the salute Germans used in WW2). Thomas, Cat and Trager, in shock, begin trying to find out what is going on and what led this America down the path of fascism. Rembrandt, being a black man, gets some odd looks and evil eyes shot his way throughout, before Rembrandt accidentally bumps into a young girl, and the father accuses Rembrandt of trying to kidnap her. Thomas, Cat and Trager grab Rembrandt and flee down an alley, away from the crowd.
During the scuffle, they happened, by chance, to stumble into a suspect-looking young man, who, upon some pressure from Trager and Rembrandt, quietly reveals he is a member of the Resistance and asks the group to follow him, since, according to him, 'Most people don't hang out with blacks', so therefore they can't really be supporters of the state. The boy leads them down an alley to a bookshop, a headquarters of a Resistance leader only known as 'The Madame', before the young man leaves to get her, however, he hands the group a history textbook (since they seem confused as to what is going on), and leaves them to read it.
In 1928, FDR, then Governor of New York, was hit by a car while heading into the New York State Building and died in hospital. The death of FDR left a vacuum in the Democratic Party in the '32 election, which allowed the rise of Louisiana governor and populist Huey Long. When Long beats Hoover (although it's implied to be less of a landslide than it was for FDR OTL), he begins implementing his Share Our Wealth program, however, a young communist (implied to be OTL's Communist Party of America leader Gus Hall), angered by Long's avowed anti-Bolshevism and isolationism, kills Long by shooting him in D.C. while he gives a stump speech for re-election in 1936.
The killing causes a widespread Red Scare, so bad that William Borah, former Vice President turned President suspends habius corpus on all 'suspected enemies' of the state, including Communists, civil rights activists, and even some chapters of the NAACP. This allows a young, dissatisfied WW1 fighter pilot named Theodore 'Ted' Wulthrop to ascend. Originally a Mississippi mayor, Wulthrop is an avowed racist, one so bad even the Southern Democrats refused to take him seriously. However, after the plight that America has gone through, Americans are VERY willing to take him seriously. Initially, Wulthrop attempts to coup Borah's government but fails, nearly being killed in the process, and exiled to Mexico, Wulthrop and his party begin another plot, to try and convince one of the two parties to take them seriously.
Wulthrop, again, initially fails but finds success in starting his own political party, and with funding from the likes of Henry Ford and Charles Lindbergh, he becomes President in 1940, vowing to keep America 'safe from Judeo-Bolshevism'. Later, a purge, known as 'The Night of 1000 Bayonets' takes place, killing off most undesirables, including black people, Jewish people, and socialists, as well as business leaders who refused to aid the Silver Legion.
Ever since Wulthrop has led America in a purely totalitarian fascistic state, meanwhile, Germany has become a democratic superpower, much like the US in our universe.
When the group meets 'The Madame', they find she is none other than a double of Cat, and her name is Lucy. Lucy became a Resistance leader after her husband, a leading US commander, was killed by the government for aiding Jewish children fleeing violence. The crime was covered up and a story of him killing some 'Jewish thugs' took its place. Angered and bitter by the death of her husband, she vowed to fight Wulthrop's regime however she could.
After the group discovers Lucy's identity, they want to help however they can, explaining they are travellers from another dimension. The Resistance, though skeptical at first, only believes them when they detail their world, in which the US is a beacon of democracy (at least in comparison to this). The Resistance then let the group in on a plan to destroy a major rail line, as well as exposing the state's crime on the annual World's Fair, which is set to take place in L.A. in a few days.
With this, the group set off to begin work on sabotaging the World's Fair for the fascists. Thomas, Rembrandt and Cat become medics for the Resistance, aiding wounded members and helping those who they can, Trager, meanwhile, has his own subplot of discovering his double is a collaborator and the moral implications of what the alternate version of himself does. Trager begins to stalk the other version of himself, finding he has a far better life than back on Earth Prime (which is the name of our universe in the show), where, in the fascist world, Trager has a happy family life with a loving wife and son (played by Sabrina Lloyd* and Nick Stahl respectively**), meanwhile, back in our universe, Trager was a drunkard cop who barely escaped being 'forcefully retired' a few times, and where his wife and son hate his guts for being an awful father. Trager, in a sort of dark twist, considers staying in this world, accepting living under a totalitarian state so long as he continues to be loved by his family, however, after convincing by Thomas, he doesn't go through with it, keeping his morality intact.
Meanwhile, Thomas and Cat are able to disguise themselves as wealthy donors of the Wulthrop government at the World's Fair, but also discover that, somehow, Thane has been able to track them to the Fair. Scared, Cat and Thomas are able to pull aside the British and German delegates and quickly convince them to aid them in their plan. The Germans and British agree earnestly, a chance to undermine both a totalitarian power AND a rival doesn't come often, so they plan to expose their crimes as Wulthorp speaks to the different international delegates. Wulthrop (played by Donald Pleasence in one of his last roles***) begins to speak about the America he has built, and how it is now a stable and safe place, before images of crimes evidence of (heavily implied, so as not to push the PG rating TOO hard) war crimes and genocide. Wulthorp, terrified, insists that 'it's lies! All of it!'
Wulthorp is booed and thrown off stage, before his personal guard, lead, shockingly by Thane, who opens fire on Thomas and Cat as they flee the area, heading back to the Resistance headquarters to get Trager and get the hell outta dodge. However, Thane beats them to the punch and holds a gun to Trager's head, who insists, in a rather emotional and well done scene, that he isn't 'worth it' and that they should go without him.
