TL-191 Uniform, weapons and equipment of the Secondary Combatants.

Flag Designs for the Republic of Quebec

These are just a few alternative styles for flag designs for the Republic of Quebec. They're not much different that the actual flag of Quebec right now, I figured I'd make these anyway.

Unknown-5 copy 2.png


^^^ Version 1

Unknown copy 2.png


^^^ Version 2

Unknown-2 copy.png


^^^ Version 3
 
Version 2 is the most interesting for me, a nice in-between ALT and OTL

Unknown copy 2.png


^^^ This one? Yeah, I like it too. I looked at a copy of the Carllion Flag for this one and decided to make a simplified version of it. Its still uniquely Quebecois, but I imagine in a timeline such as this that certain flags will have slight alternations. Mexico, or the Mexican Empire, for example has a much different flag than in our timeline.

Imperial Mexican Flag.png


^^^ Very Hapsburg, much imperial, reflective of the fact that the country is ruled by a monarch rather than being a republic. And yet it also still resembles the real mexican flag in certain ways.
 
Royal Thai Army: 1941-1944

In our timeline, Thailand was able to be an active participant in WWI, sending a small expeditionary force to France to fight along side the Allies. Its units saw action in 1918. You can see a lot of influence from that conflict in the way their uniform is designed, with recognizable French elements incorporated into it, such as the Adrian helmet.

In TL-191, with the war ending in 1917 after a Central Powers victory that saw France capitulate, it is admittedly difficult to imagine what the Thai Army might look like in the years just before the Second Great War. However, with its alignment toward Japan in the 1940s, it is very possible that the Royal Thai Army may receive equipment from the Japanese, as it did in our timeline. Fortunately there are real life examples that incorporate significant French and Japanese elements.

Uniform:

While it is possible the Adrian helmet may not come into service with the Thai Army, a locally produced version of the Japanese helmet may be possible. In our timeline the Thai Army utilized both helmet types at one point or another.

493dcbaf3d7809da14be46d6f8414d8f.jpg
7ff866dc3c5e6aa2620bd44907f6ce92.jpg
9aa933736f202c6b2c534c6984df5de9.jpg
dsc_0049-1-1.jpg
Thai Front.jpg
d74bd5b2-ea6d-4cc1-9439-3bd5d8777f64.jpg


Military Equipment:

British tanks and tankettes such as the Carden-Loyd Mk. 4 and Vickers 6-ton Mk. E were used by the Thai Army in our timeline during the Inter-War period, but the army was also equipped with Japanese tanks and aircraft as WWII dragged on, which included Type 95 Ha-Go tanks and Nakajima Ki-43 "Oscars".

69_6.jpg

Thai_ha-go.jpg

Carden-Loyd_MkVI_Thai_HD.jpg


Weapons:

Thailand produced copies of several rifles for use by the army. While some were copies of the Mauser design from other countries, a few models were also copied from the Japanese Arisaka. The example below is a Mauser-style rifle - the Siamese Type-46 Mauser.

Thai-Mauser-Type-46-sides.jpg
 
The Cortez C-41 "Quetza". Entering service in 1941 the Quetza was a speedy and nimble fighter plane, its main drawback was a lack of firepower being armed with only two 50 cal MG's over the cowling and a 50 in each wing, later variants would have an extra 50 cal mounted in the wings but in a time when most front-line fighters carried cannons the Quetza was seen as under-armed by CS pilots who evaluated the plane but they did praise its maneuverability.
Some C-41's had a 20mm cannon mounted in an under-wing gondola.

_Cor-41 Augilar.jpg
 
Last edited:
The Cortez C-41 "Quetza". Entering service in 1941 the Quetza was a speedy and nimble fighter plane, its main drawback was a lack of firepower being armed with only two 50 cal MG's over the cowling and a 50 in each wing, later variants would have an extra 50 cal mounted in the wings but in a time when most front-line fighters carried cannons the Quetza was seen as under-armed by CS pilots who evaluated the plane but they did praise its maneuverability.
Some C-41's had a 20mm cannon mounted in an under-wing gondola.

Nice work here! I quite like the unique design here you did. Looks like a combination of a Corsair and a French plane of some kind. Its specs are reminiscent of the Zero too. A plane like this would likely be the Mexican's main line fighter plane. Could give a yankee pilot a run for their money that's for sure, but from the description of it would not be a good match for the anything Mexico's enemies would throw at her. From the description the Confederates gave they weren't that impressed by it either despite the good remarks maneuverability. Still I can see this being the best fighter the Mexicans have and a fairly competent and reliable design at that. In the hands of a skilled Mexican pilot, especially with a couple more guns, it could really do some damage.
 
Cortez D-40 "Machette" ground attack and light bomber.

