The Union Forever: A TL

[jlckansas]

How important is Oil in this time line? You might see the US get some middle eastern "Protectorate" as a basis of this. Depending on where the known oil areas are in the Middle East you could see a US presence there.

Also a joint occupation of Capitals of countries, like Berlin after WWII, unitl things settle down.

 

[A.M. Turtle]

How important is Oil in this time line? You might see the US get some middle eastern "Protectorate" as a basis of this. Depending on where the known oil areas are in the Middle East you could see a US presence there.

Also a joint occupation of Capitals of countries, like Berlin after WWII, unitl things settle down.

Oil has yet to be discovered in Middle East and currently the US is knee deep in oil reserves. There is no reason for American puppets in the Middle East with nothing of value there (seen at the time).

 

[Andristan]

There's also the fact that oil isn't that major a strategic resource yet, only the most modern of warships run on it, so its not exactly in super high demand.
Again depending on when France is knocked out, the Ottomans could come out with a surprisingly large amount of territory left. But any already occupied part will go to somebody, not back to the Ottomans, i. e. the vast majority of their European territory.
I'd say for A-H, that maybe two countries come out, much diminished Hungary and Austria, without Galicia or Lodomeria, Transylvania and possibly Trentino

 

[Mac Gregor]

Peace in the Middle East ​

April-July, 1910​

Photograph from the aftermath of the Siege of Bagdad
June, 1910​

Kurdistan

As the Russians slogged their way into eastern Anatolia, the area’s Kurdish population rose in rebellion against their Turkish overlords. With Russian aid and support the Kurds were able to sweeping the Ottomans from the regions mountains terrain. While Coalition advances along the Black Sea proved to be slow and costly, and in Thrace nonexistent, most of Kurdistan was freed from Ottoman rule by the end of July, 1910.

Palestinian Blunder

Turkish Artillery at the Battle of Jerusalem
June, 1910​

Following the successful invasion of Egypt, Coalition forces embarked on an invasion of Ottoman controlled Palestine. Under British General Ian Hamilton, the Coalition force would run into a series of problems due to the harsh environment and lack of supplies. Although technically a Coalition victory the Battle of Gaza cost Hamilton over 10,000 casualties compared to the 5,400 suffered by his Turkish counterpart. The climax of the campaign came on June 11, 1910 during the Battle of Jerusalem when the Ottomans successfully repulsed a Coalition attempt to take the city. By the end of July, Coalition forces had fallen back as far as Beersheba in order to regroup and resupply.

Mesopotamia

While the Coalition suffered embarrassing reversals in Palestine, their offensive into Mesopotamia was far more successful. Pushing north from Kuwait in the early months of 1910, a Coalition force composed of mostly British and Commonwealth troops, travelled along the Tigris and Euphrates Rivers towards the city of Bagdad. Aided by large numbers of Arab rebels, the Coalition army under the command of Major General Robert McDougal fought and routed a disorganized Turkish force at the Battle of Kut. Coalition forces then went on to besiege Bagdad. After several weeks of fierce fighting, the city surrendered on June 28, 1910.

The Ottoman Empire exits the War

Despite some success in defending Palestine, the Kurdish Rebellion along with the fall of Bagdad proved to many in the Sultan’s service that continuing the war was hopeless. News of the collapse of Austria-Hungry in early July seemed only to confirm that assumption as the Russian Empire would now be able to turn its full attention south. On July 22, 1910 the ailing Sultan Abdul Hamid II was deposed by a palace coup. He was replaced by one of his western educated nephews who was installed as Sultan Abdulmecid II. Abdulmecid II and his reform minded band of supporters wasted no time in sending dignitaries to the Coaltion powers to request an armistice. Although there were several in the Russian government who wished to continue the war against the Turks, growing war weariness and pressure from Great Britain and the United States eventually made them accept. On August 12, 1910 an armistice between the Sublime Ottoman State and the Coalition of Free Nations was signed onboard the HMS Guardian. The armistice had three major stipulations, the immediate end of all hostilities, the halt of all troop movements, and for a formal peace treaty convention between the former belligerents to be signed in the following months. The Ottomans role in the Great War was over.

 

[Mac Gregor]

Here is a map of the Great War Belligerents as of August 1, 1910.

The Entente Impériale is in blue. The Coalition of Free Nations is in red. Entente gains are in light blue. Coaltion gains are in light red.

 

[FleetMac]

And another one bites the dust! Only a matter of time before France follows next...

 

[Alternatehistoryguy47]

France stands alone... now will Napoleon surrender? Or will he make the allies chase him into North Africa?