Thomas and Cat refuse, and a pitched battle ensues. Trager escapes from Thane's grasp at the last second, and the four flees as the Resistance routs the personal force of the dictator that has, for so long, crushed them under a boot.
[17]
The group, after escaping another chaotic situation in another world, arrives at a simple farm, located deep in the back woods of a forest that stretches for miles. The group is then taken in by a kindly group of strangers, who identify themselves as The Haggershaven Society, a reclusive group of intellectuals living in rural Pennsylvania in a world where the Confederates won the Civil War, becoming a superpower in the process. When they bring the group in, they explain the history of their community (and, in turn, of their alternate world).
The group discovers according to the Haggershaven Society members, that in the wake of Robert E. Lee's great victory at the Battle of Gettysburg and subsequent capture of Philadelphia, the United States was forced to recognize Confederate independence with the Treaty of Reading on July 4, 1864, which became known as Southron Independence Day. Lee succeeded Jefferson Davis to become the second Confederate President in 1865 (IOTL, the Confederate Constitution set the end of Davis's term in early 1868). Although Lee tried to establish a benevolent national policy and was able to free the slaves*, his anti-imperialistic desires were thwarted by a Congress with increasingly imperialistic ambitions, which sent forces to invade Mexico and expanded southward in Latin America. The Confederacy thrived as cities like Washington-Baltimore (merged from those two cities plus Alexandria) and Leesburg (formerly Mexico City) became renowned international centers of culture and learning. The Confederacy stood as one of the world's two superpowers following the German Union's decisive victory in the Emperors' War (1914–1916) in Europe (analogous to OTL's World War I). The German Union (a merger of the German and Austro-Hungarian empires) formed an alliance with a rejuvenated Spanish Empire. To maintain the balance of power, the Confederacy allied with the British Empire. The two powers are now locked in a stalemate of Cold War with one another, with many fearful of another large war.
Rembrandt is warned when they arrive that many Northerners blame Black people, as well as the Abolitionists, for their defeat in the war, and they ominously say "Be sure to cover your neck, you don't know who's gonna fly off the handle." Rembrandt and Trager insist that they find a way to go home, leaving this universe to its inevitable fate (that being nuclear war most likely), that they cannot change what's to come and if they try, they could make things FAR worse. Thomas and Cat, however, befriend a former bookkeeper named Hodgins "Hodge" McCormick (Guy Pearce, right off his success of The Adventures of Priscilla, Queen of the Desert), a man who claims to have blueprints for an 'in the works' time machine to view the Battle of Gettysburg from a distance, and see what happened on the day the Confederates won so that he can write a historical novel on it for future generations to study. Thomas and Cat believe that if they influence the battle to make the rebels lose with (or without) Hodge's help, the timeline will be, if not our own, at least close enough to be better than this world.
Hodge then later explains the time machine to the others, stating that it would be two ways, able to travel back and forth freely so that he can view the battle and leave whenever he feels satisfied with what he's witnessed. However, it would have to be powered by a far greater external source than the steam power they have in this world. Trager then comes up with the idea of using solar power to power the time machine (it being implied that most commons forms of power IOTL are far less common in this world than our own), which partially works, and, combined with reworking their own device used to travel to the other universes, they begin working on the device. The group bonds between one another, and even Hodge's bigotry, which, while he was FAR more progressive than most Northerners, even he has his biases (with one famous moment asking Rembrandt if his grandfather was a 'good slave'), and with Rembrandt's friendship, he begins to change himself for the better.
Hodge, Cat, Thomas and Rembrandt (and a reluctant Trager) all then finish the last of the machine. They successfully travel back to Gettysburg, able to find a vantage point and camp out near the town. However, as they set up, they come across a Confederate cavalry unit, the unit that Hodge points out changed the tide of battle in their world. The unit, seeing this encampment of weirdly diverse 'Yankees', they decide that they must be spies (and Rembrandt an escaped slave), and take them back to General Lee, so that they can then be shipped to Andersonville, the infamous Confederate POW camp.
Trager, Cat and Rembrandt escape the clutches of the Confederates, which causes them to search for the captives in the woods nearby, instead of heading into battle, Hodge warns Thomas that this could have disastrous consequences for his timeline, ('If the Rebels lose, the Confederacy might not win the war!') and practically orders the unit to just leave them be. This upsets the commander, who, jumping off his horse, threatens to kill Hodge then and there.
However, at the last second, a gunshot rings out, and a group of Union scouts (numbering 4 total), rout the small Confederate cavalry unit right then and there. The group of scouts then ask if Hodge and Thomas are alright, and ask what the hell they're doing here. Thomas, on the spot, uses his experience as a doctor to say that he was a travelling medicine seller who was robbed by 'bummers' some miles back, and asks if the unit to direct him and his brother (Hodge) home.
The unit agrees, and they eventually find Trager, Rembrandt and Cat at the Union camp, and finally, after some deliberation, they all agree to go back to Hodge's time before leaving the universe entirely. So one night, Hodge fixes up the machine and successfully returns back to Haggershaven.
But when they return, they find that the American flag at the farm has 55 stars on it, far more than it did when Hodge left and when they investigate, they find that Hodge, in THIS double alternate timeline, is married and has children. Hodge is, quite frankly, shocked and worries that he altered the timeline for ill and that his actions forever changed the world. The group reassure him that America cannot be so bad in this world, and encourage Hodge to leave and make the most of his new lease on life.
He agrees, shakes their hands, and heads off down the road, as Cat opens a new portal, to another adventure...
* IRL, this would be near impossible, as most would have fought tooth and nail to keep their "property", but since it was 90s TV, we'll let it slide.
