The Union Forever: A TL

[Darth_Kiryan]

Wow, impressed with those people. Von Moltke and Schlieffen.
And you still have Pershing in a command position.

At least Haig ain't in charge of the British Army.Kudos for Kitchener.

 

[Mac Gregor]

Coalition Order of Battle

American Expeditionary Force (AEF): LTG James F. Bell
1st Army:Robert Lee Bullard
3rd Army:Frederick Funston
4th Army:John Pershing

British Expeditionary Force (BEF): Field Marshal Herbert Kitchener
1st Army: Julian Byng
2nd Army: John French
3rd Army: Douglas Haig

Prussian Army Group A: Field Marshal Schlieffen
1st Army:Johannes Georg von der Marwitz
2nd Army:Otto Liman von Sanders
4th Army: Alexander Von Kuck

Prussian Army Group B: Field Marshal Von Moltke
3rd Army:Karl von Bulow
6th Army:Oskatr von Huiter


Russian 7th Army: General Alexi Brusilov [1]

Entente Order of Battle

French 1st Army: Ferdinand Foch

French 2nd Army:Louis Franchet d'Esperey

French 3rd Army:Jospeh Gallieni

French 4th Army: Robert Nivelle

(I choose people who served in OTL WWI and had more than 25 years army experience, except for americans)

Looks great! Are all these individuals born pre POD?

 

[Mac Gregor]

I would just like to see a young charles de gaulle if at all possible

Sorry. de Gaulle was born in 1890 which is to far past the POD.

 

[Earl_of_Somerset]

Looks great! Are all these individuals born pre POD?

Since the POD is 1862, all of these except poor Frederick Funston check out. Julian Byng was 6 months in the womb when the POD took place.

A replacement for Frederick Funston could be Omar Bundy (Born 1861)

If Julian Byng wont work John Nixon, born 1857, could. It should be noted he commanded the British Indian Army.


Coalition Order of Battle

American Expeditionary Force (AEF): LTG James F. Bell
1st Army:Robert Lee Bullard: Born 1861 (This is probably the closest case EVER)

3rd Army:Frederick Funston: Born 1865 (Hes out for good, since the POD allows for his dad to get off of Union army service 2 years earlier....)

4th Army:John Pershing: Born 1860

British Expeditionary Force (BEF): Field Marshal Herbert Kitchener
1st Army: Julian Byng: Born Late 1862 (He was in the womb when the POD took place so hes probably still gonna be born)

2nd Army: John French: Born 1852

3rd Army: Douglas Haig: Born 1861 (Again another close call)


Prussian Army Group A: Field Marshal Schlieffen
1st Army:Johannes Georg von der Marwitz: Born 1856

2nd Army:Otto Liman von Sanders: Born 1855

4th Army: Alexander Von Kluck: Born 1846

Prussian Army Group B: Field Marshal Von Moltke
3rd Army:Karl von Bulow: Born 1846

6th Army:Oskar von Huiter: Born 1857


Russian 7th Army: General Alexi Brusilov [1]

Entente Order of Battle

French 1st Army: Ferdinand Foch: Born 1851


French 2nd Army:Louis Franchet d'Esperey: Born 1856


French 3rd Army:Jospeh Gallieni: Born 1849


French 4th Army: Robert Nivelle: Born 1856

 

[jlckansas]

Whoever command the AEF would not be a 3 star. The US made Pershing, IOTL, a higher up general to give him the equal command rank to the Field Marshal grade which was the level he was dealing with IOTL. The individual army commanders would be 3 star however.

For the commanders I would go with
1st Army: Robert L. B Bullard
2nd Army: Hunter Liggett (IOTL served as 1st Army commander)
3rd Army: Leonard Wood.

Hey everyone, listed below is an incomplete order of battle for the upcoming Operation Titanic (Oct-Nov 1910 in Alsace-Lorraine). I am not sure who to have as the army commanders. Please submit who you think should be in command of the various armies and I will add them to my next installment.

Coalition Order of Battle

American Expeditionary Force (AEF): LTG James F. Bell
1st Army
3rd Army
4th Army

British Expeditionary Force (BEF): Field Marshal Herbert Kitchener
1st Army
2nd Army
3rd Army

Prussian Army Group A: Field Marshal Schlieffen
1st Army:
2nd Army:
4th Army:

Prussian Army Group B: Field Marshal Von Moltke
3rd Army
6th Army


Russian 7th Army: General Alexi Brusilov [1]

Entente Order of Battle

French 1st Army:

French 2nd Army:

French 3rd Army:

French 4th Army:

[1] Replaced General Venyamin Belyaev

 

[CELTICEMPIRE]

There should be a Revolution in France.

 

[Lean II]

There should be a Revolution in France.

Like a Monarchist/Republican revolution installing a Constitutional Monarchy with some sense.

