TL-191 Uniform, weapons and equipment of the Secondary Combatants.

[Alterwright]

However, this is less of an inconsistency and more of a butterfly effect that is in need of some detailed explanation. While correct in stating that the "Flag of Quebec" as it currently stands right now wasn't made official until 1948, previous flags of Quebec in OTL show similar variations of the 1948 flag before the First Great War.

The link https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_of_Quebec gives good examples of what flags were being flown during the History of the Canadian Province of Quebec.

It makes sense that the Carillon Sacré-Coeur/Fleurdelisé would still have been made as the official flag of the Republic of Quebec, if not just a little bit different.

Yes, I agree. The usage of the Carillon-style flag would likely be a result of the butterfly effect of having Quebec's independence proclaimed in 1917, far before it was officially adopted in our timeline in 1948 as the regional flag as part of Canada. There was, of course, still a desire for self government among the Quebecois at this time despite some major misgivings. And of course the design of a flag like the modern Quebec one was in the works. I do agree as well that there would likely be some variation in the flag in TL-191.

In fact I am glad you brought up the topic of Quebec's flag again, as there is an alternative flag to the Carillon-style flag, one that was actually made and adopted by the Patriote Movement of Canada from 1832-1838 and one that would likely be on the minds of Quebecers even in TL-191.

^^^ --- This is the flag of the Parti Patriote, used from 1832-1838 as part of the Rebellion of Lower Canada in 1837-1838. This rebellion took place in what is now Quebec and was the "national flag" of the self proclaimed "Republic of Lower Canada". It was said that the design was inspired by the tricolor of France, but that the colors were representative of the Irish-Canadians (green), French-Canadians (white), and English-Quebecers (red). This flag was representative of the movement for an independent Lower Canada.

And yes, it has apparently been commented on that it looks similar to a couple of other national flags.

 

[Alterwright]

So, I've been attempting to make several iterations of a possible Mormon rebel flag, to symbolize their desire for independence from the United States. So far I've made a bi-color flag with the primary colors being yellow and blue. The other alternative with be a very simplified version of the Utah state flag that completely omits the bald eagle and any association with the United States, leaving only a very simplified beehive. In some iterations the flag also displays the "Deseret Alphabet".

To me the bi-color could be used as a visual shorthand of sorts to identify fighters in pitched battles - it would be worn as armband of sorts usually and really the only "uniform" the Mormons would have.

As for the Mormon fighters themselves --- obviously a motley bunch. Civilian clothing would be the norm, spliced with captured US equipment and guns, plus any arms that get smuggled to them or ones that the Mormons make themselves.

 

[pattontank12]

Potential uniforms for the German Empire's MittelAfrikan Schutztruppe during the Second Great War.

https://www.deviantart.com/cid-vicious/art/Schutztruppe-NCO-and-officers-672089072

 

[Alterwright]

Potential uniforms for the German Empire's MittelAfrikan Schutztruppe during the Second Great War.

https://www.deviantart.com/cid-vicious/art/Schutztruppe-NCO-and-officers-672089072

Very cool! I like these! I'm not a big fan of the ties, never was a big fan of ties on field uniforms, but for the overall look of these uniforms I like them! Especially the hats.

 

[pattontank12]

Very cool! I like these! I'm not a big fan of the ties, never was a big fan of ties on field uniforms, but for the overall look of these uniforms I like them! Especially the hats.

Me neither. Though overall it's a pretty good officers uniform.

 

[Alterwright]

Me neither. Though overall it's a pretty good officers uniform.

Indeed. The Schutztruppen would definitely be expanded in TL-191, since Imperial Germany still retains its colonies. While they certainly aren't the Afrika Korps, their uniforms can be directly inspired from them in terms of functionality. We would not only get the desert climates of South West Africa though --- legit jungle environments from Mittelafrika to German Pacific colonies would require a whole new uniform fitted for the humid tropical jungle environments, something light and possibly green in tint.

 

[pattontank12]

Indeed. The Schutztruppen would definitely be expanded in TL-191, since Imperial Germany still retains its colonies. While they certainly aren't the Afrika Korps, their uniforms can be directly inspired from them in terms of functionality. We would not only get the desert climates of South West Africa though --- legit jungle environments from Mittelafrika to German Pacific colonies would require a whole new uniform fitted for the humid tropical jungle environments, something light and possibly green in tint.

Maybe taking some elements of various South American uniforms alongside the OTL Vietnam and Pacific wars?

 

[Alterwright]

Maybe taking some elements of various South American uniforms alongside the OTL Vietnam and Pacific wars?

Mm. Not the Vietnam War. Too far into the future for that. But if you mean functionality instead of the actual "look" then yes. Just a light uniform, HBT equivalent materials possibly, fairly simple in style. Either a certain shade of green or khaki.

Well funny enough if you look at some uniforms of the South American armies from the 1930s and 1940s some of them tend to lean toward looking like European uniforms. Some as well were very basic and crude, reflective of the limited funds some of the countries had.

 

[cortz#9]

Indeed. The Schutztruppen would definitely be expanded in TL-191, since Imperial Germany still retains its colonies. While they certainly aren't the Afrika Korps, their uniforms can be directly inspired from them in terms of functionality. We would not only get the desert climates of South West Africa though --- legit jungle environments from Mittelafrika to German Pacific colonies would require a whole new uniform fitted for the humid tropical jungle environments, something light and possibly green in tint.