The group discovers according to the Haggershaven Society members, that in the wake of Robert E. Lee's great victory at the Battle of Gettysburg and subsequent capture of Philadelphia, the United States was forced to recognize Confederate independence with the Treaty of Reading on July 4, 1864, which became known as Southron Independence Day. Lee succeeded Jefferson Davis to become the second Confederate President in 1865 (IOTL, the Confederate Constitution set the end of Davis's term in early 1868). Although Lee tried to establish a benevolent national policy and was able to free the slaves*, his anti-imperialistic desires were thwarted by a Congress with increasingly imperialistic ambitions, which sent forces to invade Mexico and expanded southward in Latin America. The Confederacy thrived as cities like Washington-Baltimore (merged from those two cities plus Alexandria) and Leesburg (formerly Mexico City) became renowned international centers of culture and learning. The Confederacy stood as one of the world's two superpowers following the German Union's decisive victory in the Emperors' War (1914–1916) in Europe (analogous to OTL's World War I). The German Union (a merger of the German and Austro-Hungarian empires) formed an alliance with a rejuvenated Spanish Empire. To maintain the balance of power, the Confederacy allied with the British Empire. The two powers are now locked in a stalemate of Cold War with one another, with many fearful of another large war.
Rembrandt is warned when they arrive that many Northerners blame Black people, as well as the Abolitionists, for their defeat in the war, and they ominously say "Be sure to cover your neck, you don't know who's gonna fly off the handle." Rembrandt and Trager insist that they find a way to go home, leaving this universe to its inevitable fate (that being nuclear war most likely), that they cannot change what's to come and if they try, they could make things FAR worse. Thomas and Cat, however, befriend a former bookkeeper named Hodgins "Hodge" McCormick (Guy Pearce, right off his success of The Adventures of Priscilla, Queen of the Desert), a man who claims to have blueprints for an 'in the works' time machine to view the Battle of Gettysburg from a distance, and see what happened on the day the Confederates won so that he can write a historical novel on it for future generations to study. Thomas and Cat believe that if they influence the battle to make the rebels lose with (or without) Hodge's help, the timeline will be, if not our own, at least close enough to be better than this world.
Hodge then later explains the time machine to the others, stating that it would be two ways, able to travel back and forth freely so that he can view the battle and leave whenever he feels satisfied with what he's witnessed. However, it would have to be powered by a far greater external source than the steam power they have in this world. Trager then comes up with the idea of using solar power to power the time machine (it being implied that most commons forms of power IOTL are far less common in this world than our own), which partially works, and, combined with reworking their own device used to travel to the other universes, they begin working on the device. The group bonds between one another, and even Hodge's bigotry, which, while he was FAR more progressive than most Northerners, even he has his biases (with one famous moment asking Rembrandt if his grandfather was a 'good slave'), and with Rembrandt's friendship, he begins to change himself for the better.
Hodge, Cat, Thomas and Rembrandt (and a reluctant Trager) all then finish the last of the machine. They successfully travel back to Gettysburg, able to find a vantage point and camp out near the town. However, as they set up, they come across a Confederate cavalry unit, the unit that Hodge points out changed the tide of battle in their world. The unit, seeing this encampment of weirdly diverse 'Yankees', they decide that they must be spies (and Rembrandt an escaped slave), and take them back to General Lee, so that they can then be shipped to Andersonville, the infamous Confederate POW camp.
Trager, Cat and Rembrandt escape the clutches of the Confederates, which causes them to search for the captives in the woods nearby, instead of heading into battle, Hodge warns Thomas that this could have disastrous consequences for his timeline, ('If the Rebels lose, the Confederacy might not win the war!') and practically orders the unit to just leave them be. This upsets the commander, who, jumping off his horse, threatens to kill Hodge then and there.
However, at the last second, a gunshot rings out, and a group of Union scouts (numbering 4 total), rout the small Confederate cavalry unit right then and there. The group of scouts then ask if Hodge and Thomas are alright, and ask what the hell they're doing here. Thomas, on the spot, uses his experience as a doctor to say that he was a travelling medicine seller who was robbed by 'bummers' some miles back, and asks if the unit to direct him and his brother (Hodge) home.
The unit agrees, and they eventually find Trager, Rembrandt and Cat at the Union camp, and finally, after some deliberation, they all agree to go back to Hodge's time before leaving the universe entirely. So one night, Hodge fixes up the machine and successfully returns back to Haggershaven.
But when they return, they find that the American flag at the farm has 55 stars on it, far more than it did when Hodge left and when they investigate, they find that Hodge, in THIS double alternate timeline, is married and has children. Hodge is, quite frankly, shocked and worries that he altered the timeline for ill and that his actions forever changed the world. The group reassure him that America cannot be so bad in this world, and encourage Hodge to leave and make the most of his new lease on life.
He agrees, shakes their hands, and heads off down the road, as Cat opens a new portal, to another adventure...
* IRL, this would be near impossible, as most would have fought tooth and nail to keep their "property", but since it was 90s TV, we'll let it slide.
[18] Basically be 'Lovecraft as President' with a few other twists and turns as well.
So here's my work so far! Basically this is a first draft of sorts, just wanted to hear all of your opinions in terms of it's contribution
UPDATE: Second rough draft done! Added a POC character to the show, thanks to a suggestion from @Ogrebear, so thanks Ogre! Lemme know if you guys would like any other changes!
UPDATE 2: IT IS DONE! Wooo! Finally, apologizes about taking so long, my schedule has been wild and I just wanted to be sure that this would actually be done before I forgot about it entirely. Thanks so much for everyone's support on this, it's been a dream!