 

[Mac Gregor]

Whoever command the AEF would not be a 3 star. The US made Pershing, IOTL, a higher up general to give him the equal command rank to the Field Marshal grade which was the level he was dealing with IOTL. The individual army commanders would be 3 star however.

For the commanders I would go with
1st Army: Robert L. B Bullard
2nd Army: Hunter Liggett (IOTL served as 1st Army commander)
3rd Army: Leonard Wood.

Interesting point. I am willing to change this depending on what this thread thinks. Remember that in the TL during the civil war no one rose above Major General. During the Spanish-American War William T. Sherman was promoted to Lt. General. I think my rationale for having the AEF commander only be a Lt. General is that with this being a world war there might actually be some unmentioned General in Chief, or Chief of Staff of the Army back in Washington with Secretary of War of Roosevelt. What do ya'll think?

 

[Andristan]

I don't know about Julian Byng being the closest, Nikolai Yudenich was born July 1862, merely weeks after the POD and he still made it in.
I think that there would be a Chief of staff back in DC, like Marshall was in WWII or Hallack in the civil war, and there was somebody in the Spanish-American war but I forget his name.

 

[Darth_Kiryan]

Interesting point. I am willing to change this depending on what this thread thinks. Remember that in the TL during the civil war no one rose above Major General. During the Spanish-American War William T. Sherman was promoted to Lt. General. I think my rationale for having the AEF commander only be a Lt. General is that with this being a world war there might actually be some unmentioned General in Chief, or Chief of Staff of the Army back in Washington with Secretary of War of Roosevelt. What do ya'll think?

That would be a good idea, in a sense. But it would be preferable if there was a General-in-Chief commanding the armies in Europe, so a clear General as opposed to Lieutenant General.
But if the chief of staff was back in Washington...perhaps like a Grant-Halleck relationship after Grant was promoted in OTL. Halleck made sure that Grant had everything he needed, irregardless.

 

[GeneralTigerXVII]

I just found and read the TL, an awesome awesome job. This is the model I plan to base my (hopefully?) future TL on, In Shades of Grey. I am really torn by the latest war, I love Germany and AH, and want them BOTH..... . But alas, it was not to be....

 

[Mac Gregor]

I just found and read the TL, an awesome awesome job. This is the model I plan to base my (hopefully?) future TL on, In Shades of Grey. I am really torn by the latest war, I love Germany and AH, and want them BOTH..... . But alas, it was not to be....

Very glad you have like the TL. Just out of curiosity, what is the premise for In Shades of Gray?

 

[Earl_of_Somerset]

when can we expect an update?

I could understand it being awhile due to the General names (since im the only one who actually submitted a full list and only one other person submitted a partial list)

 

[GeneralTigerXVII]

Very glad you have like the TL. Just out of curiosity, what is the premise for In Shades of Gray?

It will look at the consequences of a Central Powers victory in ww1, with some interesting outcomes, like an earlier Great Depression, set off in France and an unorthodox answer to the Hungarian's resistance to change in Austria. Buy it now for the new lower price of just 19.99!

 

[Alternatehistoryguy47]

Sorry. de Gaulle was born in 1890 which is to far past the POD.

ah well, can't have everything

 

[Mac Gregor]

when can we expect an update?

I could understand it being awhile due to the General names (since im the only one who actually submitted a full list and only one other person submitted a partial list)

This weekend. Cheers!

 

[Mac Gregor]

Coalition Victorious ​

October-December, 1910 ​

American troops during Operation Titanic
October, 1910​

Operation Titanic

In what would prove to be the final and largest Coalition offensive of the Great War, Operation Titanic pitted the combined might of the Coalition of Free Nations against the Grande Armee of the French Empire. Along France’s eastern border the Coalition could muster a total of 5 Prussian, 3 British, 3 American, and 1 Russian Armies. While French armies were numerically larger than their Coalition counterparts Napoleon IV could only rely on the heavily attrited First, Second, Third and Fourth armies to defend his crumbling empire. The first of the three stages of Operation Titanic occurred on October 7, 1910 when Prussian Army Group B, composed of the Prussian 3rd and 6th Armies, engaged the French 4th Army at several points along the western bank of the Rhine. The second phase began 10 days later on October 17th, when the BEF and Russian 7th Army, now under the command of General Alexi Brusilov, crossed the border into France south of Saarbrucken and attacked the French 3rd Army and elements of the French 2nd Army. The third stage of the operation occurred on October 25th when, with the vast majority of the French army fixed on the attacking Russians and British, the AEF and Prussian Army Group A, composed of the Prussian 1st, 2nd, and 4th Armies, advanced south from Luxembourg towards the French city of Metz. The next few weeks of the operation would see some of the most intense combat of the war. In the air record numbers of French and Coalition airships and airplanes bombed and strafed while on the ground superior Coalition numbers overwhelmed the entrenched French infantry.