On so this is the Mexican's own entry into attack-bomber category. Doesn't look like it could be a dive bomber, but I could be wrong. Probably more suited to the ground support role. I'm really digging the roundels and decals on this one! Recognizability in the air would be crucial!
 
On so this is the Mexican's own entry into attack-bomber category. Doesn't look like it could be a dive bomber, but I could be wrong. Probably more suited to the ground support role. I'm really digging the roundels and decals on this one! Recognizability in the air would be crucial!
Most aircraft can dive to a point, I don't think it would be a stretch to say the Machette could dive bomb.
 
Since France is a monarchy again any chance of the white orleans banner, suplimenting the tricolor?

I'm so sorry, I wanted to expand on this a bit more, but was pressed for time. Right, so, after doing some basic research, I believe I know why the flag of France in TL-191 starting in 1931 is the way it is.

fluer-de-lis.jpg


^^^ --- This particular flag is very representative of France in a way, especially in regards to French royalty and catholicism. The symbol of the Fleur-de-lis, as well as the colors of blue and yellow, are also used by the political faction Action Francaise. So, more than anything, this flag may be more representative as the political party's flag. They are far-right French nationalists that support a return of the monarchy in France --- but it should be noted that it seems they were not in favor of a return of an absolutist Bourbon monarch. And that's an important distinction to make in this case, especially in the case of France.

It seems that Action Francaise was primarily a pro-Orleanist faction. The Orleanists, way back in French history after the Napoleonic Wars, were in favor of a restoration of the monarchy, but as a constitutional monarch, with the ideal candidate coming from the House of Orleans, with the king acting as a kind of political rallying point to steer the parliament in a general direction. A good example would be King Louis-Phillip I from 1830-1848.

The Orleanists, and by extension the House of Orleans, were very opposed to the the idea of a complete Bourbon restoration which was advocated for by the Legitimists --- supporters that were equally far-right, yet very ultra-royalist. The Legitimists wanted to completely restore the Ancien Regime of France --- that is to say they wanted the complete restoration of absolutism in France it seems, with all the privileges it allotted to the nobles. As such, they supported the House of Bourbon. Their primary colors to distinguish them were blue and white.

Its also important to note that both Legitimists and the Orleanists were passionately opposed to democracy and especially republicanism in France, which they saw as a corrupting element to the country. Likewise for Action Francaise, they too would be opposed to this in their own way, since they advocated heavily for the return of a monarch.

And I think this is an important distinction to make. If the monarchy truly did return to France, it would be represented by the flag as well, but it would be important to the French as to which faction that supported monarchy was in charge. If their was a Bourbon on the throne, then the flag would very likely be the white flag.

But it this case its the flag of Action Francaise, a very pro-Orleanist faction, which would likely not raise the white flag that is so representative of the Bourbons, which they opposed.

Again, could be wrong on all of this, but I thought it was fascinating to learn.
 
Last edited:
So Soundwave3591 over on Deviantart did some more on Timeline 191's barrels or more specifically Panzer's.

The German Empire

https://www.deviantart.com/soundwave3591/art/TL191-German-Panzers-786574110

Austro-hungary

https://www.deviantart.com/soundwave3591/art/TL191-Austro-Hungarian-Panzers-786574183

Yesss, I saw these ones too. I like the interpretations he did here. Looks like the Tiger, Panzer, and a few OTL Hungarian tanks seem to be in the timeline, but under different names and designations. What's interesting here is that both the Austro-Hungarians and the Germans seem to be sharing the same equipment, such as the half-track. Level of cooperation kinda reminds me of the Allies in OTL WWII.
 
Flag Designs for the Republic of Quebec

These are just a few alternative styles for flag designs for the Republic of Quebec. They're not much different that the actual flag of Quebec right now, I figured I'd make these anyway.

View attachment 441478

^^^ Version 1

View attachment 441479

^^^ Version 2

View attachment 441480

^^^ Version 3

From the "Inconsistencies" page in the Turtledove wiki:
From the minute the Republic of Quebec is proclaimed in Breakthroughs, their flag is four white fleurs-de-lys and a white cross on a blue field. This is said to have been the previous Canadian provincial flag. The flag was not adopted by OTL Quebec Province until 1948.

However, this is less of an inconsistency and more of a butterfly effect that is in need of some detailed explanation. While correct in stating that the "Flag of Quebec" as it currently stands right now wasn't made official until 1948, previous flags of Quebec in OTL show similar variations of the 1948 flag before the First Great War.

The link https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_of_Quebec gives good examples of what flags were being flown during the History of the Canadian Province of Quebec.

It makes sense that the Carillon Sacré-Coeur/Fleurdelisé would still have been made as the official flag of the Republic of Quebec, if not just a little bit different.
 
Last edited:
Top