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@Plateosaurus -- the Peach Grove post has a fifth footnote about "Gorgons", but there's only four links to footnotes in the main text. There's no reference in the post itself to "Gorgons".
Nice work on an AltSlider/Doorways there @ThatAutisticGuy
Please italic your show and episode names- it does make it easier to read.
Do like the premise of this, just like I like Sliders, Quantum Leap, Sliding Doors, and other shows with a similar idea. I could see ITTL me watching this.
Shame Doorways could not get a non-white main cast member in, but then 90's TV often didn't have someone. .
Please italic your show and episode names- it does make it easier to read.
Do like the premise of this, just like I like Sliders, Quantum Leap, Sliding Doors, and other shows with a similar idea. I could see ITTL me watching this.
Shame Doorways could not get a non-white main cast member in, but then 90's TV often didn't have someone. .
They'd probably lose since even if Medusa is canon ITTL, the source material is obviously public domain. It's not worth trying to fight over, especially if Columbia's Gorgons (whether it's a movie or a theme park ride) comes out before Medusa.
Well I can't reveal anything, but its not THE Poseidon it refers to.
Hmm, this is a first draft, so we COULD add in a POC character if that could work, just honestly never considered it.
Musin' on Lupin
Andrew Gregson, Animation Nation.com, 2013.
It begins with a strike.
More specifically, the strikes that crippled network television for a period between 1982 and 1983. [1] Much has been written about their effects in that department but one thing that tends to get overlooked is the way it inspired a small but vital strike in Japan.
It achieved nothing in the grand run of things, it was quashed easily if one is to compare it to others, but TMS was briefly taken out of commission when a group of animators inspired by the American strikes launched their own. [2] Nothing would change save for the application of a fresh coat of paint over the old flaws but one production was set back by quite a bit. The third Lupin series had been in the planning stages, now with director Yuzo Aoki moving on to new projects, it was scrapped and left on the side while the company focused elsewhere. [3]
Fast forward to 1984, and the negotiations between Mike Young of Siriol and TMS for the rights to Sherlock Hound. Young was shown subtitled versions of the program, and was impressed. Asking if they had anything else beyond what they had already discussed, he was shown to a viewing room and waited upon hand and foot as five episodes were prepared. One was the original Lupin pilot from 1969, two were from the first season (Green Jacket) and two from the second (Red Jacket). He was impressed by how much he was able to get out of them even without the subtitles. He thought that while they were different than his usual fare, there was a market for it. [4]
He would revisit the subject when work began on Sherlock Hound 2. Soon, he was sitting down with his lawyers to discuss with TMS and Toei about licensing Lupin in England. A fourth party would have to be involved, namely the estate of Maurice LeBlanc who had created the original Lupin in 1905. The estate had never been consulted on the character’s creation and so a complicated back and forth was underway. At last, deals were struck and Lupin could keep his name. [5] But only if there was a bit before the action began that stated in legalese that Lupin was based on a character created by LeBlanc. Complicated to do for all one hundred and seventy-eight episodes, plus the two films made up until that point AND the pilot. But it was agreed upon. Luckily for all concerned, the copyright would run out later on down the line and these cumbersome legal disclaimers could be removed.
So much for getting it. Now that he had it, what was he going to do? He could have just stuck it all on videos and shoved it onto shelves, getting official money that before had been going to anime pirates or bootleggers selling VHS copies. But Young had been making friends with Superted, and so he contacted a couple of them to see what could be done with the haul. [6] They found that there were problems with both batches, not fatal ones but ones to work with. Part I suffered from a wild swing in tone around about the halfway point of the show, due to the taking over of Miyazaki and Takahata from the original director. Due to this, the third episode of that series was woefully animated. Part II had similar jumps in quality of animation but a steady tone throughout. However, given that there were one hundred and fifty five episodes amongst them, aired practically weekly over the course of two years, the plots tended to go insane every once in a while. Young rolled his sleeves up and got to work, gathering together as many people as he could. Translators, people who had lived in Japan, fans of anime and of Lupin specifically. To test them, he asked them to handle the original pilot movie first. The instructions were simple in theory: keep the original idea of the dialogue intact but make sure it works for our audience. [7]
When this was done, now it had to be matched to what was on the screens. Paid a good amount of money for three afternoons worth of time, Derek Griffiths and Sean Barrett were brought in to preform every role in the pilot. They didn’t have to be exactly within the movements of the characters mouths, but close enough would do. When this was done, the pilot was shipped off to ITV to test it with the words: We have more of this waiting for you. ITV loved it and responded that they’d like to see more.
Young now turned back to the team and hashed out an agreement of the fate of the remaining Lupin material. The Mystery of Mamo, the first Lupin movie, could serve as a perfect introduction to the bizarre world of Lupin. It would be paired up with Red Jacket to air upon TV. The Castle of Cagliostro was agreed by all concerned as something that belonged on the big screen, and was kept back until they could establish an audience for the show. Green Jacket would air on VHS, dubbed and used to entreat fans interested in how the gang all met up for the first time. [8]
The voice cast would consist of a mixture of regular Siriol players and newcomers. Griffiths and Barrett would return, cast as Lupin and Jigen, while their vocal chords would be spared the stress of having to voice every other character. Togo Igawa would take up the role of Goemon [9], while Fujiko was played by Nicola Bryant. And of course, Inspector Zenigata was played with the powerful voice of Brian Blessed, often barely being able to restrain himself from cursing up a storm, with a few lines left in when the mood suited it. For the most part, whenever recording sessions for other shows would come up, actors from there would be drafted in to play various characters of note.