British Cataphract (Cat) Mk. 1​

Supported by offensives in Brittany and northern Italy, the constant pressure of the Coalition advance began to break the French. On November 4, 1910 Metz fell as Coalition armored cars and new armored tracked vehicles called cataphracts, or cats for short, continued south towards Nancy. The Battle of Nancy would last for over a week, as the Coalition first encircled and then pounded into submission this important French supply and transportation hub. On November 19th, Nancy surrendered to AEF commander LTG James F. Bell. In the following week French resistance in Alsace-Lorraine began to deteriorate as tens of thousands of hungry and demoralized French soldiers surrendered. By the end of the month, the once Grande Amree was in full retreat to the southwest.

Operation Titanic Order of Battle ​

Coalition

American Expeditionary Force (AEF): General James F. Bell
1st Army: Robert Lee Bullard
3rd Army: Leonard Wood
4th Army: John Pershing

British Expeditionary Force (BEF): Field Marshal Herbert Kitchener
1st Army: Julian Byng
2nd Army: John French
3rd Army: Douglas Haig

Prussian Army Group A: Field Marshal Schlieffen
1st Army:Johannes Georg von der Marwitz
2nd Army:Otto Liman von Sanders
4th Army: Alexander Von Kluck

Prussian Army Group B: Field Marshal Von Moltke
3rd Army:Karl von Bulow
6th Army:Oskar von Huiter

Russian 7th Army: General Alexi Brusilov

Entente

French 1st Army: Ferdinand Foch
French 2nd Army:Louis Franchet d'Esperey
French 3rd Army:Jospeh Gallieni
French 4th Army: Robert Nivelle


The December Revolution

With the collapse of the French armies in Alsace-Lorraine it became clear to everyone in the French capital that the war was now unwinnable. Everyone that is except for the Emperor. On November 29, 1910 Napoleon IV addressed his supreme war council where he stated that preparations should be made to turn Paris into “the greatest redoubt in Christendom” were like the Byzantine capital of old it would “hold out for years against the godless hordes!” Several of the advisors present argued however that with the frontline in Alsace-Lorraine collapsing and the renewed Coalition offensives in Brittany and Italy making progress the country would be completely overwhelmed in two to three months. Led by the capable Brigadier General Augustin Follet several officers present argued that after over three years of war, the Coalition blockade, and crippling food and ammunition shortages the nation and the people could not carry on the war through the winter. Upon hearing this it is said that Bonaparte flew into a rage and declared that any discussion doubting France’s victory would be considered treason.

On the evening of December 3, 1910, in what would be become known as the December Revolution, Brig. General Augustin Follet and his confederates launched their plan to topple the monarchy and bring the war to an end. Having cut communications to the Imperial Guard barracks on the outskirts of the city, Follet began distributing the contents of several of the Parisians armories to members of the republican underground under the command of Marcel Ames. Around 10:45pm the group of roughly 450 disaffected soldiers and armed citizens marched on the imperial residence at the Tuileries. After blowing the gates and a brief firefight Follet and Ames’s republicans gained entry into the palace’s courtyard, with his guards deserting him and no avenue of escape, the Emperor made one last attempt to calm the situation. Appearing on a balcony overlooking the courtyard, along with the Prince Imperial Lucien Bonaparte, Napoleon IV declared in a loud and defiant voice quoting his great-uncle “If any man would shoot his emperor he may do so now!” It would prove to be Napoleon IV’s last words as he and his son’s bodies were soon riddled by rifle fire from the mob who took up the chant Vive La Republique! With the Emperor dead, Paris descended in to open revolt for the next three days as hundreds of thousands of French citizens poured into the streets to fight against the gendarmerie and a few loyal imperial units. News of the Emperor’s death spread like wildfire through the remnants of the French Army who began deserting and surrendering en masse.

Last known photograph of Napoleon IV in civilian clothes
taken 2 days before his death
December 1, 1910 ​

End of the Great War

On December 7 with Paris secured, Marcel Ames proclaimed the existence of the Third French Republic on top of the pile of rubble that was once the gigantic equestrian statue of Napoleon I to an exuberant crowd of over a million Parisians. An armistice was signed between delegations from the new French Republic and the Coalition powers in the city of Reims two days later. After three years and three months of fighting, the largest and most destructive war in human history was finally over.

Victory celebrations in New York City
December 9, 1910​

 

[mjanes]

Now to see if there's any chance the final treaties are done well enough so as to prevent a WWII equivalent in this time line.

 

[zeppelin247]

what i am wondering is now the war is over what is the finaancial state of the allied powers, I mean is Britain as heavily in debt as it was in our time, now much of the Prussian and Italian economy was destroyed by the French invasions and is their any support ITTL Russia for communists are is the majority of the public supportive of the Tsar

 

[CELTICEMPIRE]

how will the aftermath of the war play out now?