 

[Mac Gregor]

As ya'll probably know by now, France is going to lose. Although how exactly is yet to be seen. With that being said I would love to see some post war maps. Thanks for the feedback.

 

[Alternatehistoryguy47]

As ya'll probably know by now, France is going to lose. Although how exactly is yet to be seen. With that being said I would love to see some post war maps. Thanks for the feedback.

Any chance of Napoleon quitting before Coalition troops actually go into France?

If he pulls out now, France will remain literally untouched by the war and he'd be able to build up his forces again.

 

[Darth_Kiryan]

Jeez. France is not going to last much longer.

Bye bye Napoleonic Emperors and Empire. Hello Republic number...3 or 2? Whatever.

 

[A.M. Turtle]

Any chance of Napoleon quitting before Coalition troops actually go into France?

If he pulls out now, France will remain literally untouched by the war and he'd be able to build up his forces again.

It is far too late for this to happen. Prussia is going to out for blood and the other powers most likely want to end the possibility of France simply redeclaring war a few years down the road after rebuilding their forces.

 

[thekingsguard]

And then there was one...

 

[SavoyTruffle]

I predict a Congress of Vienna-style meeting to discuss the fate of France.

 

[IchBinDieKaiser]

My predictions: There will be a Valkyrie style coup in France. Napoleon IV will either be killed, or forced to abdicate. The conspirators then form an interim government and declare France a republic, and offer peace at almost any price.

After Math Europe: France will keep its pre-war borders, but be forced to pull out of everywhere else. A German empire will be formed with Prussia at the head. This german empire will contain all of the german empire land IOTL, along with the german speaking parts of AH, and Bohemia.

In the Balkans, Greece will expand to just about OTL borders. Bulgaria will be recognized as independent. The remainder of AH not added to the German empire will fragment into a bunch of smaller nations similar to OTL. Russia will try to set up a puppet government in Hungary, but Prussia will contest this. Ultimately Hungary will probably either vote for it's own monarch, or vote whether or not to become a republic.

Aftermath Africa: Tunisia will probably go to Italy, and maybe Libya. Egypt will be allowed to stay independent, though they might lose the canal. France will lose all of it's sub saharan colonies. Some will be given to the British, others will be given independence. Prussia will not receive anything in Africa because it did absolutely no fighting there.

Aftermath Middle East: A rump ottoman empire will keep constantinople because no one wants Russia to have free access to the Mediterranean. The Ottoman Empire will probably get to keep OTL turkey, along with Syria and Lebanon. Palistine will be put under some kind of Protectorate status under Britain, as will Mesopatamia. An "independent" Kurdistan will be established, although Russia will be pulling the strings in reality.

Aftermath the Americas and Pacific: First come first serve, except for maybe the french possesions near canada, those will probably go to Canada either way. French Guiana might be made a territory, or it might be made an commonwealth nation under the United States. The Philippines might share a joint commonwealth status with the US and Britain.

 

[Earl_of_Somerset]

Reasonable
Napoleon IV is forced to abdicate, then is sent off to St. Helena


Europe

• Francerewar except France loses Ascale -Lorraine to Prussia, and Corsica to Italy (Savoy and Nice may or may not be included)
• Austria Hungary: Loses Italian speaking areas to Italy, and all German Speaking areas (with the addition of Bohemia and Moravia possibly) Only Hungary will survive in reduced form and likely as a Republic, local minorites will also get thier own government to make sure that A-H never happens again
• Italy:Gains Corsica (maybe Nice and Savoy) from France, gains Trento and Julian March from A-H
• Prussia:Becomes master of Germany, recieves German Speaking areas, and maybe Bohemia and Moravia. Bavaria is annexed in a few years
• Great Britian:Nothing in the Contident, maybe an island or two in the Channel
• Russia:Annexes Galacia
• Greece:Gets Thessaly, Northern Epirus, Macedonia, and Western Thrace (maybe Eastern Thrace without Constantinople and demilitarized straits like OTL)
• Romania:Annexes Transylvania
• Bulgaria, Minor border gains with the Turks
• Turkey:Loss of Almost all European territory (OTL Eastern Thrace best, all but Constantinople Worse
• Bavaria:annexed to Prussia in a few years

Africa

• Italy gains Tunisia (possibly Eastern Algeria and Libya)
• British backed Puppet Egypt is made, with Control of Suez under Direct british control
• French Congo independent
• Sahara stays French along with all or most of Algeria
• a More favoruable British Border in West Africa, with more land under its control but not complete dominance of the region

Oceania

• French Indochina independent
• French New Guinea to Australia
• Minor French islands to New Zealand

America

• St. Pierre and Miquelon to Canada
• Panama Canal zone is given to America, who attempts to repair it (but likely fails)
• Rest of French America goes to America

Middle East

• British Dominated Mesopotamian State
• Mount Lebanon Independent (as to weaken Ottoman Prescence in the Levant)
• Kurdistan Independent
• Arabia takes unoccupied Remainder
• Russian Gains

 

[Earl_of_Somerset]

Now for ASB version....