The show premiered in 1986, with most of Part II’s first year already having been completed and work still continuing on the rest. It is said that the dubbing of this was so intensive that Young had to turn down an offer to pick up the Japanese-French series Mysterious Cities of Gold for fear that it might actually kill the dubbing team to add a fifth series to be translated. [10] (Fans of the show would have no reason to fear, with the success of the show in other foreign climates, two more series would be greenlit and would enter production in 1988. By the time of 1994, with the fourth and final series in production, Siriol would be able to bring all four over to the UK).
It premiered in a timeslot that bridged the gap between the pre and post watershed programming. It’s fun action, a healthy mix of raunchy and urbane humor, the performances of all the cast members and the fun soundtrack made in a decent hit. The Green Jacket VHS’s would sell well, though not as well as those that belonged to the Red Jacket era. Thus was Miyazaki’s Lupin established over Monkey Punch’s in the same vein that Fleming’s Bond was eclipsed by the Bond of EON. Some episodes had to be edited down or removed completely, though strangely the infamous Hitler episode was not one of them, [11] but for the most part all the episodes were aired in batches from 1986 to 1990. After a one-year break meant to give the dubbing crews a chance to breathe and work at a slower pace, the Castle of Cagliostro was finished and readied for release to cinemas in early 1992. It’s status as a genuine classic having grown over the years since it’s lackluster debut in Japan meant that a lot of audiences would go see it through word of mouth, and it’s status as a Lupin film you could watch with your kids meant that even more people went to see it. Lupin had gained a younger following despite the later airing time and many were happy that they could see one in the cinema without having to sneak around their parents. It’s status as a big deal had also brought actors Colin Baker and Jooly Richardson in to play the Count of Cagliostro and Princess Clarisse respectively. It was a steady profit turner, not one to set records but one that was consistently fighting throughout it’s run. [12]
It would be another four years before Lupin and company would return anywhere. It was during this time that the dubbers would unionize and official reconstruction of the translation department of Siriol would be undertaken. By the time Young was ready to renegotiate with TMS and Toei, he was aware of what it was he was doing and managed to get not only the Gold Jacket series (Part III) [13] and the two movies made afterwards (1992’s Last Stand of Lady Liberty and 1995’s Farewell to Nostradamus) [14] but also made an offer for a partnership on a fifth film. This one would be set in the United Kingdom and would be entitled ‘Lupin III: No Honour Amongst Thieves’. This would lead into the first Lupin series specifically created for the UK market. The deal was agreed and serious work on said movie began in 1998. The series and other movies would air on TV throughout 1997 to 1999 just in time for the much publicized Lupin Goes to the UK movie in 2000.
Following the success of that movie (See the sidebar for our breakdown of it) [15] for the first time Lupin would premiere it's new show on the UK first. A certain level of freedom was given to the actors in Part IV, as the newly blue-jacketed Lupin leads his gang on a wild chase across country after country, following in the footsteps of Phineas Fogg in attempting to make it around the world in eighty days without being able to enter an airport. Along the way they discovered a series of treasures that hinted at a grand conspiracy which led to them doing battle with the famed Captain Nemo (Alexander Siddig) in the finale. Japan had a little bit of a mixed reaction to it, but it was still a great money earner and the UK ate it up. [16]
There would be a longer break this time, until the Dawn of Lupin Quartet in 2012. [17] These attempted to go back to Monkey Punch's original manga in terms of violence and moral ambiguity, and though the rape as comedy gags were cut completely it was certainly the most sexual content the franchise had seen. The black-jacketed Lupin was a clear sign, and they would premiere in the UK as late night specials, far out of sight of any kids. Interestingly, these have received far more pushback in the UK due to the discomfort many felt at the characters returning to their darker roots. Even those who liked them suggested that it showed why Miyazaki's changes had kept the series going long after it might have run out of steam. [18]
The news of a new series in 2015, Lupin Takes the Fifth which is set to be the thief's first full-season stay in America, has received much praise for it's trailer and rendition of the classic theme. Though much has been said about the new pink jacket that Lupin is wearing, it's a nice tribute to where the franchise might have gone if things had not broken down the way they were. And with rumours that this might be the first multi-season series since the Red Jacket era, [19] it appears we'll have a long time to get used to it. While three out of the five original cast members are leaving in Japan [20], there seems to be no hurry for any of our English dubbed friends to be taking their last bows. Even as Derek Griffiths says goodbye to Superted, he admits that he's still having the time of his life with the thief. As indeed are we all.
Long may Lupin reign supreme!
[1] As discussed in the main timeline post!
[2] I admit that this is perhaps me pushing the limit a little on the likelihood of such things. But such waves can happen, they can spread to other parts of the world. In this case, given that Japan's infamous work schedule for animators is so culturally engrained there are fewer people to go against the grain.
[3] Here's where the big change comes in. Without a Pink Jacket series, Lupin does not enter a wildly recognized doldrum era for the franchise. The push-to-the-limits looseness of the animation style and a heavy focus upon comedy over action will in OTL go down badly with the fanbase. The one movie produced, Legend of the Gold of Babylon, will also underperform badly at the box office. This in turn will also lead to the first OVA for the franchise and a phenomenal miscalculation by the higher ups that leads to the one-time only mass recasting of the entire Lupin voice cast. It'll be prettily animated and all that, but fans will react very nastily to it. In the process, the relationship between Monkey Punch and Lupin's seiyuu Yasuo Yamada will be strained out of a mistaken belief that the author was dissatisfied with his performance (He wasn't, he just was a little too neutral on the matter) and by the time Yamada passes away in 1995 both men will be somewhat estranged form each other. The franchise thereafter enters a series of specials that range from very good to mediocre and a couple of theatrical movies of similar quality but none of which, it must be stated, sets the world on fire. It's only recently that the franchise has really re-entered as a viable contender as opposed to a legacy franchise. And thanks to this, the series that starts the decline is a no-go.