The uniforms worn by the SA or "Brown Shirts" were originally going to be issued to German troops serving in Africa in WWI had the war lasted a little longer.

 

[pattontank12]

Something similar to this stuff but developed from a more "Germanic" origin wouldn't be too far out of the question.

 

[cortz#9]

The Pz-VII ausf.B Germany's main battle barrel in the early years of the Second Great War.

 

[Alterwright]

The uniforms worn by the SA or "Brown Shirts" were originally going to be issued to German troops serving in Africa in WWI had the war lasted a little longer.

Yeah, there we go. That shade of brown and that kind of lighter fabric would be good for the African environment. Get rid of the Nazi gunk and do away with the kepi and that uniform could be used by soldiers in the Imperial German colonial troops in a desert like region.

 

[Alterwright]

Something similar to this stuff but developed from a more "Germanic" origin wouldn't be too far out of the question.

Yes, like that! Something simple, light, and adapted for use in the jungles. I believe Imperial Germany had a few colonies in New Guinea, the Solomons, China, and Samoa. With the outbreak of war in TL-191 and with the High Seas Fleet bottled up in North Sea, these places would be sitting ducks if they came under attack by the British and Australians. However, there would likely be a smaller Pacific Fleet based out of some location here. If the Germans here decided to put up a fight, it would be a grueling fight for the British and Australians.

In any case, we'd uniforms like that, yeah. Of course with a distinct German cut. I hate to use the Afrika Korps as an example, but they're really one of the few other examples of this for a possible jungle environment besides the British examples shown.

^^^ --- its the same shade of green as the British uniforms for the tropics too.

^^^ --- Another example here.

 

[Alterwright]

The Pz-VII ausf.B Germany's main battle barrel in the early years of the Second Great War.

View attachment 443314

Cool! Slanted armor for this one right? Looks like the turret of a Panther with a "sawed-off" barrel --- slightly shorter barrel I mean. I wondering if this version would still have the same technical problems as the OTL version. Then again the Germans have more time to develop their stuff so perhaps the those pesky kinks would get ironed out some way.

This one looks like a bruiser. I good contender for what the Russians, French, and British can throw at it.

 

[cortz#9]

Cool! Slanted armor for this one right? Looks like the turret of a Panther with a "sawed-off" barrel --- slightly shorter barrel I mean. I wondering if this version would still have the same technical problems as the OTL version. Then again the Germans have more time to develop their stuff so perhaps the those pesky kinks would get ironed out some way.

This one looks like a bruiser. I good contender for what the Russians, French, and British can throw at it.

I used sections from OTL German designs for improved Pz.IV's and tossed them all together to make a new tank.

 

[pattontank12]

Yes, like that! Something simple, light, and adapted for use in the jungles. I believe Imperial Germany had a few colonies in New Guinea, the Solomons, China, and Samoa. With the outbreak of war in TL-191 and with the High Seas Fleet bottled up in North Sea, these places would be sitting ducks if they came under attack by the British and Australians. However, there would likely be a smaller Pacific Fleet based out of some location here. If the Germans here decided to put up a fight, it would be a grueling fight for the British and Australians.

In any case, we'd uniforms like that, yeah. Of course with a distinct German cut. I hate to use the Afrika Korps as an example, but they're really one of the few other examples of this for a possible jungle environment besides the British examples shown.

View attachment 443316

^^^ --- its the same shade of green as the British uniforms for the tropics too.

View attachment 443317

^^^ --- Another example here.

I'd say another possible source of inspiration could be the Shutztruppe and Askari from OTL ww1, only modernised slightly for the SGW era.

 

[Alterwright]

I used sections from OTL German designs for improved Pz.IV's and tossed them all together to make a new tank.

Kind of reminds me of a smaller, more versatile Panther tank. I think that's because of the turret.

 

[Alterwright]

I'd say another possible source of inspiration could be the Shutztruppe and Askari from OTL ww1, only modernised slightly for the SGW era.

Yes. They'd likely update the uniforms. Germany would have a colonial force to maintain in this timeline, to manage their possessions in Africa and to patrol the borders with other hostile colonies. Germans in South West Africa would likely still retain the brimmed hat, but adopt a modern uniform with more modern gear. German Askaris would get a more modern uniform as well, likely ditching the more flashy hats for something more practical.

 

[Alterwright]

From the Yankee Joe thread, the VZ-37 sub-machine gun of the Mexican army.
View attachment 435051

I remember this gun for the Mexicans in the other thread. You know, I wasn't able to look up of the Mexicans actually had their own sub-machinegun OTL. This would mean that Mexicans squads would be lacking in firepower somewhat, with most squads based around an LMG, if the Mexicans can afford to give every squad one.

 

[Alterwright]

My first thought was second tier British gear but Japan might be seen as more of a threat here with out the US as an ally. They might combine resources for a home built small-ish medium tank and multi purpose fighter-bomber and I could see them making their own subguns and some other small arms and of license built British weapons and some CSA weapons.

I could see the Aussies and Kiwis wanting the license to the CS Barrel Buster and maybe even a licence for the Mexican mondragan and Vz-37. Mexico would be happy to get the business.

Yes. If cooperation between the British, Australians, and Confederates is close, then we could see technology sharing to some degree. The difficulty would be in how to get those plan to each member, since the seas are hotly contested and alliances in this timeline are a mess.