Napoleon IV is exiled to Elba, then escapes back to france and manages to take control again, only to lose a battle in beligum

Europe

• Italy:Gets All Italian Speaking Areas of A-H, gets Savoy, Nice and Corsica from France, and recieves Dalmatia and Albania (except Northern Epirus)
• France:Loses Corsica, Nice, Savoy to Italy, Asclae, Lorraine and Franche-Comete (Modern Day French Departments) to Germany
• Greece:Recieves Macedonia, Thrace, Thessaly, Constantinople and the Agean Coast 100 Miles Deep.
• Prussia:Annexes All of Austria in A-H not going to Italy and Russia, then annexes Asclae, Lorraine and Franche Comte
• Russia Annexes Galacia and all of Hungary not going to Italy or Romania
• Romania-Annexes Transylvania from Hungary
• Bulgaria:Nothing

Africa:

• All of French Africa is given to the British and Italians
• Italy takes Algeria, Tunisia, and Libya
• British get Rest

America

• All French America goes to America

Oceania:

• All French lands there go to England or her Dominions

Middle East

• Ottoman Remnant in Anatolia
• British Puppet Levant and Mesopotamia
• Lebanon
• Kurdistan
• Greek Agean Coast
• Massive Arabian Expansion in the remainder

 

[Andristan]

In Europe:
A-H is broken in two, Hungary(post WWI OTL size) and Austria(modern day).

Prussia gets the south German states either annexed or federated like in OTL following Franco-Prussian war, Bohemia, and probably Alsace-Lorraine (depends on how far the French are pushed back before the end).

Romania gets Transylvania

Serbia gets part of the Banat and Bosnia/Herzegovinia(B-H)

Croats get own country w/ Trieste(maybe) and Fiume, parts of B-H.

Bulgaria gets borders close to OTL 1st Balkans war with regards to the Turks.

Montenegro gets part of Albania and B-H

Greece gets North Epirus, and basically OTL 1st Balkans borders, maybe more Aegean Islands.

Turks keep Constantinople and eastern Thrace(block on Russians)

Italy gets Savoy and Nice possibly Corsica and Trentino but not SudTyrol(either Prussian or Austrian), maybe Trieste(depends on how generous the Coalition feels and how well the Italians did militarily)

In Africa: probably this

• Italy gains Tunisia (possibly Eastern Algeria and Libya)
• British backed Puppet Egypt is made, with Control of Suez under Direct british control
• French Congo independent
• Sahara stays French along with all or most of Algeria
• a More favoruable British Border in West Africa, with more land under its control but not complete dominance of the region

In Middle East:
Ottomans keep most of their territory, lose de jure rule of Egypt to Brits,

Mesopotamia made mandate(or equivalent) for probably British.

Russia keeps its gains.

Arab free state (Saudi Arabia)

elsewhere, everyone keeps what they got.

 

[Plumber]

Middle East interests me most here. Britain's getting Egypt.

Of the Ottoman Empire, it seems the way things are going that Eastern Anatolia and Kurdistan are going to be Russian dominated and Mesopotamia will be British dominated.

If Britain wants to take away what was then just known as Syria (and today makes up Syria/Lebanon/Jordan/Palestine) then it will be united with Mesopotamia as a British-backed pan-Arab state. The Hejaz will probably be included in this too since the Hashemites were the keepers of the Hejaz. The only reason that this land was divided IOTL was because the French wanted to make Lebanon for some reason and wanted to control Syria.

More likely though, I can see Britain not really caring about the Arab Middle east. OTL they wanted a land route to India in addition to Suez; with them not even having Suez until now, they aren't likely to look upon alternate ways to India since they haven't had as much time to analyze things from a "well Suez secures India, how else can we protect India?" POV.

All in all the Ottomans are likely to keep East and West Thrace, greater Syria and maybe even the bulk of Mesopotamia (they'll probably lose Southern Iraq as it becomes part of a greater Kuwait). They will lose Kurdistan and the lands of Eastern Anatolia to the Russians though.

 

[Andristan]

I believe the French already had a unofficial presence in Lebanon(Orient Express) and in Syria which is why they wanted those places and to rival the Brits of course.
By the way, judging from the map, the Ottomans dont have Western Thrace, it would appear to be occupied by the Coalition, and I don't see any territory being given back, or at least very much.

 

[Mac Gregor]

update coming soon.