[4] Young is idealistic but he is not stupid. Much like Henson disliked Transformers but nonetheless recognized that there was a market for it, Lupin is not his cup of tea and yet it is exactly the kind of thing that can sell in eighties Britain.
[5] There will, therefore, be no 'Wolf' renaming as per the original Streamline dubs or 'Rupan' as in the AnimEigo dub. There will however be 'Cliff', as Cliff-Hanger will still use clips from the movies to wrap their game around.
[6] This incidentally is how the original Superted got several UK celebrities to play the roles, for Young was a friend of Victor Spinetti who had various show business contacts throughout the country.
[7] The result will be somewhere along the lines of the more restrained episodes of OTL's Geneon Dub, sans over the top cultural references.
[8] Similar to OTL Tugs, some may air on network TV at some point but it's all about getting the feedback on what works and what doesn't.
[9] The eighties in the UK was infamously poor at handling Asian characters, so I'm technically cheating by casting an actual Japanese actor in the role. As it is, he's able to cut down on a good amount of the "Ahhh fuck, how did I miss that as a kid" jokes that plague a lot of our cartoons.
[10] Here we are @Ogrebear, a specific reason given! I'll definitely be covering that once we get further into the 90's!
[11] Honestly, the Hitler stuff would probably make it in over here, at least compared to America, especially in the later timeslot.
[12] It will of course be aided by the steady exposure of Miyazaki's work to Western shores over the last few years.
[13] In the sense that all third goes around tend to be regarded with a little less respect than their two predecessors, Gold Jacket occupies a space as being the weakest of the three. It will still be well regarded, it's focus upon Lupin's relationship with the other characters as they are often paired up into different combinations is praised. But there is the sense that there is no plan beyond episodic adventures.
[14] Both of these will resemble their OTL counterparts more than they don't, albeit with the former bulked out for a wider release.
[15] To quote one Soos Ramirez, I make my own economy! I might do this later on down the road.
[16] By this point, both sides of the pond have gotten rather used to each other's quirks of writing and are able to fashion together something that recognizably is Lupin despite being written for the UK first and foremost. The serialized storytelling will be received very well, however.
[17] These take the place of Woman called Fujiko Mine and the three other stories set in the same continuity, the darker and edgier versions will recieve greater pushback than in our timeline due to the world having more fondness for the softened character.
[18] Here Monkey Punch might begin to resent the lack of credit he is being given for the manga and the character. While he'll never hate or disown the series, he will cool on it significantly.
[19] It'll last for two seasons, bringing us up to roughly the present day. Again it will feature something of a serialized narrative that will also serve as a celebration of the franchise's past a la OTL's Part V.
[20] As per our timeline, Yasuo Yamada will pass away in 1995, but the remaining cast will continue going until 2014 at the latest, with all bar Jigen's voice actor retiring. He will continue going until 2022, again as per OTL, but this time exiting on the latest Lupin film entitled 'Farewell to Empires' Maybe if we'll last long enough, I'll get to tell that story in full.
Andrew Gregson, Animation Nation.com, 2013.
It begins with a strike.
More specifically, the strikes that crippled network television for a period between 1982 and 1983. [1] Much has been written about their effects in that department but one thing that tends to get overlooked is the way it inspired a small but vital strike in Japan.
It achieved nothing in the grand run of things, it was quashed easily if one is to compare it to others, but TMS was briefly taken out of commission when a group of animators inspired by the American strikes launched their own. [2] Nothing would change save for the application of a fresh coat of paint over the old flaws but one production was set back by quite a bit. The third Lupin series had been in the planning stages, now with director Yuzo Aoki moving on to new projects, it was scrapped and left on the side while the company focused elsewhere. [3]
Fast forward to 1984, and the negotiations between Mike Young of Siriol and TMS for the rights to Sherlock Hound. Young was shown subtitled versions of the program, and was impressed. Asking if they had anything else beyond what they had already discussed, he was shown to a viewing room and waited upon hand and foot as five episodes were prepared. One was the original Lupin pilot from 1969, two were from the first season (Green Jacket) and two from the second (Red Jacket). He was impressed by how much he was able to get out of them even without the subtitles. He thought that while they were different than his usual fare, there was a market for it. [4]
He would revisit the subject when work began on Sherlock Hound 2. Soon, he was sitting down with his lawyers to discuss with TMS and Toei about licensing Lupin in England. A fourth party would have to be involved, namely the estate of Maurice LeBlanc who had created the original Lupin in 1905. The estate had never been consulted on the character’s creation and so a complicated back and forth was underway. At last, deals were struck and Lupin could keep his name. [5] But only if there was a bit before the action began that stated in legalese that Lupin was based on a character created by LeBlanc. Complicated to do for all one hundred and seventy-eight episodes, plus the two films made up until that point AND the pilot. But it was agreed upon. Luckily for all concerned, the copyright would run out later on down the line and these cumbersome legal disclaimers could be removed.
So much for getting it. Now that he had it, what was he going to do? He could have just stuck it all on videos and shoved it onto shelves, getting official money that before had been going to anime pirates or bootleggers selling VHS copies. But Young had been making friends with Superted, and so he contacted a couple of them to see what could be done with the haul. [6] They found that there were problems with both batches, not fatal ones but ones to work with. Part I suffered from a wild swing in tone around about the halfway point of the show, due to the taking over of Miyazaki and Takahata from the original director. Due to this, the third episode of that series was woefully animated. Part II had similar jumps in quality of animation but a steady tone throughout. However, given that there were one hundred and fifty five episodes amongst them, aired practically weekly over the course of two years, the plots tended to go insane every once in a while. Young rolled his sleeves up and got to work, gathering together as many people as he could. Translators, people who had lived in Japan, fans of anime and of Lupin specifically. To test them, he asked them to handle the original pilot movie first. The instructions were simple in theory: keep the original idea of the dialogue intact but make sure it works for our audience. [7]
When this was done, now it had to be matched to what was on the screens. Paid a good amount of money for three afternoons worth of time, Derek Griffiths and Sean Barrett were brought in to preform every role in the pilot. They didn’t have to be exactly within the movements of the characters mouths, but close enough would do. When this was done, the pilot was shipped off to ITV to test it with the words: We have more of this waiting for you. ITV loved it and responded that they’d like to see more.
Young now turned back to the team and hashed out an agreement of the fate of the remaining Lupin material. The Mystery of Mamo, the first Lupin movie, could serve as a perfect introduction to the bizarre world of Lupin. It would be paired up with Red Jacket to air upon TV. The Castle of Cagliostro was agreed by all concerned as something that belonged on the big screen, and was kept back until they could establish an audience for the show. Green Jacket would air on VHS, dubbed and used to entreat fans interested in how the gang all met up for the first time. [8]
The voice cast would consist of a mixture of regular Siriol players and newcomers. Griffiths and Barrett would return, cast as Lupin and Jigen, while their vocal chords would be spared the stress of having to voice every other character. Togo Igawa would take up the role of Goemon [9], while Fujiko was played by Nicola Bryant. And of course, Inspector Zenigata was played with the powerful voice of Brian Blessed, often barely being able to restrain himself from cursing up a storm, with a few lines left in when the mood suited it. For the most part, whenever recording sessions for other shows would come up, actors from there would be drafted in to play various characters of note.
The show premiered in 1986, with most of Part II’s first year already having been completed and work still continuing on the rest. It is said that the dubbing of this was so intensive that Young had to turn down an offer to pick up the Japanese-French series Mysterious Cities of Gold for fear that it might actually kill the dubbing team to add a fifth series to be translated. [10] (Fans of the show would have no reason to fear, with the success of the show in other foreign climates, two more series would be greenlit and would enter production in 1988. By the time of 1994, with the fourth and final series in production, Siriol would be able to bring all four over to the UK).
It premiered in a timeslot that bridged the gap between the pre and post watershed programming. It’s fun action, a healthy mix of raunchy and urbane humor, the performances of all the cast members and the fun soundtrack made in a decent hit. The Green Jacket VHS’s would sell well, though not as well as those that belonged to the Red Jacket era. Thus was Miyazaki’s Lupin established over Monkey Punch’s in the same vein that Fleming’s Bond was eclipsed by the Bond of EON. Some episodes had to be edited down or removed completely, though strangely the infamous Hitler episode was not one of them, [11] but for the most part all the episodes were aired in batches from 1986 to 1990. After a one-year break meant to give the dubbing crews a chance to breathe and work at a slower pace, the Castle of Cagliostro was finished and readied for release to cinemas in early 1992. It’s status as a genuine classic having grown over the years since it’s lackluster debut in Japan meant that a lot of audiences would go see it through word of mouth, and it’s status as a Lupin film you could watch with your kids meant that even more people went to see it. Lupin had gained a younger following despite the later airing time and many were happy that they could see one in the cinema without having to sneak around their parents. It’s status as a big deal had also brought actors Colin Baker and Jooly Richardson in to play the Count of Cagliostro and Princess Clarisse respectively. It was a steady profit turner, not one to set records but one that was consistently fighting throughout it’s run. [12]
It would be another four years before Lupin and company would return anywhere. It was during this time that the dubbers would unionize and official reconstruction of the translation department of Siriol would be undertaken. By the time Young was ready to renegotiate with TMS and Toei, he was aware of what it was he was doing and managed to get not only the Gold Jacket series (Part III) [13] and the two movies made afterwards (1992’s Last Stand of Lady Liberty and 1995’s Farewell to Nostradamus) [14] but also made an offer for a partnership on a fifth film. This one would be set in the United Kingdom and would be entitled ‘Lupin III: No Honour Amongst Thieves’. This would lead into the first Lupin series specifically created for the UK market. The deal was agreed and serious work on said movie began in 1998. The series and other movies would air on TV throughout 1997 to 1999 just in time for the much publicized Lupin Goes to the UK movie in 2000.
Following the success of that movie (See the sidebar for our breakdown of it) [15] for the first time Lupin would premiere it's new show on the UK first. A certain level of freedom was given to the actors in Part IV, as the newly blue-jacketed Lupin leads his gang on a wild chase across country after country, following in the footsteps of Phineas Fogg in attempting to make it around the world in eighty days without being able to enter an airport. Along the way they discovered a series of treasures that hinted at a grand conspiracy which led to them doing battle with the famed Captain Nemo (Alexander Siddig) in the finale. Japan had a little bit of a mixed reaction to it, but it was still a great money earner and the UK ate it up. [16]
There would be a longer break this time, until the Dawn of Lupin Quartet in 2012. [17] These attempted to go back to Monkey Punch's original manga in terms of violence and moral ambiguity, and though the rape as comedy gags were cut completely it was certainly the most sexual content the franchise had seen. The black-jacketed Lupin was a clear sign, and they would premiere in the UK as late night specials, far out of sight of any kids. Interestingly, these have received far more pushback in the UK due to the discomfort many felt at the characters returning to their darker roots. Even those who liked them suggested that it showed why Miyazaki's changes had kept the series going long after it might have run out of steam. [18]
The news of a new series in 2015, Lupin Takes the Fifth which is set to be the thief's first full-season stay in America, has received much praise for it's trailer and rendition of the classic theme. Though much has been said about the new pink jacket that Lupin is wearing, it's a nice tribute to where the franchise might have gone if things had not broken down the way they were. And with rumours that this might be the first multi-season series since the Red Jacket era, [19] it appears we'll have a long time to get used to it. While three out of the five original cast members are leaving in Japan [20], there seems to be no hurry for any of our English dubbed friends to be taking their last bows. Even as Derek Griffiths says goodbye to Superted, he admits that he's still having the time of his life with the thief. As indeed are we all.
Long may Lupin reign supreme!
[1] As discussed in the main timeline post!
[2] I admit that this is perhaps me pushing the limit a little on the likelihood of such things. But such waves can happen, they can spread to other parts of the world. In this case, given that Japan's infamous work schedule for animators is so culturally engrained there are fewer people to go against the grain.
[3] Here's where the big change comes in. Without a Pink Jacket series, Lupin does not enter a wildly recognized doldrum era for the franchise. The push-to-the-limits looseness of the animation style and a heavy focus upon comedy over action will in OTL go down badly with the fanbase. The one movie produced, Legend of the Gold of Babylon, will also underperform badly at the box office. This in turn will also lead to the first OVA for the franchise and a phenomenal miscalculation by the higher ups that leads to the one-time only mass recasting of the entire Lupin voice cast. It'll be prettily animated and all that, but fans will react very nastily to it. In the process, the relationship between Monkey Punch and Lupin's seiyuu Yasuo Yamada will be strained out of a mistaken belief that the author was dissatisfied with his performance (He wasn't, he just was a little too neutral on the matter) and by the time Yamada passes away in 1995 both men will be somewhat estranged form each other. The franchise thereafter enters a series of specials that range from very good to mediocre and a couple of theatrical movies of similar quality but none of which, it must be stated, sets the world on fire. It's only recently that the franchise has really re-entered as a viable contender as opposed to a legacy franchise. And thanks to this, the series that starts the decline is a no-go.
[4] Young is idealistic but he is not stupid. Much like Henson disliked Transformers but nonetheless recognized that there was a market for it, Lupin is not his cup of tea and yet it is exactly the kind of thing that can sell in eighties Britain.
[5] There will, therefore, be no 'Wolf' renaming as per the original Streamline dubs or 'Rupan' as in the AnimEigo dub. There will however be 'Cliff', as Cliff-Hanger will still use clips from the movies to wrap their game around.
[6] This incidentally is how the original Superted got several UK celebrities to play the roles, for Young was a friend of Victor Spinetti who had various show business contacts throughout the country.
[7] The result will be somewhere along the lines of the more restrained episodes of OTL's Geneon Dub, sans over the top cultural references.
[8] Similar to OTL Tugs, some may air on network TV at some point but it's all about getting the feedback on what works and what doesn't.
[9] The eighties in the UK was infamously poor at handling Asian characters, so I'm technically cheating by casting an actual Japanese actor in the role. As it is, he's able to cut down on a good amount of the "Ahhh fuck, how did I miss that as a kid" jokes that plague a lot of our cartoons.
[10] Here we are @Ogrebear, a specific reason given! I'll definitely be covering that once we get further into the 90's!
[11] Honestly, the Hitler stuff would probably make it in over here, at least compared to America, especially in the later timeslot.
[12] It will of course be aided by the steady exposure of Miyazaki's work to Western shores over the last few years.
[13] In the sense that all third goes around tend to be regarded with a little less respect than their two predecessors, Gold Jacket occupies a space as being the weakest of the three. It will still be well regarded, it's focus upon Lupin's relationship with the other characters as they are often paired up into different combinations is praised. But there is the sense that there is no plan beyond episodic adventures.
[14] Both of these will resemble their OTL counterparts more than they don't, albeit with the former bulked out for a wider release.
[15] To quote one Soos Ramirez, I make my own economy! I might do this later on down the road.
[16] By this point, both sides of the pond have gotten rather used to each other's quirks of writing and are able to fashion together something that recognizably is Lupin despite being written for the UK first and foremost. The serialized storytelling will be received very well, however.
[17] These take the place of Woman called Fujiko Mine and the three other stories set in the same continuity, the darker and edgier versions will recieve greater pushback than in our timeline due to the world having more fondness for the softened character.
[18] Here Monkey Punch might begin to resent the lack of credit he is being given for the manga and the character. While he'll never hate or disown the series, he will cool on it significantly.
[19] It'll last for two seasons, bringing us up to roughly the present day. Again it will feature something of a serialized narrative that will also serve as a celebration of the franchise's past a la OTL's Part V.
[20] As per our timeline, Yasuo Yamada will pass away in 1995, but the remaining cast will continue going until 2014 at the latest, with all bar Jigen's voice actor retiring. He will continue going until 2022, again as per OTL, but this time exiting on the latest Lupin film entitled 'Farewell to Empires' Maybe if we'll last long enough, I'll get to tell that story in full.
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